depression and difficulties.

[dev]

Hi Grumpy,

Please don't . I am one of the idiots who thought that this guy was a real shooter. We have lost enough. Don't know what Rusty wrote but don't turn your badge and colt in.

Someone still has to clear up tombstone and dodge, so don't turn the hogsleg in just yet.

So master have some tea and please keep teaching us gunfu.

Dev

[Mack The Knife]

Hardly Mack The Knife. I`ve decided that I`d rather be a rank and file member with the option to call the ar*eholes `ar*eholes` without all this stupid yellow card business and - supposedly - being even-handed and polite to the miscreants. Something, frankly, that also isn`t working.

I couldn't agree more and my views on the subject have already been aired in the moderators section. Frankly all that, "Friendliest gun forum on the internet" clap trap never works.

Nothing wrong to keep a couple of mods to weed out spam, ill thought out posts, etc. but it's about time we got rid of the pussy footing.

Mack The Knife

[Mack The Knife]

Don't know what Rusty wrote

Illegitimi non carborundum = Don't let the b@st@rds grind you down.

[dev]

Well said.

Dev

[Risala]

Mods,you folks are doing a fantastic job and it is greatly appreciated.

It is not for the first time that people have had to be banned,and definitely not the last,

albeit in this case it should have happened in the first instance.

My 2 cents,yellow cards if awarded should lead to an immediate suspension of all rights and previleges from the forum for at least 2 weeks.

That will give the member some time to reflect on his indiscretion.

Any personal attack immediate ban,no need to tolerate crap just flush it out of the system.

Now back to guns,ammo & fishing.

I got lucky,reeled in my first one or rather first few yesterday,it was a fantastic day spent with some wonderful people aka the PHG

Lot's of learning,fun with a lot more to come in the future.

Cheers

Sanjay

[snIPer]

This is a much bigger loss to this forum to loose two Moderators in relative short time because of few bad apples.
Rgds

Am i missing something here??? who are the mods who left (sorry for the direct question - havent been actively going thru all the posts here (recently)).

[Mack The Knife]

My 2 cents,yellow cards if awarded should lead to an immediate suspension of all rights and previleges from the forum for at least 2 weeks.

Mark has suggested something similar though less draconian but Abhijeet is unsure if such a thing is possible with the present software.

Any personal attack immediate ban,no need to tolerate crap just flush it out of the system.

There's personal attacks and personal attacks. We need to be flexible on this. I am all for members blowing off a bit of steam if need be without resorting to bans or cards. Trust me when I say, that there have been many antagonists who have become very good friends once they have aired their feelings.

I got lucky,reeled in my first one or rather first few yesterday,it was a fantastic day spent with some wonderful people aka the PHG

Where's the trip report then? If it's on IA, post a link to it. You can now consider yourself well and truly hooked and welcome to the world of additional expenses, as if guns and ammo weren't enough. Congrats! Was Anupam there?

Mack The Knife

[shutzen]

HI! I was a member of this site under the alis "shutzen" till penpusher Singh alleged that I was a "misleading liar" and banned me before I had a chance to reply to his wild allegations. I think it is a serious thing to call someone a liar and then ban him without even giving him a chance to respond. I know It is against the board policy for banned users to post under a different alias but I felt I had to clear my name and anyways I have always tried to provide proper and correct info always. Abhijit Ithink you are a fair person and its your site so the decision is yours I guess. I appologize for using up some of the bandwidth of ur site by putting up this reply but I guess I just felt that sukpreet & grumpy have gone a bit too far and I am making it point just to proove and expose them as the hippcryites they are. I am posting the following in my defence and you can be the
judge:

penpusher : "A.You are a liar who is deliberately posting misleading information here. "
ANS: please see below and it will turn out that you my friend are a liar and not me
1. penpusher : "i)There is no constitutional right to bear arms in India.It is a 'privilege' granted under a statute and can be suspended/revoked or

withdrawn completely:
ANS: Well at least the " privilege: is there and the babus have to repect that right. Both the constitution and the notification can be amended at any

time by the Govt. so it really makes no diff. Enjoy it while it lasts.

