Buy a New Handgun CZ Vinveli, Cmt Glock,S&W Werywin,Jindal Tarus

[winnie_the_pooh]

There is nothing Indian made in these revolvers. The company is just getting the firearms as parts and assembling them here. It is not like they have to recover the investment they have made in plant and machinery from the limited number of guns that get sold. The company is gouging their customers through their prices....and yes, the prices are for the revolvers being sold here.

[gurbir22]

Even more interesting thing is that the prices of old imported weapons have gone up instead of coming down.

[casual shooter]

Ridiculously high priced weapon, with an even ridiculously priced ammo, is only useful for showing meri shirt apse jayda white hai; otherwise, the best weapon for home defense is a pump action shotgun; one shot is sufficient to clear the room, every one gets the prasadam. In a close combat situation, double tapping with a 32 revolver has sufficient stopping power, so buy a good 32 revolver and start practicing double tapping. The problem with 45 and other heavy caliber is releveling the gun for a second shot. IMHO

[chicky]

Dear Friends,

Was watching a YouTube from Gunz Villa where the host shows two new revolvers from Werywin Smith and Wesson in .357 calibre( Models 60 and 686). Both are in full stainless steel and the quality looks impressive. The price quoted by him is exorbitant though at over Rs 10 Lakhs each. At that rate once can easily find a genuine imported Smith and Wesson , then why this price ?? it's literally looting the Indian public because in the US such weapons are not over $ 1000 .
Very frustrating ...

[chicky]

[winnie_the_pooh]

Dear Friends,

Was watching a YouTube from Gunz Villa where the host shows two new revolvers from Werywin Smith and Wesson in .357 calibre( Models 60 and 686). Both are in full stainless steel and the quality looks impressive. The price quoted by him is exorbitant though at over Rs 10 Lakhs each. At that rate once can easily find a genuine imported Smith and Wesson , then why this price ?? it's literally looting the Indian public because in the US such weapons are not over $ 1000 .
Very frustrating ...

The revolvers being sold here are all genuine imported Smith & Wesson revolvers. The difference between the two is 10 lakhs.The price is 6 lakhs and 16 lakhs. The thing is that Indian buyers are themselves not very knowledgeable about firearms and rely upon the 'expertise' of dealers whose only interest is to ensure that they make maximum profit. In the video the fellow refers to the 686 revolvers as 'rare'

[winnie_the_pooh]

Even more interesting thing is that the prices of old imported weapons have gone up instead of coming down.

My advice ignore this 'imported' vs Indian made S&W/Taurus nonsense. None of the pistols/revolvers of these brands that are being sold here are actually made here. They are just assembled here.

[dsingh]

Ridiculously high priced weapon, with an even ridiculously priced ammo, is only useful for showing meri shirt apse jayda white hai; otherwise, the best weapon for home defense is a pump action shotgun; one shot is sufficient to clear the room, every one gets the prasadam. In a close combat situation, double tapping with a 32 revolver has sufficient stopping power, so buy a good 32 revolver and start practicing double tapping. The problem with 45 and other heavy caliber is releveling the gun for a second shot. IMHO

U r 100 percent right but breech loading shotgun have more punishing power if these r of good quality revolvers r good for defence .These cos charge hugh prices to cover their own expenditure also hugh profit margins .It is racket most of cos with partnership with foreign cos r just looting common customers without amno manufacturing it is going to hit badly.That is why people will again go for IOF . Old handgun r of good metal that is why it is expensive .455 is very big bore it needs shooting course proper. I have seen the power of Nishank after WERYWIN and taurus it is IOF .30 bore is sold for more than 3 lacs in our adversary nation it is for 15k .This is nothing but uncontrolled loot.In sangrur jalandhar area most of customers of 45 r having problems with barell but desi co is customer friendly they change it immediately do not carried away by others opinion or dealer view they want to sell their product.Among the desi cos only gretta revolvers r good but price is very high.

