Bulletproof Vests

[Georgian21]

I wanted to know about the availablity for the bulletproof vests for civilain use (for self defence only) with following points:

1. The use of Bulletprrof vest - is it legal or illegal for self defence.
2. Availablity in India.
3. Reliability.
4. Brand and make.
5. If imported which one to take.

e.g. of one commercially available in US is:http://www.controlelectronic.com/bulletproof.htm

[Olly]

AFAIK bullet proof vests are illegal possession for civilians in India. It is a strictly restricted item, for use only by authorised personnel. Madura Coats people manufactured them in India though I don't think it is kevlar material.

[Sakobav]

Anupam

Do you have a link to this rule and by extension I assume import is also restricted. Although, I was unable to look it up on central excise website.
Last shoddy so called bullet proof jacket I saw in India ( 1992 ) was pouch bag with bullet proof glass on front and back. Damn thing was heavy and if bullets didnt get you, the mule bag would surely leave the person crippled with back aches.

Best

[Olly]

No... i just know by experience. Cops pounce on you the moment they see such stuff and you can't explain why you u possess a bullet-proof jacket if you are not authorised or given security protection. Then u are detained while they run a complete check on you thru the crime records database.

The shoddy ones here leave many a rib fractured... only kevlar can protect properly and is light too... protects only the torso though...

[Georgian21]

Guys,

Thanks for the information! I am happy to learn about the other type of vest available here. Is Kevlar one availabe here as that can be worn easily under the clothes. They claim to be stab proof also.

Any ideas of the laws and problems if the same are imported.

Cheers

[Mark]

The problem with bulletproof vests IMHO is the ones that are light enough to wear with clothes don't work that well at all, and the ones that do are simply too heavy and bulky to wear unless you think there is a good chance you'll be shot at. I suppose if the most dangerous caliber you'll likely come up against is a 22 or 32 the light ones should work, but my experiences have been they don't work all that well with heavier guns.

[eljefe]

try secondchance, I'm sure mark davis is still doing a superb job out there.

[cottage cheese]

Mark's got the points squared off.

There are several levels of protection specified by the NIJ or something... Threat Level II, II-A, II-B, III-A, III-B etc for instance. III is on the higher side (I'm sure some one can give a more elaborate lay out of this)

The use of the term 'Bullet Proof" is somewhat a misnomer - it would be more appropriate to call it "Body Armor" as thats just it. All soft armor (Kevlar, Spectra fiber etc) will provide limited protection to anything beyond pistol caliber. Most times, at normal engagement distance, they will not stop rifle caliber shots(Though they will blunt and dissipate a lot of the energy). For protection against rifle caliber ammo, one will require to top up your soft body armor with trauma plates usually of very dense steel alloy or sintered ceramic. The latter is much lighter though costlier and bulkier.

Trauma plates, for practical reasons, are limited only to the front and rear and most often offer approximately 1square foot of protected area. This area covers the critical body mass area where most organs other than the brain and your precious things reside. Typically this would offer you only direct frontal and rear protection- Very appropriate for an assault team storming an annoying place- Quite obviously, this paraphernalia would be absurd for a common civilian.

If permitted, most civilians would opt for or perhaps have no choice other than concealable vests. These are incredibly light and invisible but at the cost of some amount of bullet resistance. Yet again, something will be better than nothing if at all. Spectra fiber scores over Kevlar in terms of 'shelf live' and resistance to the 'elements' though at a cost.

At the risk of going off topic, one thing comes to mind - The Defence ministry wasted a good deal of resources in trying to create "Bullet Proof" apparel. All major militaries (US, UK, NATO...Israel etc) have seen no point in spending immense amounts of R&D and money in getting the soldier bullet proofed. Since most battle field casualties are the result of fragments and shrapnel from explosive ordnance (Artillery, Mines, IEDs), they figured the protection should be primarily tailored for such. Soft body armor offers just such a protection level against relatively low velocity fragments. Our great defence research folks actually tried to lump the soldier with a 9.5 kilo 'vest' which was simply composed of two hardened 0.5" thick steel plates front and back, stuffed into a camouflage vest of cotton drill cloth and foam padding. No doubt it was fully bullet proof where the plates were. But it was incredibly uncomfortable and no doubt, seriously dulled the flexibility, speed and stamina of the soldier. The rear plate was not even contoured and was instead a flat plate approximating 1 square foot.

