Gun Owning Rights for H1-B and similar immigration status

[akashsingh]

Please sign this petition if you support fair access to guns with regards to safety for H1-B holders which are predominantly Indian brothers and sisters. H1-B is not necessarily a non-immigrant visa but a dual intent with regards to immigration. A holder of this status would likely remain in US legally for significant time, mostly with families. We need to feel safe at homes.

[Anand]

Non-Immigrant Visa Holders are generally prohibited from purchasing firearms and ammunition and taking possession within the US.

But if you fall into one of the exceptions to the general rule: ie. If you obtain a Hunter's License after undergoing the mandatory class and firing
test(not the online ones),then as far as Federal Law goes you will be legal. However, each state may have additional rules and laws that you will have to verify.
I have legally owned several firearms in the US when I was there on a F-1 & H-1B Visa and even had CCWs from Florida and Utah(I never got my green card nor became a citizen).
You can check out the Form 4473, that you need to fill out when buying a gun from a dealer, it has specific questions about your legal status.

As far As I know, because of the above, a legal resident alien on a H-1 or other short term visa would not legally be able to buy a gun as a private purchase from an individual or at a gun show. (just because someone maybe willing to sell you one will not make it legal).
You will have to buy from a dealer who will run a background check on you on the NICS system for it to be legal.
I hope this helps,
Regards,
Anand

[thesinfulsaint]

^^^ This

I was able to legally purchase a firearms withing one year of my arriving in the US under H1-B. I did the hunters education course and got a hunters license before purchasing. The requirement is to always have a valid hunters license and always purchase with form 4473, no private/undocumented sales. Later I was able to get the LTC (License to carry) which was called a CHL (concealed handgun license) back then but seems like they have revised their laws and now LTC is provided to permanent residents and citizens only. I could be wrong.

Out of curiosity, are you based in US on H1-B? If you are then like me you might be you must be not too happy (almost pissed) with the outlook 99.99% Indian expats regarding guns and the 2nd.

[timmy]

Firstly, here is what the ATF (Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms, which oversees guns and gun ownership in the USA) says:

An alien admitted to the United States under a nonimmigrant visa is prohibited from shipping, transporting, receiving, or possessing a firearm or ammunition unless the alien falls within one of the exceptions provided in 18 U.S.C. 922(y)(2), such as: a valid hunting license or permit, admitted for lawful hunting or sporting purposes, certain official representatives of a foreign government, or a foreign law enforcement officer of a friendly foreign government entering the United States on official law enforcement business.

[18 U.S.C. 922(g)(5)(B) and 922(y)(2); 27 CFR 478.11 and 478.32]

Last Reviewed January 9, 2020

from here: https://www.atf.gov/firearms/qa/may-non ... grant-visa

Secondly, the section this answer refers to:

(2) Exceptions.--Subsections (d)(5)(B), (g)(5)(B), and (s)(3)(B)(v)(II) do not apply to any alien who has been lawfully admitted to the United States under a nonimmigrant visa, if that alien is--

(A) admitted to the United States for lawful hunting or sporting purposes or is in possession of a hunting license or permit lawfully issued in the United States;

(B) an official representative of a foreign government who is--

(i) accredited to the United States Government or the Government's mission to an international organization having its headquarters in the United States; or

(ii) en route to or from another country to which that alien is accredited;

(C) an official of a foreign government or a distinguished foreign visitor who has been so designated by the Department of State; or

(D) a foreign law enforcement officer of a friendly foreign government entering the United States on official law enforcement business.

from here: https://codes.findlaw.com/us/title-18-c ... -sect-922/

Thirdly, any gun that's bought from a FFL (Federal Firearms License) holder will require you to fill out Form 4473. The only way around this would be going to someone's house and buying from them personally, but I'm not sure of the legality of that and you might get into trouble for doing this. If you run afoul of the law, you can guess what might happen to your visa and your job.

Fourthly, when you buy the gun and after you've filled out the form, the dealer is going to call the FBI background check right then and there, before you get the gun. This will take about 10 or 15 minutes, usually. Your name will be checked against records to see whether you are able to have the gun you're buying sold to you.

