Shotgun "off the face"

YouTube · Post by **mundaire** » Tue Sep 18, 2007 4:53 pm

Hi,

My shotgun - a 12 gauge SxS, boxlock, 65mm chambers, 28" choked barrels, of unknown Belgian make - is slightly off the face... has a bit of "play" in local parlance.

Was quite intrigued by the method employed by Rusty while having the same problem corrected in his own shotgun - see Brno Hard Hitter Deluxe, SxS, 12 gauge shotgun under the "For sale" section. He has mentioned in his post "The gun has been rejointed with the aid of a new hinge pin and locking latch. There is no longer any shake as mentioned earlier. ".

How expensive is this process? Does anyone know anyone in Delhi (or close by) who can perform a similar high quality job? I'd preferably like the gun done before mid-October.

Also, when the gun is opened for loading, the right hand sear does not engage properly unless the barrels are given a slightly harder downward nudge. This problem surfaced only last year, so I imagine it has something to do with wear and tear of some internal parts. What particular part(s) could be causing this problem and what are the possible solutions?

Would appreciate any information on both of these issues.

Cheers!
Abhijeet

Post by **Mack The Knife** » Tue Sep 18, 2007 7:32 pm

Abhijeet,

I paid the 'smith Rs.2,500.00 though I could have got by with lesser. However, since I was supervising the work, I thought he deserved his asking price for the pains that he took. I am still not satisfied with the stiffness of the opening lever - I'd like it to be a little easier to open.

Compared to the play on mine, yours has a huge amount of 'play' and definitely needs to be rejointed.

I recall that trigger not cocking only too well... When was the last time the gun was stripped and cleaned? It could possibly be nothing more than gunk rather than a mechanical failure.

Mack The Knife

shahid · Post by **shahid** » Tue Sep 18, 2007 8:09 pm

In Dehradoon there is an excellent mechanic who can fix this. Such problems do occur with use and Indian conditions particularly the humidity during monsoons.

Risala · Post by **Risala** » Tue Sep 18, 2007 8:10 pm

Abhijeet

In Delhi try Shamshudin Gun House near Delite,else K.K Sharma in Laxmi Nagar.

For a repair job I would go with the former,cause that is their speciality.

Outside Delhi try R K Singh in Ambala Cantt.His work is also very good have seen it.

HTH

Sanjay

YouTube · Post by **mundaire** » Wed Sep 19, 2007 8:19 am

Thanks for all your inputs guys.

Rusty, I am unable to strip the boxlock mechanism myself as I do not have the correct turnscrews and do not wish to damage the screws by using the wrong tools for the job. However, will take your advice and have it opened up for inspection in front of me...

Shahid, though we do have some property in Dehradun, I hardly ever visit the place, so a special trip to that city purely for this purpose would be unlikely... but thanks for the suggestion. Though it would be nice if you could post the name & contact details of the 'smith in question, it might come in handy for others...

Sanjay, I've heard mixed reviews of Shamshuddin... I had a rather poor experience with him myself in the mid-80's - when I'd taken my National Cadet CO2 air-rifle to him, for the simple job of getting the original sights replaced with micrometer adjustable sights (procured & provided by me). He completely botched up the front sight! I eventually had to give away the gun to a cousin, since adjusting the sights properly became impossible...

He does however have (or at least used to have) the contract for maintaining the SAI guns at The Karni Singh Shooting Ranges at Tuglaqabad... which probably explains why he seems to be well known amongst people in the shooting circuit...

Cheers!
Abhijeet

Post by **Mack The Knife** » Wed Sep 19, 2007 8:56 am

Rusty, I am unable to strip the boxlock mechanism myself as I do not have the correct turnscrews and do not wish to damage the screws by using the wrong tools for the job. However, will take your advice and have it opened up for inspection in front of me...

Abhijeet,

If the Bangalore gunsmiths are anything to go by, including the journeyman 'smith who did the rejointing for me, then you can be almost certain that they will be using tapered screwdrivers rather than parallel sided screwdrivers. What's more they rarely have all the right sizes and do end up burring the screw heads.

I took Grumpy's advice and bought my self a dumpy screwdriver and the bits and then ground them down to fit the respective slots. Did not do a good job of grinding them down evenly but it was sufficient for the intended purpose and did not damage the screwheads.

If you are not familiar with the internals of a shotgun, then like me, I suggest you take pictures at every stage. These will be a good reference in case you forget what goes where when putting the gun back.

I went a step further and put each individual part and screw in labelled ziplock bags.

