Experts suggest ban on heavy calibre guns due to Maoists

[Rudranath]

Maoists use legally-made arms

Maoists mostly use legally manufactured ammunition in the State, according to ballistic experts at the AP Forensic Science Laboratory.

As there is no ban on 12 bore and 8 mm calibre weapons and ammunition even after prohibition of hunting, Maoists in the State are freely buying firearms in the black market.

An independent study done by the ballistic experts found that the ammunition used by the Naxalites is also freely available on the black market.

Dr Swaroop Vedanand of APFSL said, "The data available with us indicates that Naxals are predominantly using 8 mm rifles and 12 bore guns. We have examined 880 cases spanning five years. Naxals use both country-made weapons and firearms made by armament companies. But most of the ammunition is legally made."

"While the government imposed a ban on hunting, it is still issues licenses even for heavy calibre rifles. Since there are no controls on the sale of ammunition for these weapons, more country-made firearms are being manufactured with chambers for legally available ammunition. These firearms are also falling into the hands of criminals," Dr Vedanand said.

A senior police official said, "These type of weapons are mostly used by security guards. They get a quota of, say, 500 bullets at a specific interval, which is much more than they need. Some of these guards sell the ammunition to illegal arms dealers who in turn sell it to the Maoists."

"Special calibre firearms like Thomson submachine guns and Mauser pistols were also seized from the Maoists. This indicates that the Naxals have access to foreign sources from where they are procuring these firearms," Dr Vedanand said.

Arms seized from the Naxals in the past five years were sent to APFSL for examination. The forensic scientists found that 674 weapons of the 1,252 they examined were manufactured by ordnance companies and 578 were country-made.

Experts suggested that the government consider a ban on heavy calibre firearms. APFSL director O.Narasimha Murthy said the scientists would present the research at the national forensic conference in New Delhi next week.

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If the so called "heavy calibre guns" are banned as the report suggests How will it affect us (the members of this board) and other responsible gun owners?!

[Hunter]

]If the heavy calibre guns are banned as the report suggests How Will It Affect Us(The members on this board)?[/b]

One more nail on the coffin..............

[shahid]

Let them know of the first hand experience.

When Maoists fired at me in 2001 Jan, the weapons were AKs, Army SLRs 7.62 mm, Chinese infantory weapons, RPG rockets, .303 rifles. And they don't know how to shoot.

On this context, issueing weapons to all Indian Police and paramilitary forces should be banned.

[Hunter]

My God Shahid...the Maoist came after u with Aks Rpg's etc.....U must have really pissed them off!!!!

[Risala]

Since when were 12 G and 8 mm considered heavy cal

It is very evident that the people at APFSL dont know what they are

talking about.

It is a well known fact that almost all the Naxals carry Mil spec

weapons,which they either capture or procure clandestinely.

An odd one might use a 12 G or a .315,but these are absolutely usless

for their style of operations.

Such BS should have little or no effect.

[shahid]

They are regularly known to attack police stations and outposts in Bihar and loot their weapons. DOes this mean stop arming our police ? Utter rubbish.

THe buggers are actually cowards. THey shoot unarmed innocent villagers. In our case they were firing from 400 yards or beyond, afraid to come close. Nevertheless it was dangerous with all this hot lead flying around in the air.

Our party had a 9 mm Bren ( with our security personnel from Bihar Police ), 2 x .38 service revolvers from our bodyguards, 1x 30-06 rifle, 1 x .22 LR, ad 5 x 12 Ga shotguns with very few cartridges.

We did not fire back even a single round but just ran. THey fired about 70 rounds in all, the stupid jackasses.

[Hunter]

Hi Shahid,

Please check your Pm(private message) and reply via email to me.

Many thanks

[shahid]

And talking of heavy, a real haevy calbre is .458 lott, .45 mag for a handgun, 4 bore shotguns, 2 pounder cannonds, .50 sharps rifle.

THe Maoist are yet to discover the delights of these.

Also the heavies include HMG, which they have, chinese make while our Paramilitary forces do not.

.577 Gibbs licences should be issued to civilians rather in infested areas to blow off the insurgents.

[Hunter]

We sometimes wonder where does this thinking come from.If the crime graph is rising-ban firearms from the law abiding masses so that they cannot protect themselves. Its like saying the floodwaters are rising lets start banning boats!

