Diana 35 import story

[Mack The Knife]

It says there is a 35 % duty on Spring / Gas Air rifles. Where does it mention import in personal baggage is allowed and the calibres allowed ?

Shahid, this exim policy has been in force well before the notification of 4th July, 2005. Before this airguns could only be imported as part of one's personal baggage, so it can only mean that it is refering to airguns brought in as part of one's personal luggage and nothing else.

Unlike the later notification which which states that only .177" calibre airguns can be ordered via post or courier, the exim policy does not say that the airgun being imported has to be in .177" calibre. If there is such a ruling, I would like to see it.

[kanwar76]

So Shahid according to you all air guns which came in to country as personal baggage before this notification were bought in illegally? And this notification actually a bad development?

-Inder

[Mack The Knife]

This other method of going to a police station and shooting a few shots on a wooden board to prove it is a toy and not a firearm, is not possible because the gun was retained at the customs.

In case you need to do it the next time around, the following is the procedure that is followed by Bombay Customs.

http://www.indiansforguns.com/viewtopic.php?t=624

Then why did the custom people behave differently with me ?

Did you act high and mighty as you are in the habit of doing? Customs do not take too kindly to people with attitude.

The scope aside, you then thrusted a notification under their noses. In this case it happened to be a notification that deals with airgun imports via post and courier NOT personal baggage. Right or wrong, officials do not like to be told something they ought to know, especially if the manner is a bit brusque. Once they realised you did not have a club membership, they knew they had you over the barrel.

Ofcourse, this is all conjecture as I wasn't there to witness the rogering....

Mack The Knife

[shahid]

God it was 3 AM when I arrived in Delhi. And I was carrying an AIr Rifle with me, perfectly aware of the problems ahead.

I had behaved in a most modest manner all along, the usual Sir, Sir, huzoor, Maai Baap, Bhaiya style. I love shooting sports and this Diana 35 was to plink all day long in Patna or shoot a few challenging targets. I had carried 2 full boxes of Gamo targets.

So rather than any kind of high handedness or fooishness, my concern was to get over with it quickly, get out, get hold of some India money and get on to the domestic terminal for the flight to Patna.

The customs official on hearing the declration said import of Air Rifles is not allowed. Perhaps he was ill informed. What is told to customs official or not I have no idea, and I am no authority.

When shown the piece of paper listed above he said fine, if a membership card is produced of district/state/national rifle association this gun will be released provided it is .177. He has already been convinced that it is .177.

This is my personal experience. I reported here what I faced. How others imported Air Rifles, with or without membership cards, or by post does not concern me, I cannot comment on their legal or illegal status for I am in no position to do so, and I do not have enough knowledge on the subject, so I am not qualified to comment.

I have posted just my experience, for benfit of members. Why is Guru Inder calling me a Lair ? It is impolite and makes no sense and holds no relevence with the issue under discussion.

As for my personal opinion, Air Rifle is not a firearm and its import for all calibres should be unrestricted.

If the govt. has made a concession and allowed import of .177 only, it is welcome as a good begining.

All said and done there is still no documentary proof that :

What calibres can be imported in personal baggage.
What is the duty rate ( perhaps 35 % )
Can it be imported in personal baggage without a Rifle club membership card ?

Abhijeet is going to find out the correct information for the benefit of all. I hope he is able to gather all the information we need on this matter.

Meanwhile the only alternative for me is to quickly get the Bihar Rifle Association card organized. The pace of work is pathetic in Bihar.

I am also afraid that by now the custom authorities would have auctioned my air rifle with other siezed goods. It has been over 5 months now. Not sure how long they hold it before disposal, six months ? A year.

It is stored in a very high quality Vanguard Rifle case, but I am not sure whether it has gathered rust or not. The area is temperature controlled if it is still in the ante room next to customs area in arrival hall.

If not no problem. Once I get hold of the BRA cards, I'll bring in more Diana 35s.

