IOF 315 rifle and cartridge

[shahid]

Thanks Abhijeet.

S far quite a few valuable insights have come it, and a member like kuduae joining our forums and discussions is really an asset.

My sole interest is shooting sports and knowledge development on the subject, personal attacks or bickering / reply back to bickerings do not interest me at all for they are of no use.

The attitudes and public behaviour of penpusher Sidhu or Grumpy is their own private matter of no concern to me.

My posts here will strictly confine to sports only and to encourage knowledgeable people on their articles posted.

[eljefe]

Yup, 4 stars for you Abhijeet!

A long time ago, I was also told that the 303 case with the neck blown upto 8mm is the platform for the 315 IOFB.
I ran with this statement for quite a while, until another version was popped in about the Goan/ Portugese influence and the 7.92mm Mauser WW2 take off. I did see and handle the 7.92 rifle and cartridge and found them about as similar as the proverbial chalk and cheese
Afraid, inspite of having handled so many rifles, I have only dim memories of a 315 my father bought and sold ( about 30-35 years ago) for non performance. NOw if only handloading was allowed, we could see the true potential of a pimped up 315 IOFB

[dev]

After all these discussions it may seem that we'll be better off waiting for the 30 06, since it hasn't been invented here. Or now has it???


Dev

[eljefe]

By the time it comes out, it will be ! Now imagine a bollywood special "thutty" -shoots all day without running dry,use any ol ammo lying around (yup 12 bore included ) and the gnats 'whatsit' at 300m too.
When ever taken away by a baddie, will magically spring back into owners hands.
Oh, the safety works too.

[shahid]

The performance, build quality or accuracy / reliability of the IOF .315 is never up to the mark. But being the sole centrefire made in India for Civilian sales, we had to compromise and do with it like many other compromises and adjustments Indians have made in the past.

News of the IOF 30-06 is eagerly awaited. When finally released it will appear with an MS action which is one of the best designs apart from Mauser action or the pre 64 WIn action.

Lets see hiw the quality is and how it performs.

Another development is that now there's an attachment available to fix telescopic ssights on the IOF .315, a sort of clamp that houses telescope rings.

[dev]

But Shahid are you seriously planning to buy one?
Will the thuty oh six also have rails?

Dev

[eljefe]

Shahid, its not the design.Its the TRANSLATION; by the gold medal winning turners in IOF who head the R&D bureau!
Ask any user of the 5.56INSAS...
If tolerances and metallurgy of 315 are upheld, why not?
I'd like to pimp up a 315 , bed, scope, wood, metal, work up a decent load...I'm sure it can do better! Austro-hungarian or martian- as long as its technically sound and cosmetically acceptable, most importantly, the freedom to do it.
Like in the old days, Weber twin carbs for the rally ambassador cars were a drool worthy item!
But the IOF are still seemingly stuck in the 'control raj' days of booking a vespa when the daughter was born

Ifv you see the breathtaking speed and quality of construction of the metro in Delhi, and 3 min later, the heart breaking jugaad of some so called 'center of excellence' it makes me wonder-whether I am living in the same universe or are there flashes of a non virtual 'second life' happening here

[mundaire]

A long time ago, I was also told that the 303 case with the neck blown upto 8mm is the platform for the 315 IOFB.

Asif, this is the exact same misconception I laboured under till very recently! I'd imagine that this belief is quite widespread, and the fact that the IOF .315 is based on the smellie action AND uses a rimmed cartridge is a contributing factor to the genesis and spread of this myth. After all the single MOST recognisable bolt action rifle in India IS STILL the good 'ol smellie in three knot three cal... thanks in no small part to the NCC arms training that many have been through...

Cheers!
Abhijeet

[eljefe]

Good that this topic is re stoked, Abhijeet,
After all the fur has flown, a lot of facts also come to the fore.
So round 2 anyone? I would like to see some more R&D aka investigation into the non darwinian origin of the iofb 315.

[shahid]

I would very much like to lay my hands on this contraption and try fitting a scope on IOF .315, if it works it would greatly enhance the accuracy of the .315.

30-06, if and when it comes is based on MS action, which is one of the best, besides Mauser action or pre 64 Win action.