2. penpusher : "ii)There is no 6 month deadline to issue an arms license. "

ANS: scanned page from the INDIAN ARM ACT published by Law Publishers(India) Pvt. Ltd. page 14 - Section 14 clearly states that there is a period of three months for issue of the licence - Pll have filed cases and won on this. Sadly the babus circumvent this by putting a querry or raising some objection and put the matter in limbo. U can read the para at top for yourself.

scan of arms act portion:

http://s196.photobucket.com/albums/aa26 ... sact-1.jpg

3. penpusher : "iii)Your story of taking on the Secretary Home is a blatant lie.The Home Secretary has got nothing to do with the enhancement of

ammo quotas.The application for this is submitted to the G.A.[A.C.(G)] in the DM's office and the DM/ADM is the competent authority to sanction the enhanced quotas."
Grumpy : "He has justified the licencing system on the basis that any problems can be ironed out by those who could afford it by paying bribes. "
ANS: Sukpreet for your Information I had applied to the DM Chandigarh's office - thats where my licence was made and renewed before I took up

competition shooting. He forwarded the case to the Home Secretary and the scanned copy of my licence clearly mentions that the ammo

enhancement is being done on the orders of the Home Secretary . Now who's the liar my friend?
I am scanning and attaching the following:

1. page on my arms licence clearly showing my ammo was enhanced by the Home Secretarys order to 1000 at one tine and 10000 during the year.

http://s196.photobucket.com/albums/aa26 ... icence.jpg

2. Pic of the correspondance files with the DM & Home Secys office regarding my request for ammo anhancement. Please see the thickness of the files and see the number of visitors passes attached - Now if I was to use influence or pay bribes do u think I would have to spent so much time and effor to get my work done? I love the sport and to meet the ends needed for fulfilment I went through the sarkari challange just like anyone else and took on the system and fought to get my rights. My files in the DC office are 1 inch thick

http://s196.photobucket.com/albums/aa26 ... =files.jpg

[shutzen]

photo of my files with the visitor passes :

http://s196.photobucket.com/albums/aa26 ... =files.jpg

3. Scan of press clipping highligting the ammo problem faced by my son and me. If u read through it the facts will talk for themselves. just to save bandwith I am only posting one clippping - I have about 10 of them relating to the ammo problem in various newspapers in eng., Hindi and Punjabi.

sorry the site is not accepting pic uploads so am posting at photobucket :

http://s196.photobucket.com/albums/aa26 ... =press.jpg


SO it clearly shows the I was fighting for my rights and I was doing it the HARD WAY without bribes and without fear of retribution from the officers and without influence. I gues Grumpy's allegation also does not stick.


penpusher "B.You are clearly in favor of maintaining the status quo while this site is devoted to changing the current situation as it is against those who wish to own firearms for self defense or sport.You feel that the situation is India is now very rosy for people wishing to own firearms.Rosy, perhaps for you as you have now got the right to import firearms and ammunition.However it is not so for the rest of the population.We wish to see the right that you now enjoy being extended to every person who has a license for a firearm.Therefore you are against what this site and the members here wish to achieve.We don't need you. "

ANS: well from the above it is clear that I have both the knowledge -the resilence to fight for my rights. Asa far as the site is concerned all I have seen is 2 out of country mods out of touch with reality trying to teach Indians what to do on ground while they themselves reside abroad and are out of touch with process here AND we have you penpusher who tries to b a arms act specialist - but a goofy one at that and come through as a immature fence sitter. Do you think that just by preaching to a select group and restriciting and hounding members off the board and acting in a lordy amnner will get u anywhere ? NO!!! Any site is as good as its members and arguments or diffrences of opinion happen - liven up things and increase everyones awareness on the topic- It is only here that the mods get involved at a personal level than as a moderator and start showing
down members - and preach to them as if they are babies ! Buddy I love guns and if to fulfill my dreams I have to compete and go through the grind the hard way - I have done it and will carry on doing it. At least I try to get the system to work a bit here unlike making tall claims as u make - do u think ur writing a couple of lines on the net will change the rules ?? it wont and you and the fence sitters will keep waiting for the change to happen and wear out the pistons and springs of yer springers The only reason I am so happy about the change in the system is that anyone with a serious approach can compete and derive assured benifits - This is so bcoz I had compete in the earlier 49th NSCC bigbore and came in 11th - unfortunatly
there were only 18 competitiors and I was left high and dry - now all that has changed and one simply has to shoot mqs without bothering about the number of competitiors and get the benifits. Sadly u dont seem to understand this and keep ranting and raving for free imports : - forget it this wont happen and you and ur coitre of chamchas will still b saying this years down the line.

Grumpy : "penpusher, I think that the reason that none of the rest of us had reacted against Shutzens increasingly outragious outpourings is that we were horribly fascinated, waiting for the next revelation. He has justified the licencing system on the basis that any problems can be ironed out by those who could afford it by paying bribes. He considers the current method of obtaining `Renowned Shot` status to be quite acceptable. We were anticipating him justifying the use of bribes to obtain `Renowned Status`......and the cronyism that means that international team selection isn`t made on ability but on who you are or who you know. Waiting for him to confirm that championships have been won not by the lowest score but by the highest bribe. All quite reasonable in Shutzens opinion apparently - he supports Indian shooting sports and gun ownership being restricted to a moneyed and powerful elite.
Being so familiar with the NRAI we were waiting for him to relate the joke that has been doing the international `rounds` for the past couple of years:

That India would probably do rather well in international competition if they selected their best team. Unfortunately no one knows who the best team are - especially not the Indian selectors. They know who has the fattest wallets but no idea who shoots the lowest scores.........
We were waiting for Shutzen to justify the perception that `Renowned Shot` status is obtained and championships won with the aid of a .22 calibre ballpoint pen being used to puncture targets ....... and that there is a pricelist.
When there are so many allegations of corruption made there is a good case for suggesting that `there is no smoke without fire`. It doesn`t help when
NRAI supporters like Shutzen condone bribery as legitimate and justifies the currrent status quo which favours money and power. "

ANS: Grumpy I am attaching a scan of a old target of mine - was using it as a placeholder in my file - these are 10 shots prone ISSF peep sight at 50 meters and most of the times (95-97%) this is what I shoot - dont need a bathroom break with your .22 cal pen or .308 cal. either. The pits at the comp are unapproachable and the loos are genrally off to one side so dont know how u manage to walk 50 meters grab ur target and punch em The day I can go steady at 99% is the only time one can thing of international. I have enough national experience though and have enough comps under my belt - as far as your rants are concerened they have been adressed in the above ans too.


pic of my target:

http://s196.photobucket.com/albums/aa26 ... target.jpg


Grumpy "the corrupt status quo and disseminated lying bullshit yet received support from certain members of this forum because those two dared to `take on` the moderators. Those members ought to be ashamed of themselves. This forum is `Indians FOR Guns` NOT `Indians for Corruption and Lies. In the meantime I`m resigning as a moderator. I`m sick of dealing with the arseholes like Satpal_S, Shahid, Danish, and Shutzen and sick of the

sad arseholes who support them. None of those were in favour of Indians for Guns but were all out in favour of guns for Shahid, guns for Danish and guns for Shutzen.....
If Indians really do want to hold firearms as responsible citizens you need to grow up and start acting like responsible adults instead of promoting and supporting dissent. hardly Mack The Knife. I`ve decided that I`d rather be a rank and file member with the option to call the ar*eholes `ar*eholes` without all this stupid yellow card business and - supposedly - being even-handed and polite to the miscreants. Something, frankly, that also isn`t working.
It IS about time that this forum and it`s members grew up and accepted responsibility for our own actions. If that means dispensing with moderators
then so be it - but that means that the members are going to have to stand up and fight the lying sh1tes like Shutzen rather than ignoring or supporting them.
It`s about time that a lot more members showed that they actually are `Indians for Guns` rather than `wimps for the status quo` or `Shahid's ar*e lickers`. "

Dev "Please don't . I am one of the idiots who thought that this guy was a real shooter. We have lost enough. Don't know what Rusty wrote but don't

turn your badge and colt in. "

ANS: All I can say that the mods here just want xlusive preaching rights on the forum and want everyone to yes sir u r the greatest ever them.

Dissent ??? whats that on a internet forum - its a exchange of ideas - mods should know how to "moderate" and not get personal. And Dev - I am a shooter and I did reply to 2 of ur PM's too if u remember - as I did for several other members. Whatever I have shared about the sport is from personal exp. and I have never mislead anyone. However I hope the above clears some of the air and the frustrated ones like penpusher and grumpy will know that I am for real and u can moan and groan all you want. Anyone needing some help can contact me at: [email protected] - that is if the head honcho running the show here still wants me out - I will take it as a failure of this site because I have not shared even a fraction of what I had
to go through to reach where I am today and I am sure many of the members will gain from it - Unless of course the penpusher and chums stringer gang want to exhaust themselves just wishing to change something in cyberspace and keep waiting for the winds of change.

[Grumpy]

LOL ! This is so funny - I`m literally giggling as I type this !
First, you not only can`t spell `hypocrite` but obviously have no idea what it means.
Second, We`re supposed to take as evidence of your shooting ability a target that you say you shot ? We`re supposed to believe this is genuine ? Come on you creep, you`re confessed to and promote bribery, how much did that cost you ?
Third. Why is it that you bull sh*tting lying criminals all resort to producing metres of type in apparent justification of your activities ? No one accepts it as `evidence` because it contains no `evidence`........ and no one reads all the garbage anyway.

[Risala]

What can I say,this place is just too addictive,it happens all the time folks who keep gettin banned keep returning till they set up their own forums where they post a Q and then answer the same themselves

Honestly Shutzen,Dipy,Indian what ever you want to call your self, may be you should try that ,may be you will feel better,personally I think you blew it,and you are to blame your self for this.

Pl reflect on what on what ever has happened,the actions that have been taken,and why they have been taken.Only you have the answers.
I hope you find them,they are very visible for all to see & shouldnt be very difficult to find, the realisation will help you in the future make no mistake about that.