On the brighter side one very good discovery on this trip was that a National. IHP model 35 in .22 calibre that I have had for over a decade, can actually shoot very well upto 30 / 35 yards with good quality imported light weight pellets.

I had carried a couple of tins for myself but ended up giving away those too to enthusiastic shooters.

[Mack The Knife]

God it was 3 AM when I arrived in Delhi. And I was carrying an AIr Rifle with me, perfectly aware of the problems ahead.

I had behaved in a most modest manner all along, the usual Sir, Sir, huzoor, Maai Baap, Bhaiya style. I love shooting sports and this Diana 35 was to plink all day long in Patna or shoot a few challenging targets. I had carried 2 full boxes of Gamo targets.

If that was the case, then I too am at a loss as they are invariably decent chaps and usually don't bother about silly things like airguns.

Perhaps it was the scope, perhaps they were just expecting some Vitamin M. Guess we will never know.

Mack The Knife

P.S.: If I were you, I wouldn't keep repeating that you will be bring in more airguns once you get your card (sounds like a commercial venture, rather than an individual one). Especially since you have asked Delhi customs to keep an eye on IFG.

[kanwar76]

Hmmmm Guru Inder

Shahid.. I know what you did at Delhi airport and what notification you showed them now don't ask me how I know that because I really don't like broken families


And as far as calling you liar.. Hmmmmm Oh ya you bought a venom HW80 in Dubai and yah you have been on pigeon hunting safari with a certain owner of a gun company with a co2 pistol... Kuch bulb jala

Have fun buddy.. and stop beating the drum that .22 is not allowed as personal baggage just because you made a fool out of yourself at Delhi..

-Inder

[Mack The Knife]

and stop beating the drum that .22 is not allowed as personal baggage just because you made a fool out of yourself at Delhi.

This one has been confusing me lately.

I was under the impression that he had brought in a .22" calibre Diana 35 and hence the public and private messages that I was giving wrong information (that may be the case but I haven't seen this ban on .22" cal. in black and white yet. The exim policy regarding personal baggage certainly makes no mention of it.).
However, his posts on this thread claim that the rifle was in .177" calibre....

I know what you did at Delhi airport

Namely? If he has not given a factual account on this thread, then he is just wasting people's time. It's complicated enough without one having to wonder whether one is dealing with fact or fiction.

E-mail me if you don't want to make it public.

Mack The Knife

[shahid]

Hmmmm Guru Inder

Shahid.. I know what you did at Delhi airport and what notification you showed them now don't ask me how I know that because I really don't like broken families


And as far as calling you liar.. Hmmmmm Oh ya you bought a venom HW80 in Dubai and yah you have been on pigeon hunting safari with a certain owner of a gun company with a co2 pistol... Kuch bulb jala

Have fun buddy.. and stop beating the drum that .22 is not allowed as personal baggage just because you made a fool out of yourself at Delhi..

-Inder

Again I am at a loss of words here , not understanding your strange behaviour. Yes I bought a .22 HW 80 in Dubai. Got it upgraded with a venom Kit that not Webley but some other maker in the UK makes and sells now.

For that matter a picture of this HW 80 can be posted here, no big issue, what are you trying to portray that HW 80 is not sold in this market or something ? Or about the venom kits ? I remember I had myself written an article on IFG in last February or March on this issue that Venom kits for many Air Rifles are available by a certain maker. Besides in the UK there are other facilities for great polish, and upgrades or barrel and stock finish. What is so strange about this that I am a Liar ? This is issue 1.


Issue 2 -

Someone from Umarex came to Dubai for Abu Dhabi Hunting exhibition, he was listening to customers complaints, he wanted to improve repair and workshop standards for the local dealerships, we became friendly and went out on a desert safari. This is also fine and needs no expert judgement from you.

Issue - 3

On Delhi Customs

The sequence of events is absolutely what is described above. The document listed above was shown to the Delhi customs officials.

