Which gun for self-defence/ home defence

[anandrxz]

Hi All,
anand here from mumbai, my apologies in adv incase i posted on a wrong forum - and kindly move it to a correct forum inthat case
ok , i am a very new to guns , i have a air gun at home which cost me Rs1300 , dunno if its branded. reading thru the faq my mundaire i now know that its a break barel kindof gun.
i dont find it powerful, it fires small hallow pointed pellets and they dont even penetrate thru wood.
i am buying a farmhouse in a remote location and need a gun which will give me some protection l. pls suggest something, i dont have a amr license.
the shop where i bought this air gun had another gun which is called thasni chi banduk in marathi, basically i think u stuff gunpowder and it had round ball bearing kindoff pellets. is this good ? and will it server my purpose and does it require license?
thanks,
Anand

[Sakobav]

Anand

The other gun you saw is probably a musket and it might require a license, other informed members can better advise you on the gun laws.

In my opinion the best thing would be to go for gun license and then purchase a handgun or gun depending upon your budget and needs. I know it can be a drag applying for a gun lic.

If possible try to post a picture of "thasni chi banduk " gun.

Best

[ai]

Hi!

Since you are new to guns as you mentioned, and sound likewise judging by your post (no offence intended, just being precise to highlight the seriousness of your issue), IMO it is best to make a conservative start.

I'd suggest you make a needs analysis of why you need a weapon and what you would use it for at the farm (protection from what/whom). If an airgun/air rifle serves your need, that would be a cheaper and easier start considering licences for firearms may not be easy to obtain.

There is a variety of air weapons to choose from- Air Pistols, Indian Air Rifles, powerful imported air rifles, and Pre Charged Pneumatic (PCP) air rifles that are very powerful and generally utilize a magazine for multiple shots.

A wealth of information on various type of weapons (airguns and firearms) is available in respective sections in this website.

Finally, consider going for a firearm only if you are certain you need it and can ensure safety in its use. It is an idea to see various news reports on the internet relating to misuse and mishaps with firearms, including someone shooting his lawn mover. Luckily, lawn movers don't shoot back!

[mundaire]

Airguns are not really much of a practical option for self-defence. If would suggest you go in for a shotgun license. If you own farmland you should not have a problem applying for one under "crop protection" or "self defence" as your stated need. More details on applying for an arms license can be found under the legal sub-section of the "knowledge base" here. A basic Indian made SBBL shotgun should cost you INR 5,000/- or less.

The other gun you have described is a muzzle loader of some de.scription. For this you will need an arms license for an SBML gun which can be issued from at the Tehsildar level itself. Considering your inexperience and also the fact that these are cumbersome to load I would not suggest going in for one of these. In a self defence situation you might find it impossible to reload one of these under the pressure of the situation.

Needless to say whichever gun you buy it will be useless (and more of a liability than an asset) unless you learn how to use it safely and effectively.

Am editing the subject and moving this thread to the "self defence" forum.

Cheers!
Abhijeet

[Risala]

For self defense on a farm house,cant go wrong with 12 Bore DBBL,load with Shaktiman HP's or slugs,else
Astram No 1.
You can pick up a local Indian double for under 20 K,will serve the purpose,off course you are going to have to get a Lic first.
HTH

[ai]

I don't see why someone who isn't even familiar with airguns, nor might be clear about what sort of "protection" he might need in a yet to be bought farmhouse should be advised to attempt acquiring a shotgun. Thinking two steps ahead, mishaps, wherever and however they occur, can only make it more difficult for subsequent grant of licences to others. Mr. Anand has used the word 'protection'- from what, we dont know. Of course, if it is from dacoits or terrorist, an airgun won't be much use!

Under the circumstances, I suggest an air weapon be used as a training tool before graduating to a shotgun.