WHy did the IOF make 8mm x 50 R in India ? Was it used by British / Indian armed forces or was it exported out of here ? or were many 8 x 50 R rifles in civilian use in India before ?

[eljefe]

If you want a scope mount, here's a different one!:
http://www3.sympatico.ca/shooters/ScopeMount.htm
I saw a 315 with scope in about 78 or 79. It bnelonged to Don Anderson, the 'famous' Shikari Kenneth Anderson's son, in bangalore
He had added to the comb height and mounted a scope.

[shahid]

Thanks Asif.

THis can work besides the one being sold in India itself which screws on from the left side only with 2 screws ( I guess, maybe more bindings are there ).

I need to check how it performs after 10 to 12 shots are fired.

Donald Anderson of course, is he still there in Banglore ? A sportsman of his calibre uses a .315 ? Maybe it was one of his many rifles.

His dad Kenneth Anderson had a WInchester .405 and also used a 450/400 on many occasions.

[Mack The Knife]

I'd like to pimp up a 315 , bed, scope, wood, metal, work up a decent load...I'm sure it can do better!

z375 on here has done all of this (not sure if he worked on the load) to his friend's IOF .315 and is pleased as punch with the downrange end results. Rope him into the discussion.

[Grumpy]

The business of BSA chambering rifles for two different 8mm cartridges really worries me and I`m not prepared to believe that they - BSA - would mark both of them with the simple designation `8mm` - that would be too stupid. I`m convinced that the importers - and possibly the proof houses - were responsible for that debacle......if, of corse, it actually exists.

I see no reason why a `pimped-up` IOF .315 shouldn`t perform very well - especially if treated to a full accurising job. Logically it would make sense to rechamber for the 8x56R Mannlicher ...... but only if ammunition is available in India AND if the action is capable of taking the increased pressure......which no-one knows.
It is a fact that IOF COULD make decent firearms - witness the Ishapore ( Lee Enfield ) 7.62x51 which was built on their L-E No 1 MK III. No British made No 1 MK III could handle the pressure of the 7.62 NATO. The finish might not have been up to the standard of the British made rifle but the steel employed was superior.

Oh dear..... Here we go again ! :
Shahid, the reasons for their being `original` 8x50R rifles in India has already been discussed in this thread. Like I said - you don`t appear to read anything that doesn`t originate in your own ramblings.
As far as the new IOF 30-06 is concerned, one thing that is for certain is that it is NOT based on a Mannlicher Schoenauer action. Apart from anything else an M-S action would be incredibly expensive to build. Anyway, the pictures of the new rifle show that it is nothing like a M-S.
The rifle is a superficial clone of the Sauer 200-202 but I very much doubt that it is an actual clone. The main feature of the Sauer 200/202 is that it has a removable barrel system achieved by locking the bolt directly into the barrel. A system of manufacture that does NOT allow for poor tolerances or inexpensive production......the consequences of which would be incredibly dangerous. I think that we`ll find that the new rifle is designed to look like a Sauer 200/202 ( or any of the other slab sided, two piece stock rifles such as the Krico or Chapuis...........even the Blaser R93 although that is a very different design of rifle ) but with conventional lock-up.
Of course I could be wrong in which case the new rifle is bound to be offered in calibres other than the 30-06 as that is the whole point of the Sauer 200/202 `modular` system.

[eljefe]

thanks Mack The Knife, will rope him in , hopefully he can show us how the 315 can be made to perform!
Grumpy, no go on the rechambering bit-max we could do is take a sulphur or cerosafe casting and see what it looks like-to do up the rough spots!:(
as for the new sauer 200 clone, I wonder if the chaps at iofb are being a bit too ambitious to achieve a multicaliber platform?seriously doubt it.
Shahid-Don had 3 weapons that time, besides the scoped 315, there was an IOF 12 double and a 423 mauser. I handled all 3 guns and also quite distinctly remember a broken stock he showed us, belonged to a double he said, which had been given the 'brush off' by a charging bison.All very Beau Brummel stuff, i can assure you, to a trio of 10th grade kids.
What was very impressive was a whole gallery of pics-in a room about 20x40 all 3 walls were covered with shikar /game pics!Dont know his whereabouts, maybe gasram can tell us?