[Pran]

On this context, issueing weapons to all Indian Police and paramilitary forces should be banned.

Was reminded of this reality show by a TV channel where the TV crew found cops(in Bangalore) locking the station from inside and on being asked why they did that a sleepy constable replied-"We don't want people stealing our rifles"

Pran

[eljefe]

Old argument- illegal diversion of LEGAL ammunition is attributed to a rise in insurgency...
What about the govt agencies' inability to contrtol the situation?
Policemen are trained to maintain law and Order and crime control, not fight insurgents in quick and dirty jungle warfare.So the respective state govts will dilly dally to show that they are in control, as policing is a state jurisdiction.
What about castration for all males to prevent rape? sounds logical as per the forensic scientists...
Ban cars, they cause more deaths than all the insurgenies in the country!

[shahid]

If anti naxal insurgency group is to be formed, i.e the Govt. is really serious then a crack team of commandos, with proper intelligence gathering, comm network, helicopter gunships, anti mine vehicles, minesweepers, sniper rifle trained personnel and local area informer network needs to be formed.

On a serious front, naxals can be wiped out within two years, but does the govt want this ? I don't think so.

THere is an old law, he who controls the land at night under darkness wins the war.

THese naxals operate on foot, take refuge in village huts, move from village to village in darkness and regroup at prearranged positions. When they conduct an attack say on the Jehanabad Jail in 2005, within 30 minutes of the operation they were on 3600 different tracks on a 360 degree circle from Jehanabad.

Newsteams reached 2 hours after the incedent and Police after 4 hours.

An attack helicopeter group would be there in 12 minutes, with night vision and heat seeking thermal imaging radars on the helicopter gunships scan the area in radial waves and shoot those carrying weapons and identified foe in the image. A 30 % strike rate of a 100 insurgents would discourage them to regroup for a long time.

Citizen volunteers armed for counter insurgency with local area knowledge need to be picked up by these attack gunships within minutes for local guidance. THe moment insurgents are spotted on Jungle tracks the helicopter gunsio 24 mm machine gun cuts the naxal in 2 halves.

But instead the govt debates, for which party can these naxal controlled votes be garnered ? How to turn them ?

Why is a party like CPMM - not CPM but this is radical CP marxist Lenniist allowed to contest elections when they are insurgents ? What about IPF, Indian peoples front, how is their election application passed ?

[hamiclar01]

An attack helicopeter group would be there in 12 minutes, with night vision and heat seeking thermal imaging radars on the helicopter gunships scan the area in radial waves and shoot those carrying weapons and

My My, that's more Tom Clancy than I can shake a finger at . But who will rappel out of the Blackhawks.....surely not Bihar police vardi dhari baton holders

You have heard of the Jaffna university fiasco of 1987? i presume. the 13th Sikh LI ...does that ring a bell?

[shahid]

There have been some very effective and successful anti insurgency operations by the IPKF during those years.

We do have some very elite scouts and strike troops in many battalions of the Indian Army ans also in CISF, ITBP, BSF, CRPF, and regiments like Jat, Sikh Rifles, J & K rifles, Gurkha Rifles, Bihar & Orissa Corps, Army sappers for such operations. Need is for political will to control insurgency.

As for our Bihar police, they were the first to run away when the naxals opened fire on us. I asked the sub inspector to take my 12 Ga and give me the sten gun. He said do not shoot sir, just run.

During the naxal attack on Jehanabad Jail where the scoundrels managed to release some of their rank, our Bihar police elite on duty could be seen in Lungis and rubber sleepers, with issues like country liqeor and some local easy virtue preoccupying their minds rather than fear naxals for some time.

[Risala]

[/quote]

You have heard of the Jaffna university fiasco of 1987? i presume. the 13th Sikh LI ...does that ring a bell?

[/quote]

It was 10 Para Cdo,now called 10 Para SF,they knew what they were going into,the odds were stacked

against them.

Our party had a 9 mm Bren ( with our security personnel from Bihar Police ), 2 x .38 service revolvers from our bodyguards, 1x 30-06 rifle, 1 x .22 LR, ad 5 x 12 Ga shotguns with very few cartridges.

Bren's are chambered for 7.62 or .303 not 9 mm