Hello guys !! I wanted to ask something i came across about striker fired pistols , can they go off on their own if we put a round in the chamber ? I mean i have heard people saying that they are much more modern and safe then traditional hammer fire .
2-3 models of striker pistol are trending in india now a days so i just wanted to know whats the physics behind it ? Just to add i have always owned hammer fired handguns and i have no experience with striker fired ones.
Please view this video but nothing substantial is explained to hows and why .
Striker fired pistols ( clarification needed )
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tarun0034
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timmy
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Re: Striker fired pistols ( clarification needed )
One comment to begin: always beware of news media commenting on guns. They understand nothing about them, and will use the most sensational language to describe conditions and situations that will maximize their viewership, which makes them money.
For instance, in the description of these kinds of events, it is said that the pistol has "passive safeties," and this is expanded sensationally by saying that the safeties operate or are released without any control of the shooter. This second part is false. There is no separate action by the shooter to remove the safety. The safety is removed by deliberately pulling the trigger.
This may seem like double talk, but consider that this is how the Colt double action revolver safety works and has worked since 1905, and these revolvers (like a Python, for instance) have proven to be totally safe for almost 120 years. The point here is that one has to move beyond the ignorant language (or stupid language, which is ignorance that refuses to be educated) and understand how things work.
There is no inherent danger to striker fired pistols compared to hammer fired pistols. None. Consider that just about every bolt action made since bolt action rifles began to be used on the battlefield: since 1866, are all striker fired. If you examine a Model 1898 Mauser, for instance, one of the most common and legendary military and sporting rifles, you will see that it is not only striker fired, but that it is absolutely and completely safe with the original military safety applied. You would break the gun to a point beyond operation if you tried to defeat the safety.
Blocking the striker or blocking the hammer -- either task of design, if accomplished competently, will render the gun safe.
I have and carry a pistol very similar in operation to the P320. Single action striker fired pistols usually have at least two safeties: a striker safety, and a trigger safety. Often, the trigger safety will appear as if there are two triggers: the one you pull, and a blade in the center of this trigger that blocks the trigger's rearward movement to fire. Glocks are famous for this kind of trigger. When pulling the blade in the middle of the trigger, a block is removed to allow the full trigger to be pulled. This prevents the trigger from inadvertently being pulled unless it is the shooter's intention to do so.
This may not seem to be very much of a safety, but consider that the saftey of a revolver also works by keeping the gun safe to carry until one wants to shoot, and then all that's needed is to pull the trigger.
Another safety of the striker fired pistol often seen is the striker safety, which is very similar to the firing pin safety used on single action hammer fired pistols, like the 1911 Series 80. Here, the striker, which is the part that travels forward and strikes the primer, discharging the chambered cartridge, is blocked by a piece of metal. Imagine the striker as a thin rod with a point at the end, which strikes the primer. A cut out area in the side of this striker has another vertical rod that intersects the cut out area, and prevents the striker from moving to strike the primer. The striker can't move, so the gun can't fire, even if it is dropped.
To disengage this sort of safety, the trigger is pulled, and the vertical rod in the slot of the striker is pushed upwards. This vertical rod also has a slot cut into its side that is against the striker. When this cut out of the vertical rod, the striker block, is raised to be even with the striker, the striker can now pass through the block's slot and the gun can be fired.
So, this sort of operation would be this:
1. The blade in the center of the trigger is depressed, removing the block that prevents the trigger from being pulled.
2. The trigger is pulled.
3. As the trigger is pulled, the striker block rises upward and the slot cut on its side aligns with the striker, allowing the striker to pass.
4. The trigger continues to be pulled, moving the sear down and releasing the striker to move forward.
5. The striker spring powers the striker forward, passing through the slot in the striker block and hitting the primer.
All of this feels pretty much like the same motion.
So, to answer your first question: "i have heard people saying that they are much more modern and safe then traditional hammer fire," these people don't know what they are talking about. if designed properly with good safeties, a quality hammer fired pistol and a striker fired pistol are both completely safe.
But #1: now your second question gets to the important part of the issue. I have described how the elementary safeties of a single action striker fired pistol works. But is this the design of the "2-3 models of striker pistol are trending in india now a days"? I don't know. I don't know how these pistols are designed internally.