Mack The Knife

Post by **cottage cheese** » Wed Sep 19, 2007 9:54 am

[quote="Mack The Knife Bana";p="27042"]

If you are not familiar with the internals of a shotgun, then like me, I suggest you take pictures at every stage. These will be a good reference in case you forget what goes where when putting the gun back.
I went a step further and put each individual part and screw in labelled ziplock bags.
Mack The Knife

[/quote]

Hi Abhijeet,

Rusty has put it very nicely and being meticulous as he describes, should be a habit with all tinkerers....me included.

As regards, disassembly of your shotgun, once you have suitable tools, it shouldn't be rocket-science by any measure. Most times its only those horrid flat springs that pose a challenge during reassembly. Often, these flat and very stiff springs are tucked into corners or slots that preclude the use of even flat spring vices.... and certainly it would be insane to have a purpose made jig for a one time job.

shahid · Post by **shahid** » Wed Sep 19, 2007 12:25 pm

How did this happen ? Have you been firing many Astrams in this 2 1/2 " chambered gun ? If yes then even some of us Bihari shooters have encountered this problem.

YouTube · Post by **mundaire** » Wed Sep 19, 2007 3:27 pm

shahid";p="27055 wrote: How did this happen ? Have you been firing many Astrams in this 2 1/2 " chambered gun ? If yes then even some of us Bihari shooters have encountered this problem.

Astram, Winchester, Lapua, Eley, Rottwiel... etc. Basically anything available... in India, we need to make do with what we get! Even tired some reloads done by me at home...

Cheers!
Abhijeet

shahid · Post by **shahid** » Wed Sep 19, 2007 3:59 pm

This is the reason. Refrain firing too many Astrams in 65 mm chambers. Firing 70 mm cartridges of 24 gram load is fine.

In our language it is called Gun Dhak ho gaya hai.

Solution - sell it to a guy who wants it only for home defence, not a regular skeet shooter like you who shoots regularly. WIll clean it every month, show his friends he has an ENglish gun from Birhingam WW greener or in Bihar WW Rodda or whatever is supreme.

And get yourself another one. FOr this gun you may manage a good 65 K to 80 K.

Risala · Post by **Risala** » Wed Sep 19, 2007 4:21 pm

shahid";p="27072 wrote:

Firing 70 mm cartridges of 24 gram load is fine.

.

Do Astrams come with a 24 g load

I think they come only in 32 grams,even the KF round is 30 g.

I am presuming that these loads are on the higher side when compared with ammo used abroad.

Sanjay

YouTube · Post by **mundaire** » Wed Sep 19, 2007 4:30 pm

Sanjay, 24 grams is the mandatory standard for ISSF shotgun events (it used to be 28 grams, but IIRC was lowered in the early 90's to 24) - hence it's use in shooting events here in India as well... However, no 24gram loads are currently manufactured in India, these are all imports that the shooters use.

Hunting loads would almost always be higher than the ISSF mandated 24 grams, 30 grams is usual (birdshot) for a 65mm cartridge and 32 grams for a 70mm cartridge... Of course overseas a wider variety of load combinations (as well as cartridge lengths) are available...

Cheers!
Abhijeet

P.S. - You are correct, Astrams do in fact come loaded with 32 grams shot and the KF "special" come with 30 gram shot...

shahid · Post by **shahid** » Wed Sep 19, 2007 5:18 pm

Sanjay - Astram is a 70 mm cartridge with a 32 gram shot load. Astram Magna is 34 grams.

The pack says - for competition shooting Astram is recommended but how I don't know because only 24 gram is allowed and no 7 1/2 and 9 or 9 1/2 is required, it is upto IOF to decide what they want in Astram Ki sifarish Ki jaati hai on KF special packs.

KF special the paper case cartridges used to be 1 / 16 oz or 30.1 grams now it is 30 grams.

shutzen · Post by **shutzen** » Wed Sep 19, 2007 7:15 pm

Mack The Knife

I took Grumpy's advice and bought my self a dumpy screwdriver and the bits and then ground them down to fit the respective slots. Did not do a good job of grinding them down evenly but it was sufficient for the intended purpose and did not damage the screwheads.

HI! Mack The Knife if u had invested money in the stubby screwdriver and wanted the blades reground then instead of the jugad drill spindle grinder u should have got it done from a dude with a tool and cutter grinder(these are special grinders to sharpen milling machine and other tool bits). U can get micrometer accuracy and superb finish

for a very nominal amount.

Post by **Mack The Knife** » Thu Sep 20, 2007 7:52 am

Good suggestion there, Shutzen. Think I will pick up some more bits and do as you suggest.

Thanks.

Mack The Knife

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Shotgun "off the face"

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