I assume that there are no systems in place to verify whether an applicant is well versed with safety aspects and weapon handling before a licence is granted to him. I also assume that any licence won't be granted immidiately, and even if Mr. Anand's (or someone in a similar situation) decision is to go for a licence, he could use the time from application to issue of licence to learn safety aspects and gain related information. In the first place, the decision to go for a shotgun or similar should also be an educated choice. If Mr. Anand had clearly stated that he has a farmhouse, know the threats percieved, knows about weapons generally, and is therefore seeking the best weapon to acquire, I'd agree with you completely.

Since joining this forum recently, I've been impressed with the standards set herein. In tune with this, I feel what I suggested is the safest way forward in this particular case.

Regards.

[anandrxz]

Airguns are not really much of a practical option for self-defence. If would suggest you go in for a shotgun license. If you own farmland you should not have a problem applying for one under "crop protection" or "self defence" as your stated need. More details on applying for an arms license can be found under the legal sub-section of the "knowledge base" here. A basic Indian made SBBL shotgun should cost you INR 5,000/- or less.

The other gun you have described is a muzzle loader of some de.scription. For this you will need an arms license for an SBML gun which can be issued from at the Tehsildar level itself. Considering your inexperience and also the fact that these are cumbersome to load I would not suggest going in for one of these. In a self defence situation you might find it impossible to reload one of these under the pressure of the situation.

Needless to say whichever gun you buy it will be useless (and more of a liability than an asset) unless you learn how to use it safely and effectively.

Am editing the subject and moving this thread to the "self defence" forum.

Cheers!
Abhijeet

thanks for your help guys, i think you must be geting the same kindof questions agaiin and again from newbies and really appreciate your paitence with us!
ok some details on why i need a gun or rather why i think i need a gun.
1) nearest house from the place will be arnd 1-2 km away that too across a stream .. so not in shouting distance... so if a robber or criminal were to barge in i need something to scare them off . not that i have tons of cash lying around which they can rob but its scary to be cutoff from civilisation. phone and power supply is erractic in villages in maharashtra.Basically i will be engaged in farming in that place.
2) no real threat from wild animals and i dont believe in killin animals anyways, they are my friends
3) cost constraint : my budget would be around 10k.
4) like most of you pointed out , its best to get training , i hear there is a instritute in dadar - pls quide me , can they teach me to handle a weapon ( dont know which type yet - you guys have to help me)
5) about that "thasni chi banduk" yes it had a single barrel and the shop owner told me its used for hunting pigs etc, but if it requires a license i am not sure i want it.
rest assured am not a trigger happy crazy person who would fire indiscrimately.. life is precious be it man or animal , but hey even my life is precious and am trying to protect it
Anand.

[to_saptarshi]

Hi Anand,

I think, you have very strong reason for applying for a gun license and I am sure authorities will not turn down your application. In my opinion a 12ga DBBL will best suits your needs and you may find Indian make shotgun which comes within your budget. The art of firing a gun is no rocket science...all you just need is common sense, responsibility and basic understanding of gun safety and how a gun works.

Regards
Saptarshi

[Sakobav]

ai

You do have a point but required sensibilities and safety practices for an Airgun and Shotgun/rifle are the same. I started shooting a .22 rifle way before I ever had an airgun.

Anand

Go for the license and you have the choices between a Single barrel or double barrel shotgun.

Best

[TenX]

Hi Anand.
"i dont find it powerful, it fires small hallow pointed pellets and they dont even penetrate thru wood. " - Of course, most air guns dont penetrate wood. They are powered either thru compressed springs, compressed air or CO2. I also know of some .22s which dont penetrate wood at 50m
Here is a quick brief for you to understand guns: (pardon if you aleady know)
Calibre:
The guage of the pellet or bullet that the gun uses. This is about the size of the inner hole of the barrel thru which the pellet/bullet shoots.