The inch thick foam padding kept the armor well away from body contact and consequently left an open unprotected gap on the flanks spanning almost 8 inches. I personally know of some casualties as a result of flank injuries. The helmet resembled the Egyptian design and again was pointlessly heavy, comprising simply of a steel cylinder. The top was simply foam and cotton padding!

Apparently this design died a quick death in defense circles and most seem to have been seconded to police and the CRPF where they are unpopular as ever. Currently much of the Army is using a much more sensible soft body armor(Which I assume is Kevlar) The Army folks at IFg can give more substantial info on this.

Sorry for the digression.

Also keep in mind that almost all soft body armor or "bullet proof" vests will offer next to no protection against stabbing knife or blade attacks. I heard of some manufacturers who placed a layer of fine chain mail in their body armor to protect against knife attacks.

Go ahead and buy a concealable vest if you find it possible. Its better than nothing.

[mashh1]

very comerehensivly described by CC. cc there are now level1 and 2 vests which have side coverage. these vests are not allowed for civilians at my side while you(OP) certainly check local laws. although level three vests provide good coverage, injuries by shock and trauma can break a rib or two. a domestic vest is in the range of PKR 100K, here is the link of a local coompany who make vests.
Lyra

[penpusher]

Mark,

BG's don't bother about prohibited non-prohibited bore and just get the most powerful firearm that they can.And at a fraction of the price of legally held firearms.

penpusher

[Grumpy]

So-called `bullet proof` vests only provide limited protection against pistol calibre bullets and only top quality level III-A vests which, typically, have 30-32 layers of Kevlar are designed to protect against 1400 fps 9mm Para FMJ sub-machine gun rounds. With the padding these are bulky jackets as you might imagine. A good quality level II vest would probably prevent the penetration of the 9mm Para round detailed but serious injury or even death would probably result because of the inadequate blunt trauma impact protection.
For protection against a .308 NATO FMJ rifle round a level III vest is required - with 6mm ballistic steel plates or 13mm ceramic plates and 27mm polyethylene.
Against a .30 calibre armour piercing bullet a level IV vest with 12mm ballistic steel plates or 18mm ceramic plates is required. Both the later vests are both very bulky and very heavy.
There are also plates made of artificial, plastics type materials nowadays.
By the way, after the first shot the plate material is compromised and a second shot in the same location will probable penetrate the armour.
The protection used by many military personnel are not `bullet proof vests` at all but flak jackets which are designed to protect against shrapnel with limited effectiveness against bullet penetration.
The most effective systems are not available to private individuals but only to the military.
You`ll find that there are only one or two companies whose products are recommended - alternatives can be worst than useless because of their poor quality and the false confidence they induce.
Probably the best available body armour/bullet proof vests can be found at:
http://www.pointblankarmor.com/
Don`t make the mistake of thinking that an anti-stab vest is the same as ballistic body armour - it isn`t. The requirements to protect against being stabbed are very different to those for protection against bullets and an anti-stab vest will NOT protect against being shot.

[diskaon]

Recently met an army capt posted in J&K. they had a bad experence with bullet proof jackets..

the one that the officer was wearing was essentially two thick steel plates..one for the front and one in the back. a stray bullet entered from the front - missed the edge of the front plate, hit the rear plate and the rebounded a couple of times between the front and rear plates. in the absence of a bullet proof jacket he would have only got a 1/2 inch cut below his ribs.. it was instant death for the officer. very unfortunate.

[Mack The Knife]

Are you saying that the bullet went through the officer's torso a couple of time or more whilst it was rebounding off front and back plate?

If so, I find that hard to believe.

Mack The Knife

[Grumpy]

I don`t find it `hard` to believe......................................
`Impossible` is the word that I`d use.

[Grumpy]

Oh, and as for the `half inch cut`.......... Is that supposed to be half an inch of penetration ? And if so, how can a bullet that hits a soldier who isn`t wearing a vest just make a half inch cut yet the soldier who is wearing one ( which the bullet misses ) has the bullet bounce backwards and forwards through his body between the plates ?
According to that the guy without the vest was shot with an air-rifle and the other guy died of total bullsh*t.