But #2: what are these pistols made of? Are the parts made of materials that are capable of performing their job, and are the steel parts not only made of good steel, but are they correctly heat treated so that they won't wear out by the time the gun is fired 20 or 50 or 100 times? I don't know. This is something that you will need to find out.
But #3: if the design is a good one and the parts are made of good materials, is the workmanship that fits the parts together such that they will work correctly? You can't just design and make a bunch of parts and throw them into a barrel, or turn them over to a bunch of monkeys (or, as Asif famously calls them, "bed pan mechanics") and expect them to operate correctly over a long period of time. I have old Colts that shoot fine and safely that are over 100 years old, and they work find. But the craftsmanship that put them together was also excellent, which is easily seen when they are disassembled.
But what about the 2-3 models now on the market that you mention? That's something else again. You can disassemble them yourself, and trust your own judgment. You can have someone else examine them, and trust their judgment. Or you can wait and see how each pistol performs over a period of time you consider adequate, and trust the opinions of those who have already bought them.
Regarding the Sig Sauer P320, from here: https://www.buffalorifles.org/blog/did- ... -the-p320/
They are considered a high quality pistol, but no, I probably would not.
For instance, in the description of these kinds of events, it is said that the pistol has "passive safeties," and this is expanded sensationally by saying that the safeties operate or are released without any control of the shooter. This second part is false. There is no separate action by the shooter to remove the safety. The safety is removed by deliberately pulling the trigger.
This may seem like double talk, but consider that this is how the Colt double action revolver safety works and has worked since 1905, and these revolvers (like a Python, for instance) have proven to be totally safe for almost 120 years. The point here is that one has to move beyond the ignorant language (or stupid language, which is ignorance that refuses to be educated) and understand how things work.
There is no inherent danger to striker fired pistols compared to hammer fired pistols. None. Consider that just about every bolt action made since bolt action rifles began to be used on the battlefield: since 1866, are all striker fired. If you examine a Model 1898 Mauser, for instance, one of the most common and legendary military and sporting rifles, you will see that it is not only striker fired, but that it is absolutely and completely safe with the original military safety applied. You would break the gun to a point beyond operation if you tried to defeat the safety.
Blocking the striker or blocking the hammer -- either task of design, if accomplished competently, will render the gun safe.
I have and carry a pistol very similar in operation to the P320. Single action striker fired pistols usually have at least two safeties: a striker safety, and a trigger safety. Often, the trigger safety will appear as if there are two triggers: the one you pull, and a blade in the center of this trigger that blocks the trigger's rearward movement to fire. Glocks are famous for this kind of trigger. When pulling the blade in the middle of the trigger, a block is removed to allow the full trigger to be pulled. This prevents the trigger from inadvertently being pulled unless it is the shooter's intention to do so.
This may not seem to be very much of a safety, but consider that the saftey of a revolver also works by keeping the gun safe to carry until one wants to shoot, and then all that's needed is to pull the trigger.
Another safety of the striker fired pistol often seen is the striker safety, which is very similar to the firing pin safety used on single action hammer fired pistols, like the 1911 Series 80. Here, the striker, which is the part that travels forward and strikes the primer, discharging the chambered cartridge, is blocked by a piece of metal. Imagine the striker as a thin rod with a point at the end, which strikes the primer. A cut out area in the side of this striker has another vertical rod that intersects the cut out area, and prevents the striker from moving to strike the primer. The striker can't move, so the gun can't fire, even if it is dropped.
To disengage this sort of safety, the trigger is pulled, and the vertical rod in the slot of the striker is pushed upwards. This vertical rod also has a slot cut into its side that is against the striker. When this cut out of the vertical rod, the striker block, is raised to be even with the striker, the striker can now pass through the block's slot and the gun can be fired.
So, this sort of operation would be this:
1. The blade in the center of the trigger is depressed, removing the block that prevents the trigger from being pulled.
2. The trigger is pulled.
3. As the trigger is pulled, the striker block rises upward and the slot cut on its side aligns with the striker, allowing the striker to pass.
4. The trigger continues to be pulled, moving the sear down and releasing the striker to move forward.
5. The striker spring powers the striker forward, passing through the slot in the striker block and hitting the primer.
All of this feels pretty much like the same motion.