Air Rifle/Pistol:
Powered thru Springs, Compressed Air, CO2, etc. These dont need a license and can be bought directly. They shoot only air pellets (The 'hallow pointed pellets') that come in different weights and shapes. They will mostly be of the .177 or .22 calibre - which is the diameter of the cross-section of the widest part of the pellet, in centimeters. Some are powerful and some not. They come in types of single-loaders and magazine type. If you use a magazine, you can shoot multiple shots one after the other. A single-shot would mean you would have to re-load the pellet every time you fire.
Cost vary between 1.5K to 10K (Indian-make) and upto around a lakh for specialized Imported stuff. Pellets cost lttle - about few tens of rupees for a hundred of them.

SBBL (Single Barrel) and DBBL (Double Barrel) shotguns.
Powered thru a combustion that happens within the bullet/slug, which is loaded; requires a license. These are powerful guns which use one or several balls within the bullet/slug, which is fired when the explosion within the bullet happens. All guns which have an explosion mechanism to propel the projectile (bullet/slug) thru the barrel require a license. These guns can kill and should be used very carefully. SBBL can have one slug loaded and fired, whereas the DBBL can have two slugs loaded fired one after the other (thanks to a double trigger mechanism). The older type of such rifles are Muzzle loaders, which require you to 'pack' ammunition and balls fom the front end of the barrel (muzzle). These take a good amount of time to reload and use. The reloading part is also pretty long, and I would personally advise against it.
The SBBL/DBBL starts from about 5K (Indian-make) to several lakhs. Shotgun slugs cost pretty much, and I think the least cost would be about 40 INR for one.

Rifles/Pistols/Revolvers
Powered thru a combustion that happens within the bullet, which is loaded, and requires a license. Theyu come in different calibres of .22, .32 etc. Some calibres are called 'Prohibited Bore', which means the calibre of that gun cannot be legally used by civilians. Again, the explosion occuring within the bullet shoots off the front end of the bullet (projectile) thru the barrel.
Rifles are the long ones with a long barrel. Pistols and Revolvers are hand guns with shorter barrels. revolvers have a barrel in which bullets are loaded and they 'Revolve' after every shot, to place the next bullet ready to fire. Pistols have a magazine which is spring loaded, and the gas caused thru explosion of the previous shot moves a 'piston' kind of mechanism to eject the shell of the fired bullet and load the next one ready for fire. BOth Pistols and Revolvers can have a loading capacity of 5 to many shots, depending on the length of the magazine and the calibre of the bullet used.
Costs vary pretty much from about 35K (If you are lucky) for a second hand one to several lakhs. Bullets cost pretty much and depends on the calibre and make. A very rough idea would be from 15 INR to about 70 INR for each. I dont have a very clear picture of the market costs of bullets, as I practice at the range, where it is subsidized.

Now, based on this, you decide if you would prefer a long rifle or a hand gun. Also, in a budget of 10K, a SBBL is your best bet, in case, you decide to go for a license.
I would suggest you discuss more on this, talk to a few people who already own guns, before taking a call.
I hope the information was useful. I am sure you will see more additions ans corrections from other Gurus on the forum.

Cheers....

[perazzi]

TenX - Put him onto someone locally who can give him more practical lessons rather than just theory. It may be more meaningful & helpful.

Cheers Rohit.

[diskaon]

Hi Anand.
"i dont find it powerful, it fires small hallow pointed pellets and they dont even penetrate thru wood. " - Of course, most air guns dont penetrate wood. They are powered either thru compressed springs, compressed air or CO2. I also know of some .22s which dont penetrate wood at 50m
Here is a quick brief for you to understand guns: (pardon if you aleady know)
Calibre:
The guage of the pellet or bullet that the gun uses. This is about the size of the inner hole of the barrel thru which the pellet/bullet shoots.