Fifthly, if you are unfortunate enough to be in a state like New Jersey or any of those states in that part of the country, there are additional laws that will apply. This is also true of Illinois and California. Oregon and Washington have just passed some very prohibative laws, as well. It will be easier in some states to buy a "long gun" (rifle or shotgun) than a handgun. You have to have a firearms purchase license in New Jersey and the gun has to be registered with the local police (but they don't call it registered, because that's against the law!). I knew of a New Jersey state patrol lieutenant who had to register his duty handgun with the local police -- it was the only gun he had! They are very strict in New Jersey and other states, like New York, Maryland, Massachussetts, and Connecticut -- these states are also very strict. You will need to check state laws in the state where you are living.

States like Montana, Idaho, Utah, Wyoming, Arizona, and Texas are much more permissive. If you are living in one of those or some other states, you probably will have less problems.

Sixthly, I don't say that you should not sign and submit a petition, although I don't know who you would submit the petition to and I seriously doubt that it would accomplish anything. Remember that you don't vote, so why would any politician give a hoot about what you think or what your problems are?

Finally, seventhly, I suggest you contact a gun rights group like the NRA (National Rifle Association) and/or GOA (Gun Owners of America) for some help, especially regarding your idea of a petition. They might be more willing to advocate for you regarding the petition, and they might have better information than I can provide to you regarding state laws. There is all kind of legal information about gun ownership online, but finging anything about a Visa holder owning a gun never seems to be a part of that information. Talking to someone who is knowlegable and willing to help may be a good bet.

Remember to be legal. I am guessing that getting entangled with the law over an offense would negatively impact your visa status, as well as your job status, and this might stick with you even after you return home.

[arghya555]

Very accurate information . I would just add that you also have to meet state residency requirement which is usually 90 days in most states. You need a driver license / state approved ID to prove your residency. The date of issuance proves whether you met the statutory 90-days requirement.

I would also like to add that there is no federal restriction in making a private purchase of firearm for non-immigrant visa holders who fall under the exception. However, such purchase is unwise unless you know the person from whom you are purchasing very well. You may not kow whether the gun is stolen in which case you may be in trouble due to felony possession of a stolen firearm.

Different states also have different requirement. E.g. California bans high capacity magazines. So, you cannot buy an AR-1 with 30 or40-round mag.

My pet peeve however is that most states have changed their CCW permits to be available to only green card holders or citizens. Even constitutional carry states usually have that restriction.

[timmy]

arghya555, good info -- thank you for sharing

[GuidedKrinkov]

My very personal opinion, with no intention of attacking anybody on this forum, is that only the citizens of the united States must be able to legally purchase firearms. I personally wouldn't want a non-citizen of India to be able to procure a firearm either. It just makes sense. I think it must be due to my opinions on "permanent" immigration itself. Used to think differently a while back.

- GuidedKrinkov, 2023-10-23, [7]
SEE LEGAL DISCLAIMER: pastebin.com/fxHarPji

[arghya555]

My very personal opinion, with no intention of attacking anybody on this forum, is that only the citizens of the united States must be able to legally purchase firearms. I personally wouldn't want a non-citizen of India to be able to procure a firearm either. It just makes sense. I think it must be due to my opinions on "permanent" immigration itself. Used to think differently a while back.

- GuidedKrinkov, 2023-10-23, [7]
SEE LEGAL DISCLAIMER: pastebin.com/fxHarPji

Is your objection based on "principle" or on "legal grounds"? Because, on legal grounds, there is no validity to your argument as 2A to the US constitution said "shall not be infringed" on firearms rights for "people", not citizens.

If your objection is on "principle", I will not argue with you because I respect your right to your opinion based on your principle.

However, to clarify, US GCA 1968 and 1986 FOPA had made it clear that if you do not have residency in a state, you cannot permanently acquire firearms, which essentially means, you can rent or shoot a firearm but cannot buy one. Residency comes with job / living etc. When you have residency, you have a lot more at stake than being a non-immigrant visitor, who only need a hunting permit.

