buying used shotgun from other state

[hpsm]

I am a resident of Punjab and a legal arms licence holder throughout Punjab.
To my license presently I have a dbbl Indian made gun with a barrel length of 22" of not very good quality.
I have an offer of an imported fine quality ddbl gun with 30" barrel from an individual of UP and I wish to buy it from him.
Please help me in the process of buying this gun by letting me know the legal formalities that I would have to follow.

[aadhaulya]

Lately, a lot of people join this forum to ask one question and hope to get an answer. They have no further interest in interacting with others.
You may like to introduce yourself in the appropriate section and give us a chance to know you, your interests a little. Then go through the information available here, there is lots of it.
After that if you can't find the solution there are a lot of members who can give inputs.

Atul

[hpsm]

Dear Mr Atul

I have gone through all pages of legal Eagle, and came across only on questions related to buying of guns from other states by all India license holders. Myself being a arms license holder of Punjab only.
Since I am new to this forum and a guns enthusiast, I am sure of having some very healthy interactions in times to come.

Harsh

[Vineet]

Ask the seller to deposit the gun in a gun house stock of his area. You will have to get NOC from your district DM to buy the gun from that particular dealer. To apply for NOC you will need consent letter from the dealer mentioning that he is willing to sell the gun to you and an attested photocopy of his trade license.

After getting the NOC you will have to get TL from the UP DM. Ask the seller to help you in getting the TL. After having valid PP, NOC and TL you can buy the gun from UP. You will have to pay the dealer his nominal fee.

BTW you can get good shotgun at reasonable price in Punjab too.

[hpsm]

Ask the seller to deposit the gun in a gun house stock of his area. You will have to get NOC from your district DM to buy the gun from that particular dealer. To apply for NOC you will need consent letter from the dealer mentioning that he is willing to sell the gun to you and an attested photocopy of his trade license.

After getting the NOC you will have to get TL from the UP DM. Ask the seller to help you in getting the TL. After having valid PP, NOC and TL you can buy the gun from UP. You will have to pay the dealer his nominal fee.

BTW you can get good shotgun at reasonable price in Punjab too.

Thank you for your reply.
Can anything be done like the individual sells directly to the arms dealer of Punjab, I am in good terms with one of the dealers, and I am sure he can travel to the other state for doing this, if its legally feasible? That would I suppose reduce the legal hiccups.
And then I can get it endorsed on my license.
I also wish to know if I can possess two guns, both dbbl 12g on one license? Will I need to sell the earlier one I possess?
And can I get one in Punjab too??
This one I am looking to buy is a Belgian made in 1945 with all proofmarks verified, approx market price according to you?

[Chandan22]

Hello,

My understanding is that as per the Arms Act, any licenced individual can sell his/her weapon to any other similiarly licenced individual directly, with the requirement of notifying the relevant LA's and with a 45 day notice period. The requirements would be that the individual selling has the weapon endorsed on his licence, and the person buying has the particular weapon type allowed on his licence.

Please see below extract from the Arms Act. It outlines what a Seller must do. There is no matching guideline for the Buyer, which would probably imply that a person with a licence can buy from an individual just as he can from a dealer. If the relevant paperwork is provided, including probably a bill of sale and a copy of the letter submitted to the LA by the seller etc, I don't think there should be any problem in endorsing the weapon on the licence.

If any one has any interpretations of this, please offer.

~C


FOR THE SELLER
-------
4*[(2) Notwithstanding anything contained in sub-section (1) a
person may, without holding a licence in this behalf, sell or transfer
any arms or ammunition which he lawfully possesses for his own private
use to another person who is entitled by virtue of this Act or any
other law for the time being in force to have, or is not prohibited by
this Act or such other law from having in his possession such arms or
ammunition:

Provided that no firearm or ammunition in respect of which a
licence is required under section 3 and no arms in respect of which a
licence is required under section 4 shall be so sold or transferred by
any person unless--

(a) he has informed in writing the district magistrate
having jurisdiction or the officer in charge of the nearest
police station of his intention to sell or transfer such
firearms, ammunition or other arms and the name and address of
the person to whom he intends to sell or transfer such firearms,
ammunition or the other arms, and

(b) a period of not less than forty-five days has expired
after the giving of such information.]

[Vineet]

Can anything be done like the individual sells directly to the arms dealer of Punjab

Individual can sell directly to arms dealer in Punjab if the sellers license is valid in Punjab. If no, then the seller will have to get NOC from DM to sell in Punjab.

I also wish to know if I can possess two guns, both dbbl 12g on one license?