Air Rifle/Pistol:
Powered thru Springs, Compressed Air, CO2, etc. These dont need a license and can be bought directly. They shoot only air pellets (The 'hallow pointed pellets') that come in different weights and shapes. They will mostly be of the .177 or .22 calibre - which is the diameter of the cross-section of the widest part of the pellet, in centimeters. Some are powerful and some not. They come in types of single-loaders and magazine type. If you use a magazine, you can shoot multiple shots one after the other. A single-shot would mean you would have to re-load the pellet every time you fire.
Cost vary between 1.5K to 10K (Indian-make) and upto around a lakh for specialized Imported stuff. Pellets cost lttle - about few tens of rupees for a hundred of them.

SBBL (Single Barrel) and DBBL (Double Barrel) shotguns.
Powered thru a combustion that happens within the bullet/slug, which is loaded; requires a license. These are powerful guns which use one or several balls within the bullet/slug, which is fired when the explosion within the bullet happens. All guns which have an explosion mechanism to propel the projectile (bullet/slug) thru the barrel require a license. These guns can kill and should be used very carefully. SBBL can have one slug loaded and fired, whereas the DBBL can have two slugs loaded fired one after the other (thanks to a double trigger mechanism). The older type of such rifles are Muzzle loaders, which require you to 'pack' ammunition and balls fom the front end of the barrel (muzzle). These take a good amount of time to reload and use. The reloading part is also pretty long, and I would personally advise against it.
The SBBL/DBBL starts from about 5K (Indian-make) to several lakhs. Shotgun slugs cost pretty much, and I think the least cost would be about 40 INR for one.

Rifles/Pistols/Revolvers
Powered thru a combustion that happens within the bullet, which is loaded, and requires a license. Theyu come in different calibres of .22, .32 etc. Some calibres are called 'Prohibited Bore', which means the calibre of that gun cannot be legally used by civilians. Again, the explosion occuring within the bullet shoots off the front end of the bullet (projectile) thru the barrel.
Rifles are the long ones with a long barrel. Pistols and Revolvers are hand guns with shorter barrels. revolvers have a barrel in which bullets are loaded and they 'Revolve' after every shot, to place the next bullet ready to fire. Pistols have a magazine which is spring loaded, and the gas caused thru explosion of the previous shot moves a 'piston' kind of mechanism to eject the shell of the fired bullet and load the next one ready for fire. BOth Pistols and Revolvers can have a loading capacity of 5 to many shots, depending on the length of the magazine and the calibre of the bullet used.
Costs vary pretty much from about 35K (If you are lucky) for a second hand one to several lakhs. Bullets cost pretty much and depends on the calibre and make. A very rough idea would be from 15 INR to about 70 INR for each. I dont have a very clear picture of the market costs of bullets, as I practice at the range, where it is subsidized.

Now, based on this, you decide if you would prefer a long rifle or a hand gun. Also, in a budget of 10K, a SBBL is your best bet, in case, you decide to go for a license.
I would suggest you discuss more on this, talk to a few people who already own guns, before taking a call.
I hope the information was useful. I am sure you will see more additions ans corrections from other Gurus on the forum.

Cheers....

I think TenX can come out with "IFG for Dummies ver. 0.22"

This is soo simple .. one can't go wrong with this. All you ahve to do is read it twice and then chances of taking a wrong call are minimized. .

Kudos to TenX

[diskaon]

Dear Anandrxz,

welcome to the forum... and safe shooting.

diskaon

[TenX]

Diskaon,
Actually, some of the information I had is from a book I had once started to write for new joinees in KSRA. I dont know when I will finish it, but it will have enough information about guns, training, training for INdian events, some tips etc - which is a one shot quick guide of what information I collected over several years. I completely understand the disorientation due to lack of knowledge in new-comers (I was one, a decade back), and hope to help out in this regard.

Perazzi,
I am in Karnataka, Bangalore, and would have invited him to our own club, if we were geographically close. But Anandrxz if from Mumbai, and thats why I requested him to get in touch with local gun-owners and shooting enthus to go ahead

[anandrxz]

Hi Anand.
"i dont find it powerful, it fires small hallow pointed pellets and they dont even penetrate thru wood. " - Of course, most air guns dont penetrate wood. They are powered either thru compressed springs, compressed air or CO2. I also know of some .22s which dont penetrate wood at 50m
Here is a quick brief for you to understand guns: (pardon if you aleady know)
Calibre:
The guage of the pellet or bullet that the gun uses. This is about the size of the inner hole of the barrel thru which the pellet/bullet shoots.