I dont know you personally but good luck with your shooting discipline that you are persuing,may you have all the success.

But seriously Rusty/Mods lets look towards the future,there are Q's that need to be answered.

I am all for letting out steam,throwing left and rights as long as it is not directed at individuals or their cultures or arms.
I also think it should be mandatory for members to introduce themselves,have seen this on IA works well and effectively.
Since this is a India centric forum dealing with an extremely sensitive issue,we need a draconian set of rules if we want to make a difference, we should consider putting restrictions on sections that a non member can view,this has it's pros and cons,that the mods need to debate.

I can bet that the majority that have registered have done so just for the sake of registering,
who probably dont even own an Air gun, and dont plan on getting one.

I think here it is not just about bringing over people on board,I would much rather see a smaller group who actually post,than just the count going up, serious folks who are not only gun lovers but also responsible citizens ie if we want to bring about change as a group,which I would actually like see happen one day & IFG be a part of that story.

Me thinks I have said enough,dont take this too seriously guy's,even though you got your work cut out

Cheers & Best always,

Sanjay

[kanwar76]

Ha ha ha ha....

At first you were not even ready to reveal your identity and when provoked a little told story of all of your family. Good hai... self discipline and all that...

I never had doubts about your claims about being a shooter or something but you were irritating as hell and always looking to target people unnecessarily specially mods. I don’t know what grudges you had with them or it is just you had a itch to prove that you know more than them

“I will take it as a failure of this site because I have not shared even a fraction of what I had to go through to reach where I am today and I am sure many of the members will gain from it – “

Even your last post shows that you think too highly of yourself… who are you…I bet not even Rathore talk about himself like this… and you haven’t shared your experience not because you never had chance its simply because you were too busy to comment on peoples chappals…

Man..If I am not wrong you are a punjabi and there is a saying in Punjabi.. “Neeveyaan nu hee fal lagde ne” but perhaps you won’t understand that…

But still I will ask you again “WHY YOU MADE THAT COMMENT” Hmmmbut now that you are kicked out from here so unless you don;t wanna come back with another ID you can send answer at inderjeet.b.singh attherate gmail.com

-Inder

[Sakobav]

Shutzen or whatever

To be a good shooter or a sportsman first rule is humbleness, discipline and hunger to learn more. Sportsmen are unassuming people who value any ones advise or appreciate any assistance provided from persons belonging to any walk of life. You have exhibited none of above traits rather on contrary made fun of experienced shooters who could have provided invaluable guidance and coaching for few polite posts. Forget “arm chair shooters” on this board you even made snide remarks at member and known shooter in India on NRAI rules?.


For a budding shooter to shun advise on gun smithy and tips was beyond me but its evident now your objective is to get on that qualified hit list, just to import a weapon not a gun into India and then boast or strut your weapon. It has nothing to do with shooting as a sport but for other nefarious reasons.

If that’s wasnt all you indirectly tried to threaten member here by that veiled remark thou shall be embarrassed if we meet in person !! Your pretentious attitude and arrogance reflects on your upbringing that in reality you are a typical “kakaji” - privileged have it all spoilt brat and who has access to get into any list.

You are an example how these new gun rules are going to be circumvented by elites and sport and deserving sportsmen /women are going to suffer.

[kanwar76]

If that’s wasnt all you indirectly tried to threaten member here by that veiled remark thou shall be embarrassed if we meet in person !! Your pretentious attitude and arrogance reflects on your upbringing that in reality you are a typical “kakaji” - privileged have it all spoilt brat and who has access to get into any list.

And i thought I am the only one who thought thats a threat.... b

-Inder

[dev]

Okay,

To be fair we declare thee a shooter. And yes you were nice enough to give me a lot of gyan on 300m. You definitely have the makings of everything good and honourable, but along with great talent comes greater humility.

Being in Delhi I have met Yashpal Rana, Joey and a few more renowned shots. In fact Yashpal Rana actually gave me air pistol tips at Siri Fort when I showed him my lowly score, he humbly stated that he began at 60%.

So go ahead be all that you can be but resist the temptation to blast all other voices away when in a public forum. As far as scrapping goes we fight all the time but have all bonded together. Heck I've scrapped with penpusher, Mack The Knife...still working on getting Grump's goat but they are large hearted men.

They cast doubts on my ancestry seven generations up and down and I swear back that they were cloned from aphids and then we are square. Hey, its the net no body gets bruised except for your ego. So take it on the chin and shoot back fast from your keyboard.

Avoid being guileful and using deceit, after all who cares how many rifles you can import as a renowned shot. Most of us have access to a nice firearm anyway, if not a firearm an air rifle at least.

Apologies for being preachy but this whole mess has got to me. I wish it hadn't been this way.

Regards,

Dev