Travel Permit - Not being granted

[Chandan22]

Hello,

Just wanted to know if anyone has any idea where I can find references to travel permits outside the area of validity, when going on a visit, in the Arms Act or Arms Rules.

I am going out of town for 5 days, and want to carry my pistol with me. When I applied for a TL today, the Delhi Police Licencing Branch told me that it is issued only for buying a new weapon or selling a weapon outside area of validity and no other reason. Going for a visit is not a reason.

I'm not sure that is the case. Apparently there is an order from the commissioner or someone which outlines this, but as always, they weren't able to find it. So they refused to even accept the application. I want to reapply but with the correct citation.

The only places I find in the Arms Act are sections 37 & 38, but they don't seem to say that I can't carry my weapon outside my area of validity even with a TL.

Anyone has any experience?

Regards,
~C

[Anand]

There are two types of permits issued to take arms and ammunition beyond the normal area of validity. The first is generally given to Dealers and licensees that have a limited area validity of a district or state, when they want to acquire or sell their arms out side their normal area validity. For instance you want to buy an IOF revolver from Kanpur while your normal are of validity is Delhi. I think this is called a transportation license, but I could be wrong please check.
The second is for a licensee with a limited area validity who wants to travel, temporarily, with his firearm(s) out side his normal area validity, For example, you are traveling with family to Mahabaleshwar for a holiday and want to take your revolver for protection while your normal area validity is Delhi. And this I think is called a travelers permit, I could be wrong please check.
The LA office may be confusing one with the other.
Hope this helps,
Anand

[Chandan22]

Hello,

They are not confusing anything. They are probably finding a way to refuse. The point is , I need to know where this is explicitly mentioned in either the ARMS ACT or the ARMS RULES and what scene they have to refuse it.

~C

[aadhaulya]

Hello,
They are not confusing anything. They are probably finding a way to refuse. The point is , I need to know where this is explicitly mentioned in either the ARMS ACT or the ARMS RULES and what scene they have to refuse it.
~C

This is strange. Normally Delhi LA is quite well organised. In Gurgaon they did not create any problem. I gave them the reason that I had to carry my revolver because I was travelling to Jaipur by road. They gave it to me in 2 days. Copy attached. They are supposed to charge Rs 20 but they did not charge that also. Probably they forgot to charge me.



Atul

[Chandan22]

Thanks Atul..

However, they still refused. Apparently the commissioners orders.
Didn't feel up to challenging it this time around, as I don't have the time before I go out of town.

But will definitely pick it up soon...

~C

[ankur_ank007]

Hello,

Just wanted to know if anyone has any idea where I can find references to travel permits outside the area of validity, when going on a visit, in the Arms Act or Arms Rules.

I am going out of town for 5 days, and want to carry my pistol with me. When I applied for a TL today, the Delhi Police Licencing Branch told me that it is issued only for buying a new weapon or selling a weapon outside area of validity and no other reason. Going for a visit is not a reason.

I'm not sure that is the case. Apparently there is an order from the commissioner or someone which outlines this, but as always, they weren't able to find it. So they refused to even accept the application. I want to reapply but with the correct citation.

The only places I find in the Arms Act are sections 37 & 38, but they don't seem to say that I can't carry my weapon outside my area of validity even with a TL.

Anyone has any experience?

Regards,
~C

Hi Chandan,

You can type the application, fold it and speedpost the letter after stapling it (just like a book post). Don't use the envelope to keep the letter, simply fold it 3 times, staple it in the middle, write the address on the blank side and speed post it to the licensing authority. Also mention that the clerk refused to accept the application, attach a xerox copy with return envelope with registered post stamp and mention this also clearly in the letter and ask them to send you back a receiving copy duly signed by the receiver and stamped.

It is your legal right to carry your weapon anywhere within Indian territory and without a valid reason, in a written form, the LA cannot refuse to grant you the travel permit.

Still, if they do so, teach them a lesson, file a writ and clearly charge the LA with dereliction of duty and harassment. Even if you don't want to appeal now, send the letter requesting the grant of visitor's permit and if they deny, once you return, grill them.

Regards,
Ankur

[aadhaulya]

Ankur,

That is a perfect recipe of creating problems for yourself. After that you can be sure that each demand of yours, however reasonable would be met by some opposition and they would expect you to fight it out.

Atul

[ankur_ank007]

Ankur,

That is a perfect recipe of creating problems for yourself. After that you can be sure that each demand of yours, however reasonable would be met by some opposition and they would expect you to fight it out.

Atul

I completely agree with you, but some day we will have to take a stand. I was wondering why police in India is too rude... I inferred, when India became independent we retained the same police personnel who were serving British against Indian Citizens at large. The people and their methods remained the same, the department remained the same, the system remained the same. The new recruits kept coming and kept learning from their seniors.... from the British Colonial times the learnings too remained the same.......... We will have to uproot that colonial soul of our Policing System and Bureaucracy.... No police reform movements, civil movements can work until and unless the bloody colonial soul of the system is cleaned.

Regards
Ankur

[aadhaulya]

Ankur,

Easier said than done. Here, most of us do not want to do anything about it. We would rather wait for someone else do it for us. That my friend is the hard fact of life.

Atul

[ankur_ank007]

Ankur,

Easier said than done. Here, most of us do not want to do anything about it. We would rather wait for someone else do it for us. That my friend is the hard fact of life.