Air Rifle/Pistol:
Powered thru Springs, Compressed Air, CO2, etc. These dont need a license and can be bought directly. They shoot only air pellets (The 'hallow pointed pellets') that come in different weights and shapes. They will mostly be of the .177 or .22 calibre - which is the diameter of the cross-section of the widest part of the pellet, in centimeters. Some are powerful and some not. They come in types of single-loaders and magazine type. If you use a magazine, you can shoot multiple shots one after the other. A single-shot would mean you would have to re-load the pellet every time you fire.
Cost vary between 1.5K to 10K (Indian-make) and upto around a lakh for specialized Imported stuff. Pellets cost lttle - about few tens of rupees for a hundred of them.

SBBL (Single Barrel) and DBBL (Double Barrel) shotguns.
Powered thru a combustion that happens within the bullet/slug, which is loaded; requires a license. These are powerful guns which use one or several balls within the bullet/slug, which is fired when the explosion within the bullet happens. All guns which have an explosion mechanism to propel the projectile (bullet/slug) thru the barrel require a license. These guns can kill and should be used very carefully. SBBL can have one slug loaded and fired, whereas the DBBL can have two slugs loaded fired one after the other (thanks to a double trigger mechanism). The older type of such rifles are Muzzle loaders, which require you to 'pack' ammunition and balls fom the front end of the barrel (muzzle). These take a good amount of time to reload and use. The reloading part is also pretty long, and I would personally advise against it.
The SBBL/DBBL starts from about 5K (Indian-make) to several lakhs. Shotgun slugs cost pretty much, and I think the least cost would be about 40 INR for one.

Rifles/Pistols/Revolvers
Powered thru a combustion that happens within the bullet, which is loaded, and requires a license. Theyu come in different calibres of .22, .32 etc. Some calibres are called 'Prohibited Bore', which means the calibre of that gun cannot be legally used by civilians. Again, the explosion occuring within the bullet shoots off the front end of the bullet (projectile) thru the barrel.
Rifles are the long ones with a long barrel. Pistols and Revolvers are hand guns with shorter barrels. revolvers have a barrel in which bullets are loaded and they 'Revolve' after every shot, to place the next bullet ready to fire. Pistols have a magazine which is spring loaded, and the gas caused thru explosion of the previous shot moves a 'piston' kind of mechanism to eject the shell of the fired bullet and load the next one ready for fire. BOth Pistols and Revolvers can have a loading capacity of 5 to many shots, depending on the length of the magazine and the calibre of the bullet used.
Costs vary pretty much from about 35K (If you are lucky) for a second hand one to several lakhs. Bullets cost pretty much and depends on the calibre and make. A very rough idea would be from 15 INR to about 70 INR for each. I dont have a very clear picture of the market costs of bullets, as I practice at the range, where it is subsidized.

Now, based on this, you decide if you would prefer a long rifle or a hand gun. Also, in a budget of 10K, a SBBL is your best bet, in case, you decide to go for a license.
I would suggest you discuss more on this, talk to a few people who already own guns, before taking a call.
I hope the information was useful. I am sure you will see more additions ans corrections from other Gurus on the forum.

Cheers....

thanks TenX! really helpful... i did some googling based on your inputs - i was under impression that a shotgun and rifle is same thing. now i know the difference - shsotgun fires pellets - multiple at a time and rifles fire bullets
.ya i think SSBL seems to fit my bill... given the cost and other factors.
if anyone has details of training center in dadar (mumbai) pls let me know.
license will talk to some villagers - they must have some contacts to get me thru.

thanks All, owe you one.,will let you know time and again abt my progress ...!
Anand.