So, to answer your first question: "i have heard people saying that they are much more modern and safe then traditional hammer fire," these people don't know what they are talking about. if designed properly with good safeties, a quality hammer fired pistol and a striker fired pistol are both completely safe.
But #1: now your second question gets to the important part of the issue. I have described how the elementary safeties of a single action striker fired pistol works. But is this the design of the "2-3 models of striker pistol are trending in india now a days"? I don't know. I don't know how these pistols are designed internally.
But #2: what are these pistols made of? Are the parts made of materials that are capable of performing their job, and are the steel parts not only made of good steel, but are they correctly heat treated so that they won't wear out by the time the gun is fired 20 or 50 or 100 times? I don't know. This is something that you will need to find out.
But #3: if the design is a good one and the parts are made of good materials, is the workmanship that fits the parts together such that they will work correctly? You can't just design and make a bunch of parts and throw them into a barrel, or turn them over to a bunch of monkeys (or, as Asif famously calls them, "bed pan mechanics") and expect them to operate correctly over a long period of time. I have old Colts that shoot fine and safely that are over 100 years old, and they work find. But the craftsmanship that put them together was also excellent, which is easily seen when they are disassembled.
But what about the 2-3 models now on the market that you mention? That's something else again. You can disassemble them yourself, and trust your own judgment. You can have someone else examine them, and trust their judgment. Or you can wait and see how each pistol performs over a period of time you consider adequate, and trust the opinions of those who have already bought them.
Regarding the Sig Sauer P320, from here: https://www.buffalorifles.org/blog/did- ... -the-p320/
Would I buy a Sign Sauer P320?Did Sig Sauer Fix the P320? The Truth Behind the Recall
By
Buffalo Rifles
Blog
The Sig Sauer P320 is a popular handgun that has been used by law enforcement and military personnel around the world. However, the gun has been plagued by problems, including a number of accidental discharges. In 2017, the U.S. Army suspended its contract with Sig Sauer over concerns about the P320’s safety. So, did Sig Sauer fix the P320? In this article, we’ll take a closer look at the P320’s problems and Sig Sauer’s efforts to address them. We’ll also discuss whether the P320 is now a safe and reliable handgun.
| Did Sig Sauer fix the P320? | Yes, Sig Sauer has fixed the P320. The company issued a recall of the pistol in 2017 and has since made several changes to the design to address the issue. | [Sig Sauer website](https://www.sigsauer.com/news/sig-sauer ... e-program/) |
The Sig Sauer P320 is a striker-fired pistol that was introduced in 2014. It is a modular pistol that can be configured in a variety of ways, including with different barrel lengths, grip sizes, and slide finishes. The P320 quickly became popular with law enforcement and civilians alike. However, in 2017, the P320 was involved in a series of accidental discharges that led to the pistol being recalled.
History of the P320
The P320 was designed by Sig Sauer in response to a request from the U.S. Army for a new service pistol. The P320 was one of three pistols that were submitted to the Army’s Modular Handgun System (MHS) competition. The P320 was ultimately selected as the winner of the MHS competition and was adopted by the U.S. Army as the M17.
The P320 is a polymer-framed pistol that is chambered for the 9mm Luger cartridge. It is a striker-fired pistol, which means that the striker is cocked by the slide and released when the trigger is pulled. The P320 has a modular design that allows it to be configured in a variety of ways. The grip can be changed to accommodate different hand sizes, and the slide can be changed to accommodate different barrel lengths. The P320 also has a number of other features that make it a popular choice for law enforcement and civilians alike. These features include a low bore axis, a high-visibility three-dot sight system, and a modular magazine well that allows for the use of both 17-round and 21-round magazines.
The P320 Recall
In 2017, the P320 was involved in a series of accidental discharges that led to the pistol being recalled. The accidental discharges occurred when the pistols were dropped. Sig Sauer determined that the issue was caused by a design flaw in the striker assembly. The striker assembly was not properly engaging the sear, which could cause the pistol to fire when it was dropped.
Sig Sauer issued a fix for the P320 that involved replacing the striker assembly with a new design. The new striker assembly has a longer engagement surface with the sear, which prevents the pistol from firing when it is dropped. Sig Sauer also issued a voluntary upgrade kit for P320 pistols that were not affected by the recall. The upgrade kit includes a new striker assembly and a new sear.