For this you will have to enquire with your licensing branch. Some district licensing branches allow two guns on one license and some doesn't.

This one I am looking to buy is a Belgian made in 1945 with all proofmarks verified, approx market price according to you?

Some more details like co. name, ejector or non ejector, barrel length, choke type, chamber 65mm or 70 mm, condition of the gun and few pics will help to determine the cost of the gun.

Hello,
My understanding is that as per the Arms Act, any licenced individual can sell his/her weapon to any other similiarly licenced individual directly, with the requirement of notifying the relevant LA's and with a 45 day notice period. The requirements would be that the individual selling has the weapon endorsed on his licence, and the person buying has the particular weapon type allowed on his licence.

Chandan22, The buyer wants to buy gun from UP and his license is valid for Punjab only. Also we do not know whether seller's license is valid in Punjab or not. Assuming that the seller's license is not valid in Punjab, the arms act you have quoted does not apply in this case. Selling and purchasing can not take place without taking permission from ADM or DM.

[aadhaulya]

I also wish to know if I can possess two guns, both dbbl 12g on one license?

For this you will have to enquire with your licensing branch. Some district licensing branches allow two guns on one license and some doesn't.

Vineet,

Your explanation is quite clear. But I am confused on the above issue, please help me understand as follows.

1. Suppose I am in a district that allows two or more guns on the same license.
2. I have a license for three weapons, a DBBL, Rifle, Pistol. Will I be allowed to own 2 or more DBBL on the same license taking the count of my total weapons to 4 or more.

Atul

[Vineet]

If your license is for self defence, then you can not own more than three weapons.

More than three weapons are only allowed in sports category.

[Chandan22]

Hello,

Vineet, the arms act is applicable all across the country. And the part I quoted does not specify any special procedure for area bound validity sales.
Yes, as I mentioned, a seller does have to inform the local authority, which could be the DM or whoever, but I don't see why that should be a difficult thing.

I don't see any provision for an NOC in the act. One needs to intimate the authority, which may raise a point or not. The act does not specify any procedure.. but I doubt any authority can undertake any action that contravenes the legality.

Still.. lots of difference between the letter of the law and the reality on the ground..

~C

[Vineet]

Chandan22, I was going through the arms act part that you have quoted. In it I read "Proviso omitted by Ibid". You can read it here http://artassam.nic.in/Home%20Departmen ... 201959.pdf

[hpsm]

This one I am looking to buy is a Belgian made in 1945 with all proofmarks verified, approx market price according to you?

Some more details like co. name, ejector or non ejector, barrel length, choke type, chamber 65mm or 70 mm, condition of the gun and few pics will help to determine the cost of the gun.

Dear Mr Vineet I am talking about this one http://indiansforguns.com/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=23759 , which was started as a different thread.

[aadhaulya]

hpsm,

This is quite confusing. You have started 2 topics regarding the same issue.

Atul

[mundaire]

Chandan22, I was going through the arms act part that you have quoted. In it I read "Proviso omitted by Ibid". You can read it here

The latest copy of Arms Act and Arms rules can be downloaded from https://www.indiansforguns.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=1474

Chandan22 has quoted Section 5 sub-section 2, it still reads as quoted by him. Re-quoting from the Arms Act below:

Section 5.
(2) Notwithstanding anything contained in sub-section (1), a person may, without
holding a licence in this behalf, sell or transfer any arms or ammunition which he
lawfully possesses for his own private use to another person who is entitled by virtue
of this Act, or any other law for the time being in force to have, or is not prohibited
by this Act or such other law from having, in his possession, such arms or
ammunition;

Provided that no firearm or ammunition in respect of which a license is
required under section 3 or any arms in respect of which a licence is required under
section 4 shall be sold or transferred by any person unless----
(a) he has informed in writing the district magistrate having jurisdiction or the
officer in charge of the nearest police station of his intention to sell or transfer
such firearms and the name and address of the person to whom he intends to
sell or transfer such firearms, ammunition or other arms, and
(b) a period of not less than forty-five days has expired after the giving of such
information.

[aadhaulya]

Section 5.
(2) Notwithstanding anything contained in sub-section (1), a person may, without
holding a licence in this behalf, sell or transfer any arms or ammunition which he
lawfully possesses for his own private use to another person who is entitled by virtue
of this Act, or any other law for the time being in force to have, or is not prohibited
by this Act or such other law from having, in his possession, such arms or
ammunition;

Isn't this part contradictory. By mentioning arms and ammunition that would mean that he may be allowed to possess a fire arm without a license in certain cases.

Atul