When I am saying I showed them this, this is what I had, and this is what I have reproduced here from the mini TD Drive I was carrying on that trip what is this other document theory you are harping ? If you know of some other document that I produced before Delhi customs show it here. There is obviously none.

The Delhi customs officials said import of Air RIfles is banned. Perhaps they were ill informed. No harm in that, they don't come across people bringing Air Rifles in their baggage every day.

On seeing the said notification, they agreed that as of 2005, import of .177 Air Rifle is allowed subject to production of membership card of district / state / national rifle association as this notification clearly states.

Later from a published Custom Tariff and rules book in the Custom commisioner's office on Delhi AIrport, the same portion of the text was found and referred to.

The comissioner had a computer with internet connection. While having tea with him, I introduced him to IFG and asked him to refer to IFG as a source to update information on Arms laws in India for all such info will be posted, updated and discussed here. Not to keep an eye on IFG. The custom official also mentioned that his 16 year old son has an Air Rifle and interested in shooting sports. I told him to ask his son to Join IFG and benefit from a shared knowledge pool.

I agree that customs officials may be ill informed towards the rule. Today the general perception in India is absolutely adverse towards shooting sports. ANybody importing an AIr Rifle is looked upon as a trouble maker rather than a potential medal prospect.

With such a mindset, expecting such an attitude with customs officials is not unusual or unexpected.

I wrote all these clarifications just to let you all know that I was not misbehaving or pulling my weight with the customs officials. I had behaved in a polite and co-operative manner.

As to why my gun was seized and other's was allowed by declaring Air Rifles in personal baggage, I do not have an explaination for this. Perhaps my bad luck.

The custom officials were and are actually co-operating. All they want is a Bihar Rifle association card to be produced, in all likelyhood they will release this Air Rifle on production of this membership card.

I had merely tried bringing in this rifle for the experience and making the results of this experiment public on IFG for the benefit of members. We have other Diana rifles in Patna, besides BSA and National.

If anyone wishes to try again bringing in a .22 Air Rifle as personal baggage I will be eager to hear of the outcome and experience. At the moment there is no documentary evidance on this, all hearsay.

Lets see what comes out of the information seeking mission from Indian Customs. Perhaps there are published rules in this regard.

As for this seized Air Rifle, I'll try to get hold of a BRA card and give another try in getting it released.

The comment on my family members is also in poor taste. Your information be wrong, misinterpreted, misunderstood, because this said family member of mine was not present at the site, neither was he there in Delhi. What he would have told you is obviously filtered down information in bits and pieces.

[eljefe]

P.S.: If I were you, I wouldn't keep repeating that you will be bring in more airguns once you get your card (sounds like a commercial venture, rather than an individual one). Especially since you have asked Delhi customs to keep an eye on IFG.

Shahid, I would reiterate Mack The Knifes advice.
Axx

[Mack The Knife]

The Delhi customs officials said import of Air RIfles is banned.

On seeing the said notification, they agreed that as of 2005, import of .177 Air Rifle is allowed subject to production of membership card of district / state / national rifle association as this notification clearly states.

IF that was the scenario, I think I can guess at what might have happened.

1) The customs officials did not know the rules regarding import of airguns as part of one's baggage or they were trying to scare you into coughing up some Vitamin M.

2) However, on being shown the notification, they either accepted that they were unaware of the rules or realised that their bluff had been called and needed to save face.

If only you had shown them the old but still current (as far as I know) exim policy instead of the notification regarding import via post or courier, I think you would have walked out with the rifle but most probably minus the scope.

The comissioner had a computer with internet connection. While having tea with him, I introduced him to IFG and asked him to refer to IFG as a source to update information on Arms laws in India for all such info will be posted, updated and discussed here. Not to keep an eye on IFG.

Fair enough, I will buy that but I cannot resist chuckling at the thought of the Customs visiting IFG to find out what the current import policy happens to be.