Did Sig Sauer Fix The P320?
The P320 recall was a major setback for Sig Sauer. However, the company has since taken steps to address the issue and ensure that the P320 is safe to use. The new striker assembly and sear have been shown to prevent the pistol from firing when it is dropped. Sig Sauer has also issued a voluntary upgrade kit for P320 pistols that were not affected by the recall.
Overall, it appears that Sig Sauer has successfully addressed the issue with the P320. The pistol is now safe to use and is a reliable choice for law enforcement and civilians alike.
The Sig Sauer P320 is a popular pistol that has been involved in a series of accidental discharges. However, Sig Sauer has issued a fix for the P320 that has been shown to prevent the pistol from firing when it is dropped. The P320 is now safe to use and is a reliable choice for law enforcement and civilians alike.
Testing of the P320 After the Recall
After the recall, Sig Sauer tested the P320 to ensure that the fix had resolved the issue of accidental discharges. Sig Sauer conducted a series of drop tests, firing tests, and torture tests on the P320.
Drop Tests
Sig Sauer conducted a series of drop tests on the P320 to simulate the kind of drops that could occur in real-world use. The pistol was dropped from various heights onto concrete, asphalt, and other hard surfaces. In all of the tests, the P320 fired without any problems.
Firing Tests
Sig Sauer also conducted a series of firing tests on the P320. The pistol was fired with a variety of ammunition, including ball, hollow-point, and frangible rounds. The pistol was also fired with different magazines and with different grip modules. In all of the tests, the P320 functioned flawlessly.
Torture Tests
Finally, Sig Sauer conducted a series of torture tests on the P320. The pistol was subjected to extreme heat and cold, as well as being submerged in water and mud. The pistol was also fired with a variety of dirty and damaged ammunition. In all of the tests, the P320 continued to function without any problems.
Based on the results of these tests, Sig Sauer concluded that the fix for the P320 was successful and that the pistol was safe to use.
**
Sig Sauer’s Response to the Recall
Sig Sauer’s response to the recall was swift and decisive. The company issued a voluntary recall of all P320 pistols manufactured before January 2017. Sig Sauer also offered to repair or replace any P320 pistols that were affected by the recall.
In addition to the recall, Sig Sauer also made a number of changes to the P320 design. These changes included:
A new striker safety mechanism that was designed to prevent the pistol from firing if it was dropped.
A new trigger safety mechanism that was designed to prevent the pistol from firing if the trigger was not fully depressed.
A new firing pin safety plunger that was designed to prevent the pistol from firing if the firing pin was not fully engaged.
Sig Sauer also released a new software update for the P320 that was designed to further improve the pistol’s safety.
**
The Aftermath of the Recall
The P320 recall was a major setback for Sig Sauer. The company’s reputation was tarnished, and sales of the P320 were negatively impacted. However, Sig Sauer has since recovered from the recall, and the P320 is now one of the most popular pistols on the market.
In the aftermath of the recall, Sig Sauer has taken steps to ensure that the P320 is one of the safest pistols on the market. The company has made a number of changes to the P320 design, and it has also implemented a rigorous quality control process. As a result, the P320 is now a very reliable and safe pistol.
**
The P320 recall was a serious issue, but Sig Sauer has taken steps to address the problem. The company has made a number of changes to the P320 design, and it has also implemented a rigorous quality control process. As a result, the P320 is now a very reliable and safe pistol.
Did Sig Sauer Fix The P320?
Yes, Sig Sauer has fixed the P320. The company issued a voluntary recall of the pistol in 2017 after it was discovered that the gun could fire when dropped. Sig Sauer has since made a number of changes to the P320, including redesigning the trigger and adding a new safety mechanism. The company has also conducted extensive testing to ensure that the P320 is now safe to use.
Here are some of the changes that Sig Sauer made to the P320:
The trigger was redesigned to make it more difficult to fire the gun by accident.
A new safety mechanism was added to prevent the gun from firing if it is dropped.
The P320 was tested extensively to ensure that it is now safe to use.
The P320 is now considered to be a safe and reliable pistol. It has been tested by a number of independent organizations and has received positive reviews from both law enforcement and consumers. If you are considering purchasing a P320, you can be confident that it is a safe and reliable firearm.