You have to keep in mind two things: 1. In US, legal immigrants (permanent or temporary) as a group have some of the lowest crime rates; and 2. legally owned gun are used in less than 10% of crimes. It is usually stolen or straw purchased firearms that are involved in crimes.

Most immigrants stay out of trouble and legal gun owners also stay out of trouble. I would be more comfortable around an armed immigrant provided he knows how to handle firearms.

[arghya555]

Fourthly, when you buy the gun and after you've filled out the form, the dealer is going to call the FBI background check right then and there, before you get the gun. This will take about 10 or 15 minutes, usually. Your name will be checked against records to see whether you are able to have the gun you're buying sold to you.

If you are an alien (permanent or non-immigrant), in addition to NICS check by FBI, there is an immigrant alien query (IAQ) run by the Department of Homeland Security to ensure that your visa is valid and your presence in US is legal.

This particular step takes a lot of time in the US and on average you are going to get delayed for 2-3 days till IAQ result comes back with a proceed.

Applying to be included in VAF with FBI will not reduce the delay as they will not issue you and UPIN as the delay is usually with IAQ.

[arghya555]

^^^ This

I was able to legally purchase a firearms withing one year of my arriving in the US under H1-B. I did the hunters education course and got a hunters license before purchasing. The requirement is to always have a valid hunters license and always purchase with form 4473, no private/undocumented sales. Later I was able to get the LTC (License to carry) which was called a CHL (concealed handgun license) back then but seems like they have revised their laws and now LTC is provided to permanent residents and citizens only. I could be wrong.

Out of curiosity, are you based in US on H1-B? If you are then like me you might be you must be not too happy (almost pissed) with the outlook 99.99% Indian expats regarding guns and the 2nd.

Which state was that? Of all the states that I am aware of, Washington, New Hampshire, Utah and West Virginia provide CCW permit to non-citizens or non-GC-holders. But you have to usually be a resident of the state. Other states have that citizen / GC caveat.

[GuidedKrinkov]

Is your objection based on "principle" or on "legal grounds"? Because, on legal grounds, there is no validity to your argument as 2A to the US constitution said "shall not be infringed" on firearms rights for "people", not citizens.

My objection to immigrants,[ regardless of their "status" (H1-B, etc, all the same)], being able to purchase firearms, is actually a principle that somewhat conforms to the Law.

Personally, because I would personally prefer immigrants who have not yet acquired citizenship to not be concealed carrying and not be able to legally acquire a firearm, for personal reasons.

Legally, because what I essentially believe in, is again, conforming to the Law. "We the people of the United States". You are not a part of the "people" until you have integrated into the country by due process and have become a citizen. You being physically present there doesn't mean anything, regardless of how "good" or "better than the citizens" you might believe you are, it doesn't entitle you to anything, which is how I personally believe it should be. You are an outsider until you are a legal citizen, in my eyes. There are exceptions of course. For example, you might have been born in the US and hence be holding citizenship while having moved to a different country at a young age. In this case, you have the ability to embrace American values and live in the States, it's up to you to decide whether you want to or not.

Anyhow, I personally hope, not intending to offend anybody, that the process become more rigorous, to make sure that it would actually make sense to provide citizenship to the immigrant.

Keep It Stupid Simple.

-GuidedKrinkov, 2023-10-24 [11]
Legal Disclaimer

[eljefe]

The OP was pertaining to a petition on gun owning rights for a particular section of visa holders. American.

If you are not one, I don’t think your opinion matters.

[GuidedKrinkov]

And regardless, it's there.

[timmy]

And regardless, it's there.

It sure is. Your obtuse doubling down in response to el jefe's statement only highlights your refusal to grasp the OP's issue.

Detailing the multitudinous aspects of this lack would be tedious, and no doubt unnecessary, as it is already obvious to members, and irrelevant with regard to the OP.

[eljefe]

And regardless, it's there.

And, it will go.
As will you.

As a newb, to life and guns, and this forum in particular, youthful enthusiasm is welcome. But you seem to be more interested in being a keyboard warrior. Out to troll. So off you go for 2 weeks. Learn some non Craigslist protocols and see if you fit back in. If not, find yourself some suitable platform.