Mack The Knife

[shahid]

Why, with so many members discussing and posting updated policy / rules if any, it is a good source for current information. Don't they buy privately publsihed books to refer to on custom tariffs and rules ? No harm in referring to a private Web site.

Scope was not such an issue, since it was a great vanguard case the safest place to protect the scope, it was in there. It was unsighted of course, just mounted. A high quality single mount block ( Nikko Sterling ) and mounting tools were seperate. It was screwed on with origanal GAMO rings.

I wouldn't mind leaving the scope there at all. I would be happy to get the .177 Diana 35 out. It's a very nice, good shooting, well balanced Air Rifle, and the Vanguard case, for transporting this or other Rifles from place to place.

I would be most interested to get hold of a copy of this exim policy for I wish to bring and HW80 or 80K in .22 for my personal use.

[kanwar76]

Oh if I am not wrong you posted that you bought HW80 with venom internals and even a member from here visited all dealers in Dubai but never found any Venom kit... oh just to refresh your memory see this

http://indiansforguns.com/viewtopic.php ... light=hw80

And i never said anything about your family and if you or any of your family member got hurt then i am sorry for that..

Have fun and thanks for telling Delhi Customs about IFG..thats very intelligent of you super job

-Inder

[shahid]

The Delhi customs officials said import of Air RIfles is banned.

On seeing the said notification, they agreed that as of 2005, import of .177 Air Rifle is allowed subject to production of membership card of district / state / national rifle association as this notification clearly states.

IF that was the scenario, I think I can guess at what might have happened.

1) The customs officials did not know the rules regarding import of airguns as part of one's baggage or they were trying to scare you into coughing up some Vitamin M.

2) However, on being shown the notification, they either accepted that they were unaware of the rules or realised that their bluff had been called and needed to save face.

If only you had shown them the old but still current (as far as I know) exim policy instead of the notification regarding import via post or courier, I think you would have walked out with the rifle but most probably minus the scope.

The comissioner had a computer with internet connection. While having tea with him, I introduced him to IFG and asked him to refer to IFG as a source to update information on Arms laws in India for all such info will be posted, updated and discussed here. Not to keep an eye on IFG.

Fair enough, I will buy that but I cannot resist chuckling at the thought of the Customs visiting IFG to find out what the current import policy happens to be.

Mack The Knife

I am most interested in getting a soft or digital copy ( to print ) of this old exim policy. If I have this exim policy it will help my case greatly.

I would definetely like to import a HW80 or better still an HW80K in .22 calibre for my personal use. If this exim policy document would help me do so I would be the happiest person.

[shahid]

Again Inder saheb, I maintain that HW 80 and upgrade kits are available in Dubai. SO are other teflon washers, seals, pistons and other spare parts.

There are dealers, all buying directly from various manufacturers in Europe, UK and now USA as well for a lot of Daisy and Winchester ( made by Daisy ) products are being sold here.

The other IFG members who went shopping for Air Rifles in Dubai were not with me or did not contact me, so I cannot be held liable for their comment that HW 80 is not available in Dubai.

I arrive in London. Do not look up the directory or contact anyone. I waste a few hours going around Bond street or Piccadely and then write a post Holland and Holland is not available in England ? What would one make of such a post ? Obviously rubbish.

I did go through the old posts, Hunter mentioned he could not find HW80, then he said he saw HW 80 somewhere, If you ask for HW80 as en English gun there will be confusion, it is German. Tuning kits by V mach or anyone else are sold seperately, not pre installed. There are other makers too whose kits are available, so are many springs and spares, i did carry some and gave it to other IFG members ? So where are lies in these events ?

[kanwar76]

Sir jee,

Aap mahan hain.. maan gaye aapko....

Now when you have enlighten us so much about your experience.. can you please also let us know which Diana 35 was that which you sold to somebody in Bangalore.. I am just curious not doubting you this time...

-Inder