Here are some resources that you can consult for more information on the P320 recall and the changes that Sig Sauer made to the pistol:
[Sig Sauer P320 Recall](https://www.sigsauer.com/press/p320-voluntary-recall/)
[Sig Sauer P320 Update](https://www.sigsauer.com/press/p320-update/)
[The Truth About the Sig Sauer P320 Recall](https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/the-t ... 20-recall/)
[P320 Recall: What You Need to Know](https://www.gunsandammo.com/editorial/p ... now/365145)
They are considered a high quality pistol, but no, I probably would not.
“Fanaticism consists of redoubling your efforts when you have forgotten your aim.”
saying in the British Royal Navy
saying in the British Royal Navy
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tarun0034
- Fresh on the boat
- Posts: 7
- Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2018 1:03 am
Re: Striker fired pistols ( clarification needed )
Dear Timmy,
Thank you for the detailed and informative explanation about striker-fired pistols, specifically addressing concerns around safety. Your in-depth analysis and expertise shed light on the mechanics and design elements that ensure safety in these firearms.
Your clarification on passive safeties, striker safety, and trigger safety mechanisms was particularly helpful. The comparison with hammer-fired pistols and revolvers provided valuable context.
The information about the Sig Sauer P320 recall and subsequent design improvements was also enlightening. It's reassuring to know that the company took proactive measures to address safety concerns.
Your emphasis on proper design, materials, and workmanship in ensuring firearm safety resonated strongly. It's crucial for manufacturers to prioritize these aspects no matter wherever they manufacture in this world, specially in india where we have less exposure to these handguns and reputation of these companies are on line with each new model they launch. Plus i guess the metallurgy, overall fit and finish of pvt indian manufactured firearms is yet to prove it self on international standards , which of course will take time.
Thank you for sharing your knowledge and experience. Your lesson on striker-fired pistols or anything i have read over life and guns in particular has been invaluable.
And, of course, a big thank you, Timmy, for taking the time to share your expertise! The pleasure is solely mine.
Thank you for the detailed and informative explanation about striker-fired pistols, specifically addressing concerns around safety. Your in-depth analysis and expertise shed light on the mechanics and design elements that ensure safety in these firearms.
Your clarification on passive safeties, striker safety, and trigger safety mechanisms was particularly helpful. The comparison with hammer-fired pistols and revolvers provided valuable context.
The information about the Sig Sauer P320 recall and subsequent design improvements was also enlightening. It's reassuring to know that the company took proactive measures to address safety concerns.
Your emphasis on proper design, materials, and workmanship in ensuring firearm safety resonated strongly. It's crucial for manufacturers to prioritize these aspects no matter wherever they manufacture in this world, specially in india where we have less exposure to these handguns and reputation of these companies are on line with each new model they launch. Plus i guess the metallurgy, overall fit and finish of pvt indian manufactured firearms is yet to prove it self on international standards , which of course will take time.
Thank you for sharing your knowledge and experience. Your lesson on striker-fired pistols or anything i have read over life and guns in particular has been invaluable.
And, of course, a big thank you, Timmy, for taking the time to share your expertise! The pleasure is solely mine.
-
timmy
- Old Timer
- Posts: 3027
- Joined: Mon Dec 08, 2008 7:03 am
- Location: home on the range
Re: Striker fired pistols ( clarification needed )
Tarun, thank you for your generous words. I'd like to make a couple of comments in reply:
Whether one is talking about Bose sound systems or the Boson atomic particles, India has more than proven it can run with the biggest and the best. The Malhotra 1911s seem to be made quite well, from what I have read (but I haven't handled one). Here's an example I like to think of:
https://www.sportsmans.com/shooting-gea ... /p/1456716
(I hope that this link is available for you to see)
This little 32 Auto pistol is inexpensive. Even though its small size might make one think that it would be hard to handle, because Keltec used the more expensive locked breech design, recoil is light and a light recoil spring makes pulling the slide back to charge the gun easier. But still, the price is very low, as you can see. These guns are quite reliable. They don't have a safety and are double action only in operation. The design is so good that Ruger copied this gun's bigger 380 Auto brother and called it the LCP at an even cheaper price:
https://www.sportsmans.com/shooting-gea ... /p/1198299
There is no technical reason why these guns couldn't be made, or even improved upon, in India, with respect to quality, price, or technical attributes. The problems are elsewhere, and we work to solve those kinds of problems here on IFG.
