1962 CJ3B restoration advice - petrol or diesel engine?

sat · Post by **sat** » Tue Jul 24, 2007 1:40 am

A left hand drive 1962 CJ3B jeep & trailer will be going to the workshop for complete restoration. Plan on doing a through job. painting, complete suspension, new canvas top, seats, new electricals, transmission & differential etc with a new engine

Unfortunately a kirloskar diesel engine was fitted 5-7 years ago which need to retire, the original gear box & transfer case is still in use. This Jeep is now going to used to take foreign tourist for rural rambles in the countryside.

One option, which i prefer, is too purchase & fit the original pertrol hurricane engine, the other is too purchase a diesel engine for economy.

Jeep will run approx 12,000 km per year. approx petrol cost - 60,000/- per year
for diesel engine - approx diesel cost - 35,000/- per year

A friend had a Isuzu diesel engine with 5 speed gearbox & transfer case fitted last year in his CJ3B, he is very happy with his diesel CJ3B Jeep.

Diesel engine suggestion have been from the simple DI, MDI to 2nd hand isuzu or toyota diesels..

Could someone suggest where I can purchase original spareparts for the jeep, free wheeling hubs etc ... have a long list...

sat

Django · Post by **Django** » Tue Jul 24, 2007 7:29 am

Sat,

Please join groups.yahoo.com/jeep_thrills

Best source of information for your Jeep and its related projects, one of the mod, Arka is a good friend of mine, he is also a good source of info on your JEEP having build and restored myriads of JEEPS himself from WW-II to CJ3.

sat · Post by **sat** » Tue Jul 24, 2007 2:34 pm

Thank you Django..

Sat

jeep thrills forum....

Jeep Thrills - home page

Risala · Post by **Risala** » Tue Jul 24, 2007 8:29 pm

Sat

Cant access the site for some reason it say accessing from an invalid IP add

Sanjay

Post by **Mark** » Tue Jul 24, 2007 9:35 pm

Sat,

Try this link:

http://www.film.queensu.ca/CJ3b/PartsLinks.html

Send me PM if you want me to track anything special down for you.

My personal opinion is that since you are using this as part of a business to provide tourists with something additional to do, I would install a modern engine, preferably a diesel, for the increased reliability as well as economy. Even when rebuilt, a 50 year old engine is still a 50 year old engine with all the problems they had back then too. For this application you need something that can sit for a couple of weeks and will then have someone just get into it and turn the key and expect it to start right up.

Personally, I'd ideally replace the entire motor/transmission/transfer case assembly with something 5 years old salvaged out of a wrecked vehicle somewhere. I'd still save all the old parts in case you want to restore this to original in another 10 years but for now reliability and economy is more important.

Should you decide to go with an original petrol engine, send me a PM as many years ago I designed an electronic ignition module that uses the original points, I can dig up the schematic for you and it will prevent you from ever having to purchase points again. (A company called Velleman also makes a kit to do the same thing, but I like my design better but you also have to track down all the parts yourself).

Mark

sat · Post by **sat** » Wed Jul 25, 2007 12:34 am

mark,

Thank you, I agree with what you had to say about the diesel engine & tranny but the heart says go with petrol.

Am on the look out for another 4wd jeep with diesel engine for the business.

This CJ3B was bought new from the factory by grandfather, the jeep has been all over India for several shikar camps in the 60's.

Sanjay,

Try jeep_thrills

Sat

Post by **Mark** » Wed Jul 25, 2007 2:53 am

This CJ3B was bought new from the factory by grandfather

Say no more other than this, that is good enough for me too!

Django · Post by **Django** » Sun Jul 29, 2007 6:36 pm

For serious off roading nothing beats the tractability of diesel, plus in water, diesel is way more reliable.

YouTube · Post by **mundaire** » Mon Jul 30, 2007 5:19 pm

Hi Sat,

Sorry for taking so long to get on this thread! Now, lemme jump right in with my 0.02$ worth

Personally I would strongly recommend you steer clear of the engine transplant option! While the Isuzu engine never did give me any problems (besides repeatedly failing PUC tests), the various "creative solutions" we had to implement to get things going did - and often!! Another (and IMHO) a much better option, is to get a good mechanic to refine your existing petrol engine to give you better performance/ mileage. There are plenty of after market drop in parts available in USA for the CJ3B "Hurricane" engine and the early 1950's technology can be coaxed into much better performance with by replacing the original parts with some of these... A better carb is something to consider, next in line is changing the original condenser coil with a better one to give a stronger spark or better still take Mark's advice and change the CB point ignition system with an electronic one, but by far the best improvement in performance can be gained by changing the original intake and exhaust manifolds (especially the latter) along with fitting a freer flow exhaust system... If you are considering getting parts fabricated here, you may want to contact specialist shops that tune cars for rally's - they should be able to take care of all of the above mods quite easily.

In terms of reliability, the single biggest problem are the electrics... if you can replace these with a better system, maybe a custom made wiring set and better fuse box/ fuses etc.

From the safety point of view, do consider getting a diagonally split master cylinder to replace the original brake master cylinder. This was fitted as OEM in the later civvie models like the Mahindra Classic, and should prove to be easy to procure & fit. Taking it one step further you could replace the entire baking system with the much better front disk/ rear drums system used in the Mahindra classic, but this may be a tad expensive.

