The role and value of dieseling in springers

[bennedose]

The info posted by mercury changes a lot of things that are discussed commonly in spinger circles.

The first thing is the idea that a non combustible lubricant should be used.

The second is that it is necessary to make the inside of the receiver mirror smooth to reduce friction. Cardew shows that this can be counter productive in two ways
1. The lack of friction actually encourages the piston to get kicked backwards to the cocking position in the combustion phase
2. a very smooth fit prevents the stoarge of small quantities of combustible lubricant in the scratches and pits

The third point is that Cardew says that leather piston seals can actually soak up and store a small amount of lubricant needed in the combustion phase, and that a very piston tight seal that allows little lubricant to reach the combustion chamber is undesirable


The paper also gives very useful information about O rings for the breech seal. O rings can stop all leakage of gas if you seal the muzzle. Leather seals should take at least 30 seconds. If it is faster - there is a leak.

Fascinating stuff!

[mercury]

one problem i feel is that the terms combustion , dieseling and detonation are used freely and maybe, just maybe inaccurately. maybe the term dieseling should be dropped. that leaves us with combustion and detonation. combustion would be the controlled burning of small amounts of lube in the compression chamber and detonation would be the uncontrolled violent burning of lubes in the compression tube.

i would think that all springers will combust and need to combust to work well. depending on the fit of the seal minuscule amounts of lube will move to the chamber and be evenly distributed every time one moves the piston back to cock and on firing the cycle is repeated....which again i think is needed. this is what a well tuned springer does. the fine amount of lube used is good not just to keep the gun in good condition but more importantly ; give as close as possible shot to shot consistency (fps).

i am no chemist and would not know if there are non combustible lubricants...all i can work on is with lubricants with high flash points with which i can get the the mildest levels (??) of combustion.

the point being ..a lubricant should be used for the purpose it is meant for....LUBRICATION. not as a catalyst for boosting power.

can combustion be avoided all to gather ?? will newer self lubricated seals ( as Diana uses) , lubricant coated springs , thrust bearings ( buttons) and dry compression chambers eliminate combustion ?? i do not know !

[bennedose]

one problem i feel is that the terms combustion , dieseling and detonation are used freely and maybe, just maybe inaccurately. maybe the term dieseling should be dropped. that leaves us with combustion and detonation. combustion would be the controlled burning of small amounts of lube in the compression chamber and detonation would be the uncontrolled violent burning of lubes in the compression tube.

The words combustion and detonation unfortunately refer to exactly the same thing - the only difference being the rate and extent of energy release. Since the lube ("fuel") and the air exist in a continuous volume from compression chamber to transfer port the dynamics of exactly what happens has not been defined even by Cardew. The fact that combustion occurs in the transfer port may simply be the consequnce of a "small, brief detonation" that does not spread and occupy the whole compression chamber.

So unless someone else enters into a detailed analysis of what I think is a fascinating issue I am not sure that we will have much more light than what Cardew has thrown. But it just renews my love for the springer and the fact that it is a sort of living animal whose behaviour you can modify in many surprising ways. Springers behave like lovers - moody, sometimes giving only pleasure and at other times requiring a frustrating degree of attention.

[mercury]

this makes for quite interesting reading and thought.....FIRE PISTONS ...

http://www.africanxmag.com/the_fire_piston.htm

http://www.chm.bris.ac.uk/webprojects20 ... piston.htm

[Basu]

Thats interesting !!

Basu

[bennedose]

this makes for quite interesting reading and thought.....FIRE PISTONS ...

http://www.africanxmag.com/the_fire_piston.htm

http://www.chm.bris.ac.uk/webprojects20 ... piston.htm

Where's the "Like" button?

[siddharthamahavira]

Dear members
My airgun seems to have suddenly become considerably smoother to cock and is bellowing a bit of smoke from the chamber as well as the barrel just after each shot. It is also accompanied by petrochemical smell as well as a sepia colored oil film obstructing the barrel which goes away with a gentle blow. It is a new SDB 35 with about 1500 shots through it in about a month.
I occasionally use cycle oil for the breech seal every few days. 3-4 drops around the breech overnight while trying to ensure that none of it gets into the breech or the chamber.
The smoking and the sepia film are independent of the frequency of oiling the seal as well as the number of shots. Like, even the 300th shot is followed by the same quantum of smoke, smell, and sepia film in the barrel.
Kindly help!
Thanks

[Mr.Shome]

I think, you are doing excessive dieseling by mistake, especially, if you are doing every few days.

I may be wrong and hope, more experienced members help you.

Also, it may be a good idea to post your introduction, as many people join this fabulous forum only for queries.

[siddharthamahavira]

You may be right, Mr Shome. Let's see how it behaves after a few weeks without any lubrication. Although I can't quite comprehend how a few drops could cause dieseling for literally hundreds of shots.

[4X4]

Once the lubrication dries up , it will go away. Springers require very little lubrication per 1000 shots.