Bottom line is, we've had a good time here and perhaps some others will enjoy this, as well!
Here, I find some Indian manufacturers to be without excuse absolutely. India is the cradle of metallurgical science and engineering, going back to the ancient days of Wootz steel in Hyderabad -- at least. Just because some bungler picks up some tools and makes an inferior product is no commentary on india! The knowledge exists, and the only lack is when some creature refuses to access and implement that knowledge. Regarding Wootz, this proved itself internationally in ancient days to such a level that people considered it magical.
Whether one is talking about Bose sound systems or the Boson atomic particles, India has more than proven it can run with the biggest and the best. The Malhotra 1911s seem to be made quite well, from what I have read (but I haven't handled one). Here's an example I like to think of:
https://www.sportsmans.com/shooting-gea ... /p/1456716
(I hope that this link is available for you to see)
This little 32 Auto pistol is inexpensive. Even though its small size might make one think that it would be hard to handle, because Keltec used the more expensive locked breech design, recoil is light and a light recoil spring makes pulling the slide back to charge the gun easier. But still, the price is very low, as you can see. These guns are quite reliable. They don't have a safety and are double action only in operation. The design is so good that Ruger copied this gun's bigger 380 Auto brother and called it the LCP at an even cheaper price:
https://www.sportsmans.com/shooting-gea ... /p/1198299
There is no technical reason why these guns couldn't be made, or even improved upon, in India, with respect to quality, price, or technical attributes. The problems are elsewhere, and we work to solve those kinds of problems here on IFG.
No, Tarun, the pleasure belongs to both of us -- we are sharing thoughts about guns, an activity that is pleasant. Also, we are sharing our sharing with all who read these pages. Maybe they will also enjoy our discussion, or maybe they will gather that guns do not have a negative moral component, but that they do have a positive aspect for those who are interested in design and use -- or even collecting them. All three of these activities appeal to me, and I'm sure that I'm not alone.
Bottom line is, we've had a good time here and perhaps some others will enjoy this, as well!
“Fanaticism consists of redoubling your efforts when you have forgotten your aim.”
saying in the British Royal Navy
saying in the British Royal Navy
-
tarun0034
- Fresh on the boat
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- Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2018 1:03 am
Re: Striker fired pistols ( clarification needed )
Thank you for your thoughtful response! You make some excellent points about the potential for Indian manufacturers to produce high-quality firearms that meet international standards. It's important to recognize that India has a rich history of metallurgical science and engineering, as exemplified by Wootz steel.
Regarding the Malhotra 1911s, it's great to hear that they seem to be made well, and the example you shared of the Keltec P-32 pistol demonstrates that affordable and reliable firearms can be produced. You're right that there's no technical reason why similar guns couldn't be made in India, and it's encouraging to see discussions like this one on IFG that aim to address the challenges and promote positive developments in the industry.
Sharing Knowledge and Enthusiasm
I couldn't agree more about the pleasure of sharing thoughts and enthusiasm for firearms! It's great to have a platform like this to exchange ideas, learn from each other, and showcase the positive aspects of firearms, whether it's design, use, or collecting. Your passion is infectious, and I'm sure many readers will appreciate your insights and the resources you've shared.
Regarding the Malhotra 1911s, it's great to hear that they seem to be made well, and the example you shared of the Keltec P-32 pistol demonstrates that affordable and reliable firearms can be produced. You're right that there's no technical reason why similar guns couldn't be made in India, and it's encouraging to see discussions like this one on IFG that aim to address the challenges and promote positive developments in the industry.
Sharing Knowledge and Enthusiasm
I couldn't agree more about the pleasure of sharing thoughts and enthusiasm for firearms! It's great to have a platform like this to exchange ideas, learn from each other, and showcase the positive aspects of firearms, whether it's design, use, or collecting. Your passion is infectious, and I'm sure many readers will appreciate your insights and the resources you've shared.
-
Lever Action
- Fresh on the boat
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- Joined: Sat May 04, 2024 5:24 pm
Re: Striker fired pistols ( clarification needed )
Thanks to both the gentlemen tarun and timmy , as always a worthy discussion on IFG , And as always timmy (Sir) you are always spot on , thanks for sharing your knowledge.