For economy, I would have recommend you get a gas kit - but since CNG/ LPG availability in your area is a question mark, I guess this option is out. No original Jeep has EVER sported a diesel engine... and honest to god, it just drives smoother and sounds a lot better with the gasoline option!

Having said the above - one of my (maternal) uncle's has had a lifelong obsession with converting every single one of his petrol vehicles into diesel, amongst the ones he's done - several Jeeps, a Jonga, an Esteem (don't even ask me why

), and finally a Gypsy... And I have yet to visit his place, without seeing him coming out of the garage with black greasy hands, shrugging and saying "car trouble - be with you in a minute"

Don't get me wrong - I love cars, engines and general mechanics... BUT when I walk out and turn the key in the ignition I do EXPECT the damn thing to work 99% of the time.... if you know what I am talking about... Incidentally, he finally caved in this time and bought himself a brand new diesel car (a Scorpio) in stead of buying yet another project... guess age catching up with him!

Is an army disposal vehicle worth the hassle? Well, if you are going in for a CJ3B, then most certainly.... the buggers had jacked up the prices for a short time (during the time I got mine)

but I believe the MLA/ MP rate is now back to 28k or so... Just keep a couple of things in mind when picking out the vehicle from the Central Vehicles Depot, Delhi (which is where I imagine you'll be getting it from) :-

a) "THE MAN" is that chap in dirty overalls who walks out with you while you "select" your vehicle! He KNOWS which one is a lemon and which one was an honest to god "Staff car"/ "Parade vehicle" - obviously a true blue forward base Jeep which has been rogered by one and all is something you would not want...

b) Be nice to him - it helps both in picking out a mechanically better vehicle as well as getting him to ensure that small bits and bobs of original kit are miraculously complete when you come to pick it up... in stead of being "lost in transit".

c) Avoid buying parts from Mayapuri unless it's absolutely imperative - they are almost always "duplicate" and can screw up your vehicle... Hunting through the automotive parts market next to Kashmiri gate, though painful, will ensure that you get the proper part... Those guys will almost always tell you before the sale if the part it a copy or the real Mc coy!

d) If you want to source an original CJ3B petrol engine to replace the current diesel one - besides Mayapuri also consider making a trip to Dabwali in Haryana. This is probably the single largest Jeep rebuilding/ reconditioning operation in the world. A large part of the town's economy is based around this trade and since almost everyone throws out the petrol engine and replace it with a diesel, these should be easy to source and pretty cheap to buy. Dabwali would also be a good source for procuring all types of original military issue Jeep "kit"... The single hardest part of kit to get these days of course are the original "gun mounts" that used to come on army Jeeps earlier...

HTH

Cheers!
Abhijeet

Django · Post by **Django** » Mon Jul 30, 2007 6:53 pm

A word of caution about Dhabwali, having visited there recently, plenty of fakes, from fake restored CJ3 which is nothing but a used Commander cut up to make it SWB to fake parts as well, most of them deal with retroffting Toyota engines, no harm but its total JUGARU, no 4WD and visit to mechanic a must every week.

sat · Post by **sat** » Mon Jul 30, 2007 8:41 pm

Abhijeet/Django,

Thank you for your informative post, much appreciated.

Just thought I add some images of the jeep...

sat

YouTube · Post by **mundaire** » Mon Jul 30, 2007 11:17 pm

Django";p="24127 wrote: A word of caution about Dhabwali, having visited there recently, plenty of fakes, from fake restored CJ3 which is nothing but a used Commander cut up to make it SWB to fake parts as well, most of them deal with retroffting Toyota engines, no harm but its total JUGARU, no 4WD and visit to mechanic a must every week.

Django, I have also seen CJ3B's converted to a low bonnet style and passed off as "original" low hood CJ2's

Of course a sharp eye and a good dose of common sense is essential while dealing with these chaps (as with mechanics everywhere)!

Anyhow, Sat if you do intend to go to Dhabwali, it's not that far from my maternal place (Hisar) and if you wish we could co-ordinate the trip... will make sure an old "Dhabwali expert" accompanies us...

BTW - nice pics of the old beaut! Quite like the slate grey colour scheme... and nice to see that she still sports the original MS tyres... though for your kind of terrain street radials might be a better bet...

I can see several "mods" have already been made to the vehicle... most obvious is the configuration of the soft top frame... the rods are all after market fitments... the rear forward facing seat is missing... anyhow, these are minor things that can be taken care of, if you so wish... the condition looks splendid and I think this is a project worth taking up!

Django, whenever you make it down to Delhi - do drop me a line... would love to sit and talk 4WD's with you!

Sat - your brother has not called yet...

Cheers!
Abhijeet

Django · Post by **Django** » Tue Jul 31, 2007 8:47 am

mundaire,

Whenver you are coming down to Chandigarh, do drop in, would love to talk 4WD over a shot of Islay or Laphroaig.

Home made Sham-e-Kabab included.

YouTube · Post by **mundaire** » Tue Jul 31, 2007 2:57 pm

Django";p="24144 wrote: mundaire,

Whenver you are coming down to Chandigarh, do drop in, would love to talk 4WD over a shot of Islay or Laphroaig. Home made Sham-e-Kabab included.

Thank you for the generous offer... Laphroaig is one of my favourite whiskeys! Will be sure to drop you a line if I'm the area...

Cheers!
Abhijeet

Django · Post by **Django** » Tue Jul 31, 2007 6:13 pm

Laphroaig and Bushmills are among the best on my list undoubtedly.

Indians For Guns

Indians For Guns