Atul

Atul ji,

That is the main problem with us, the Indians.... After Afghans, Iranian Plunderers, Mughals and British Colonials we are exploited by our own people and we are habitual ignorants now....

No offence meant...

Regards

[aadhaulya]

Atul ji,

That is the main problem with us, the Indians.... After Afghans, Iranian Plunderers, Mughals and British Colonials we are exploited by our own people and we are habitual ignorants now....

No offence meant...

Regards

I agree with you up to a certain point only. I have expressed my thoughts on a similar matter, today morning on another post.I am quoting the same.

Re: PURPOSE OF UIN
Postby aadhaulya » Sat Oct 17, 2015 9:42 am

GBM,

The question is what can be done?? I need a passport and if they insist I will give the biometrics. The first time I had to do it was when I applied for a VISA for UK, so you want to go to UK you do as you are told or wait for years or your life time to get the world to change.
What can be done is that you probably give the biometrics and get a passport then fight it out alone as there wont be many people to fight it out with you most of them would be fence sitters.
Therefore, the question is who starts. I am not saying it can't be done, after all the independence movement must also have started the same way. I am not sure but I have a feeling that the majority of people who started the movement had nothing to lose.

Atul

I am sure Ankur, that you will not do anything that may affect the issue of your license (I am not saying that is wrong. It is the correct approach. Any intelligent person will not forget his ultimate aim).
I think you are never going to say that, forget my license let me fight out for others from now on.
I don't know if I am clear because I am myself not very clear.

Atul

[ankur_ank007]

Atul ji,

That is the main problem with us, the Indians.... After Afghans, Iranian Plunderers, Mughals and British Colonials we are exploited by our own people and we are habitual ignorants now....

No offence meant...

Regards

I agree with you up to a certain point only. I have expressed my thoughts on a similar matter, today morning on another post.I am quoting the same.

Re: PURPOSE OF UIN
Postby aadhaulya » Sat Oct 17, 2015 9:42 am

GBM,

The question is what can be done?? I need a passport and if they insist I will give the biometrics. The first time I had to do it was when I applied for a VISA for UK, so you want to go to UK you do as you are told or wait for years or your life time to get the world to change.
What can be done is that you probably give the biometrics and get a passport then fight it out alone as there wont be many people to fight it out with you most of them would be fence sitters.
Therefore, the question is who starts. I am not saying it can't be done, after all the independence movement must also have started the same way. I am not sure but I have a feeling that the majority of people who started the movement had nothing to lose.

Atul

I am sure Ankur, that you will not do anything that may affect the issue of your license (I am not saying that is wrong. It is the correct approach. Any intelligent person will not forget his ultimate aim).
I think you are never going to say that, forget my license let me fight out for others from now on.
I don't know if I am clear because I am myself not very clear.

Atul

Haha, I am sure I won't do something like that before 28th..... And on 28th if things won't go on right path I shall indeed say "Forget my license, lets start a CRUSADE...."

Ankur

[aadhaulya]

Haha, I am sure I won't do something like that before 28th..... And on 28th if things won't go on right path I shall indeed say "Forget my license, lets start a CRUSADE...."

Ankur

Ankur,

Don't even think of doing that. Or have these guys taken out the spark in you?? There are still options available....

Atul

[Chandan22]

Gentlemen,

Unfortunately our situation is so tenuous, that we must pick and choose our battles with our authorities. I have a dozen grouses, but can't start off on them right away. Fighting on one cause right now will harm my other ongoing process where I am not facing resistance yet. My approach is to keep pushing for my rights, and when I have come to the point where either I absolutely cannot do without it, or have already finished up whatever was gainable, and now have to fight for anything else, I'll take the fight as high as required.

I'm not one to sit things out. But I am not wrong in saying that I have not really encountered any issues till now. This was probably the first instance where I got rebuffed for something I know I should have been able to get.

Unfortunately, I haven't been able to get clarity on the various powers of various authorities w.r.t. arms. While the Arms Act and ancilliary rules are sacrosanct, there are probably powers provided to varying authorities to issue varying orders. Now which of these authorities has issued which order, and what is its validity is the morass I need to navigate. So while the commissioner may have given this order, unless I figure out the legality of that order, there is no real point in starting a fight. But once started, I will see it through.

~C

[ankur_ank007]

Gentlemen,

Unfortunately our situation is so tenuous, that we must pick and choose our battles with our authorities. I have a dozen grouses, but can't start off on them right away. Fighting on one cause right now will harm my other ongoing process where I am not facing resistance yet. My approach is to keep pushing for my rights, and when I have come to the point where either I absolutely cannot do without it, or have already finished up whatever was gainable, and now have to fight for anything else, I'll take the fight as high as required.

I'm not one to sit things out. But I am not wrong in saying that I have not really encountered any issues till now. This was probably the first instance where I got rebuffed for something I know I should have been able to get.

Unfortunately, I haven't been able to get clarity on the various powers of various authorities w.r.t. arms. While the Arms Act and ancilliary rules are sacrosanct, there are probably powers provided to varying authorities to issue varying orders. Now which of these authorities has issued which order, and what is its validity is the morass I need to navigate. So while the commissioner may have given this order, unless I figure out the legality of that order, there is no real point in starting a fight. But once started, I will see it through.

~C

Chandan22,

Agreed