How about taking a look at the rules and not using "text talk" anymore, OK? Thank you -- the moderator

[winnie_the_pooh]

Clearing a room with one blast of a shotgun is something that is confined to movies. Even out of the 20inch cylinder bore barrel of the IOF Pump Action, the pellets do not spread that much over 10-15 meters. At 10-15 feet all the pellets and the wad are going to go into a pretty small area. Also you would be deaf for some time

[timmy]

Was watching a YouTube from Gunz Villa where the host shows two new revolvers from Werywin Smith and Wesson in .357 calibre( Models 60 and 686). Both are in full stainless steel and the quality looks impressive. The price quoted by him is exorbitant though at over Rs 10 Lakhs each. At that rate once can easily find a genuine imported Smith and Wesson , then why this price ?? it's literally looting the Indian public because in the US such weapons are not over $ 1000 .
Very frustrating ...

Chicky, you are quite right about prices. A stainless S&W Model 60 5 round with a 65 mm barrel would be about $780, or 2/3rds lakh at the current exchange rate.

A 7 round 686 plus in stainless with a 65 mm barrel would be $950, or about 4/5th lakh at the current exchange rate.

I hope you're not considering getting either of these revolvers. You've mentioned that 45 Auto is too much to shoot -- have you fired 357 Magnum much?

The problem with 45 and other heavy caliber is releveling the gun for a second shot. IMHO

the best weapon for home defense is a pump action shotgun; one shot is sufficient to clear the room, every one gets the prasadam

. . . breech loading shotgun have more punishing power

Clearing a room with one blast of a shotgun is something that is confined to movies. Even out of the 20inch cylinder bore barrel of the IOF Pump Action, the pellets do not spread that much over 10-15 meters. At 10-15 feet all the pellets and the wad are going to go into a pretty small area. Also you would be deaf for some time

That's odd, I don't have any problem releveling my 1911 for a second shot.

Winnie is quite right about managing a shotgun indoors. They are much longer that a pistol or revolver, for one thing.

Winnie's appreciation of a pattern at room distance or even house distance is also correct. I've got a legal length (~460 mm barrel) pump for such purposes, and it hangs out in the closet. Having played around with it for awhile a ways back, I found that just because it was a shotgun didn't guarantee that it could shoot around corners or magically send a load of shot by mental telepathy -- the shotgun is required to be pointed in the right direction with some accuracy. Try it sometime and see for yourself!

The pistol under my pillow is much more sensible for in-house problems.

Winnie, regarding prices of S&W sold in India, I think that you are right, but you did forget to add in the customs duties on the imported parts that are assembled in India, which I don't think would be too inconsequential.

However, given the prices that are being charged, the figures being quoted here are still as ridiculous as you are asserting. Someone would be making a pile of cash by selling at those prices, and something is clearly wrong.

[chicky]

Dear Timmy,

I haven't fired a .357 as yet but I am presuming it's going to have a kick less than a .45. Am I correct ?
Anyway I was just surprised at the authorised prices of these " made in India" products .At Rs 16 Lakhs or $19000 !!
As you said there's something wrong here...
I am waiting for my permission to buy to arrive and which might take another couple of months, hopefully by then some new weapons may come in or the prices of the existing may go down.
Right now I am considering one of the three MSD Elite, JD Taurus or the MSD Falcon

[james]

Smith&wesson Model 60 J frame five shots 357 magnum kicks like a mule. 1911 in 45 acp is still better .
James.

[winnie_the_pooh]

timmy, the import duty along with various surcharges is 56% of Cost+ Freight+ Insurance . If Werywin can afford to import parts, assemble and sell the 431PD in .32 at Rs.2.43 lakhs I don't see how they can't do it for the J frame .357. Even the money that they want for the .32 is on the higher side according to me but the prices they have set for the other revolvers are crazy.

[pawan1981]

namskar to all seniors

Why did werywin suddenly launch .357 bore its bullet is very expensive in India,
While they were supposed to launch MP2.0 in .45 bore as Mohit ji said on the same forum, for .32 and .45 bore.

I feel they have to earn more premium than the new bore .357, like MSD Guardian was once sold for 6 to 7 lakhs, today it is selling for 3 lakhs with the arrival of competition,
when 357 bore other companies will start manufacturing then this revolver will be available in 5 lakhs

[timmy]

I haven't fired a .357 as yet but I am presuming it's going to have a kick less than a .45. Am I correct ?

