Colt 1911 - Thumb safety question

[mundaire]

Hi,

I've recently replaced the thumb safety lever on my Colt 1911A1. The problem with the older safety lever was that it would not "hold" at times and with the thumb safety on and the pistol firmly gripped in your hand, on pulling the trigger the thumb safety would occasionally drop and the hammer would fall, as if there was no safety engaged!

This problem has disappeared with the new thumb safety lever, however another problem seems to have surfaced - on engaging the thumb safety it is now impossible to disengage it unless one uses ones nail to first depress the safety lock plunger and simultaneously use one's thumb to depress the thumb safety!

It seems like I obviously need to stone or file the lever in some way to enable smooth operation. My question is - what would be the correct method to follow and how much and where all do I file away?

I have recently also replaced all of the springs (except the recoil spring & firing pin spring) and pins in the gun with new ones (using a Wolff rebuild kit). Don't think it should have any bearing on the above problem, but mentioning it anyway, just in case one of the new springs could be the cause of the problem...

The new thumb safety lever used is on this page - part no. 560-453-601

Cheers!
Abhijeet

[Mark]

First try removing the spring in the plunger tube and turning it end-for-end.

[mundaire]

Hi Mark,

Thanks for the quick response - I just tried flipping the spring over... but no luck Do you think the problem could be with the spring?

Cheers!
Abhijeet

[shahid]

IS this problem occuring while firing single action / double action or both. In my 1911 it occurs only when firing single action, the hammer drops without firing.

[penpusher]

IS this problem occuring while firing single action / double action or both. In my 1911 it occurs only when firing single action, the hammer drops without firing.

A GI issue 1911 double action Must be something special.Why do I get this feeling that you know as much about this as I know about building a spaceship.

[cottage cheese]

The problem is fairly common in well used and perhaps worn parts that have a spring plunger mating surface.

The problem(well... not really a big problem) is when either of two things happen:
1. The plunger's round head is worn to the point that they are out of shape- often takes for of an extra 'nipple'. This interferes with the smooth movement of the parts in question, especially when the 'nipple' wedges in the detent. Had this same problem with a couple of seized M16A1s in the local SB Armour. Simply replaced the plunger with a small drill bit shaped in a lathe. Worked like a charm.

2. The opposite has happened and the detent is out of shape and ruts the plunger in deeper or irregular depressions. In your case the safety catch is new so this question doesn't arise.

Your problem could be more to do with generation mismatch.
Your plunger is probably contoured for an older production run of 1911's. While your safety catch, if procured new, is certainly a current generation catch. There could be subtle differences in the contours. Plus if your catch is new so, the cuts and contours are crisp and deliberately a little in excess of dimensions to allow fitting (As in smithing) to all generations of 1911s.

I suspect the detent is fairly deep as a result. If you dont mind refinishing that particular part, go ahead and get it stoned or perhaps even slightly filed. Also check the shape of the plunger head. Make sure its a consistent 'round'. If its conical, it could be causing the sticking.

[cottage cheese]

IS this problem occuring while firing single action / double action or both. In my 1911 it occurs only when firing single action, the hammer drops without firing.

A GI issue 1911 double action Must be something special.Why do I get this feeling that you know as much about this as I know about building a spaceship.

[shahid]

Single action refers to - firing with the hammer cocked back for more accuracy not pressing the trigger without cocking the hammer.

[cottage cheese]

Single action refers to - firing with the hammer cocked back for more accuracy not pressing the trigger without cocking the hammer.

That, we are quite aware of, but the 1911 is a single action. Double action doesn't figure here unless its a Seecamp mod job or a Para Ordnance DA

[mundaire]

A GI issue 1911 double action Must be something special.

Nothing special... just clarifying for the sake of explicitly establishing the "generation" this particular 1911 pistol belongs to...

CC,

The plunger is brand new as well. The Wolff rebuild kit comes with all pins and springs, except for the recoil spring, extractor, firing pin and firing pin spring...

I did try to do a visual match of both the older safety and the new one, prior to installing the new one. The new one does have a sharper edge - where it passes the plunger "on the way up" (engaging the safety). I took this to be the reason why the older safety was malfunctioning (worn out edges as you said), however it is this edge which seems to be causing it to "stick" to the safety on position...

Will try to post pictures of both the old and new safety levers here.

Cheers!
Abhijeet

[mundaire]

Single action refers to - firing with the hammer cocked back for more accuracy not pressing the trigger without cocking the hammer.

That, we are quite aware of, but the 1911 is a single action. Double action doesn't figure here unless its a Seecamp mod job or a Para Ordnance DA

Shahid,

As CC says... the 1911 is (almost always, except for certain custom jobs or non-Colt models) a SA only pistol... the GI/ Government model is specifically a "Single Action Only" design...

HTH

Cheers!
Abhijeet

[Grumpy]

Abhihjeet, do you remember a conversation in which I said that even `drop-in` parts tend to require some fitting ?
You just have to check for burrs on the side of the safety and that you have a nice radius on the end of the plunger. Just don`t get carried away.......and I suggest that you use a little oiled fine emery cloth rather than a stone unless you know that the stone is very fine/smooth. Look to be using a minimum 320 grade emery or stone and oil whichever you use. Don`t exert any real pressure and just make a couple of passes at a time - then re-assemble and check.

"A GI issue 1911 double action Must be something special."

That comment was ironic......and not actually directed at you or your pistol. WAKE UP Abhijeet !

penpusher, -

I`m going back to the shed to continue building my spaceship - I have a bit of a problem in that I can`t decide whether to use single or double action triggering to ignite the rocket engines !

[mundaire]

Thanks for the suggestions Grumps, and yes I do recall that conversation... Never did figure it would apply to as small a part as this, since the topic of discussion at the time (IIRC) was barrels etc.... Hmm... have a whet stone at home with a smooth and a rough side... you reckon that'll do? Be a shame to stone off the nice factory finish off the new safety though...

"A GI issue 1911 double action Must be something special."

That comment was ironic......and not actually directed at you or your pistol. WAKE UP Abhijeet !

penpusher, -

Shucks! missed that completely! Been a bit preoccupied lately... but damn!

Cheers!
Abhijeet

[Grumpy]

The safety probably just needs skimming along the edge closest to the frame where burrs are most likely. You should barely touch the `factory finish`.
( `Factory finish` ? You bought a blued safety ? That`s not how things are done. You fit and THEN finish ! )
Don`t worry about the moment - it`s been very obvious that you`ve been both very busy and rather `pre-occupied` recently.
......... And it could be worse - I told Dodger/Vikram/Anand that I`d arranged to have a particular rifle restocked........and then realised some time later that I `d said completely the wrong rifle - different make, different calibre.....hardly any similarities at all. Going completely gaga in my case !

[Mark]

Abhijeet,

Bear with me, we have to cover part one before we do part two...

First thing you need to do, just to make me happy, is remove the plunger and make sure the safety operates just fine without it.

As long as it does, then we know it is not hanging up on the sear in any shape.

As you have suggested already, the profile of the slope is a bit too sharp.

For those of you who are learning, here is a pic:



The thumb safety is the piece towards the back, and the plunger is clearly seen pressing against it as well. Everyone can see there is a little ridge that the plunger will "snap" over, when going from "fire" to "safe" and back.

I would just sightly burnish off that point. Maybe 2 or 3 swipes with a stone and refit and try again. Remember to put a drop of oil on there too. If you don't have a fine sharpening stone to use steal an emery board from your wife, it will hold up long enough to do this job. I'd do it so it is still a tiny bit stiff, as it will smooth up after a couple hundred clicks anyway.