Chicky, this is one of those things that you will have to try for yourself. I have answers for myself, but I don't know how they fit with anyone else.

If you study the ballistics listed for 357 Magnum, you will see that this cartridge is generally rated as much more powerful than 45 Auto in terms of energy it produces. But, there are several issues to consider that make a straight-up comparison very difficult to assess.

45 Auto ballistics generally have a 127 mm barrel 1911 in mind, and if more than one load is listed, it will usually include the standard military loading of a 230 grain full metal jacket at around 850 feet/second. For 357 Magnum, barrel lengths for which ballistics are given often are for 152 mm or 225 mm barrels, but here we are talking about 65 mm barrels (I presume).

The thing about 357 Magnum is that it is a high pressure round, about 35,000 pounds/square inch, while 45 Auto runs at a 20,000 pounds/square inch, like 38 Special and 32 Auto. Because of this, the performance of 357 Magnum falls off quite a bit in shorter barrels.

A person who reloads would adjust the choice of powder to use faster burning powders in the short barrel gun. This isn't available for you to do in india, to optimize your ammunition for your gun. Anyway, although I reload for everything I have, I don't use reloads for carry guns. For one thing, there are legal issues that could arise.

Another issue is the weight of the gun, which greatly affects recoil. A snub nosed 38 Special carry gun is usually thought to be a S&W Chief's Special, with a 5 round cylinder. This is quite a bit lighter than my 6 round Colt Detective Special. Even my Colt can be lively in my hand with hot rounds (though this has been tamed by using Pachmayr grips). People do complain about hot loads in Chief's Specials, however. Running a gun that's not much heavier in hot 357 loads will get your attention, I'm sure.

The thing with a 1911 is that it has some amount of weight in front of the shooter's hand. A snub nosed revolver has very little weight in front of the hand, and because the axis of the bore is higher above the hand than a 1911 or other semiauto, the light weight combines with the leverage of the higher bore to make a snub nose be jumpy when fired. For myself with a 38 Special, this isn't something that is difficult to train for at the range. For me, several sessions at the range of one or two hundred rounds a session will get me back to doing what I should be doing in controlling things. But for others, their training needs may differ -- I can't say.

You might want to refer to these articles, which are pretty good from my point of view:

https://www.luckygunner.com/lounge/357- ... coil-much/

https://revolverguy.com/ammunition-smal ... revolvers/

There are many other places where comments on this subject can be found, and as with any gun topic, some are helpful and most are a lot of rubbish opinions.

One thing I cannot tell you about is the ammunition that is available to you in 357 Magnum. There is such a wide range of this ammunition regarding bullet weight and power levels that almost any idea of what it would be like to shoot a revolver that you may have in mind would be a mystery to me.

For myself, I found 357 Magnum to be very "blasty" and loud -- I didn't care for it. I do shoot 9 mm and 7.62x25 mm (both high pressure rounds) and don't find them objectionable (although the surplus Romanian 7.62x25 I shoot is loud and, I suspect, intended for sub machine gun use.) But, a snub nosed revolver is usually a little gun and harder to hold than a larger one, and you may well find that it is a lot less pleasant to shoot than a 1911. Or maybe not, I can't say.

Some would say, "Just use 38 Special ammunition," but that would beg the question, "What's the point in having a 357 Magnum if you only shoot 38 Special in it?" But, each of us have our own ideas about these kinds of things. My Detective Special is larger than a Chief's Special, but I don't find it to be much smaller than my 1911, and the 1911 is flat without a bulge for the cylinder.

timmy, the import duty along with various surcharges is 56% of Cost+ Freight+ Insurance . If Werywin can afford to import parts, assemble and sell the 431PD in .32 at Rs.2.43 lakhs I don't see how they can't do it for the J frame .357. Even the money that they want for the .32 is on the higher side according to me but the prices they have set for the other revolvers are crazy.

Thanks, Winnie. You re right to question the situation -- it makes no sense to me, either.