Arms License and Police Verification (Not Recommended)

[StampMaster]

Hello All,

Bureaucracy trouble as usual..

AL has been applied in district. Requirement was for a handgun for personal protection as my friend is in construction (carry bulk cash) and his agricultural properties are located in remote area. There has been many instance of robberies and break in his farm vicinity, including in the farm house of Ex-MLA.

Yesterday my friend got a call from the local police station to meet up for verification for Arms License application made some 2 months ago. Constable has asked to meet the CI (Circle Inspector and SHO of the area) for further interview.

CI has asked for the reason for application and area of business dealings. And advised the respective constable to reply NOT RECOMMENDED. And send back to LA.

Well to my knowledge, respective police authority does not have the authority to recommend or deny. But his duty is limited to verify the details provided are true - residence, character of the application and any case pending, closed etc. And Not Recommended kinda feedback this poor thing may have to go through hard time convincing LA for his need.

I have shared some links from IFG on FAQ to expect from the police dept and some court decisions.. Any more suggestion in the above case and next course of action will be appreciated..

Well I forgot to mention, there was a good sign that these guys wanted their palms greased.

Cheers
Happy Ganesh Chaturthi

[aadhaulya]

You are right 'StampMaster' the local police station has to verify the address and confirm if there is no criminal case pending (although pending criminal cases should not be considered, till convicted).
They certainly do not have the right to recommend or not recommend an AL.
Now most probably your friend has a long legal battle coming up.

Atul

[StampMaster]

Well... the next plan of action is to wait for a written communication in this regards (not recommending AL). Meanwhile I've asked him to file an RTI in requesting who can apply for AL and on what basis as per the Arms Act.

As soon as a communication is received we have 30 days (not sure the number of days) to appeal to the appellate authority to discuss the reason for not granting. So meanwhile I would collect the necessary court hearing and other cases available.

Not sure, but the appellate authority would be senior official from the police and not LA (need some clarification).

After speaking my friend this morning, he has mentioned that his place residence is in the same district where he has applied for license. However, he also rented out a house in the neighbouring city for business where he usually ends up staying for 2-4 days a week for business. Not I am confused what to suggest him, to which LA he should be applying to.

[ckkalyan]

CI has asked for the reason for application and area of business dealings. And advised the respective constable to reply NOT RECOMMENDED. And send back to LA.

Suggestion (I am no expert): File an RTI on that Police Station and top cop, quoting application number, etc., asking for details of response to the address verification and action taken, by whom, when...RTI doesn't cost much - so simply throw in all your queries (just to shake up the already muddied waters). Maybe the CI will wake up and take a fresh look at his 'actual' duties?

[StampMaster]

Kalyan Saab,

Application is made in district, LA is the DM.

Well in regards to RTI, what questions should I be asking in this regards? As there is no updated received in written. Also please refer MHA site- http://www.mha.nic.in/sites/upload_file ... 190813.PDF question 7.

Will the below questionnaire be sufficient?

1. As per the Arms Act 1959 who are the people (applicants) not eligible for arms license.
2. If the applicant is an ordinary citizen and has no threat, will he be able to get arms license?
3. If a person is of good behaviour. No criminal record or court cases against him/her. Never been convicted. Will he be eligible to get arms license?
4. Can the local police, has the authority to RECOMMEND or NOT RECOMMEND an applicant arms license?
5. If the local police do not recommend license. Will that affect an individuals application to procure Arms License as per the Arms Act 1959?

Suggestions appreciated.

Cheers

[aadhaulya]

My personal opinion.
2. 'If you has no threat' why do you want a license? License is issued only for self protection or sports purpose. Also remember that as per the arms act, threat may be real or perceived.
3. Same as above.
4. The local police has the power to recommend or not recommend a license taking into account the circumstances, like they may suspect that it would disturb the peace of the neighborhood or any other reason that they fancy. But they are supposed to give a specific reason for not recommending it.
5. If the police does not recommend the license it will not be issued, but you are free to appeal against the order by disputing the reason given by them for not recommending the license, as there is no case or complaint registered against you.

That is my understanding but GBM could give you a better idea on this issue.

Atul

[StampMaster]

Atul Ji

Pt 3- it is perceived threat as this guy carries bulk cash and often have to visit and stay back in remote farm for its works.
Pt 4- The applicants farmland vicinity is kind of notorious place for robberies.
Pt 5- I recommend to Appeal to higher authority if the Local Police does not recommend.

Thanks for early reply Atul Ji. Others suggestions are appreciated..

[aadhaulya]

StampMaster,

I would like to add some more thought.
Pt. 3. How much is bulk cash. As per the unofficial guide lines with LA's bulk cash that requires a license is a daily transaction of Rs. 5 lacs that you can show in your books. But if that is not the case, he could be scared carrying even a lower amount of cash besides, staying at remote locations adds to the insecurity. He could also have noticed or imagined a car that seems to follow him some times and many other examples. All these are perceived threats that may or may not exist.
Pt. 4. This point is for the police to decide and they have decided that it is not so. Therefore, as the LA is not going to investigate each case on its own they have go as per the recommendation of the police.

Hence, the only way out is an appeal and after that going to the court.

Atul

[ckkalyan]

The debate is gaining momentum StampMaster & aadhaulya, thoughts and ideas are emerging...

My only point was that anyone is entitled to submit an RTI to demand information - in this case I thought it would be an idea to ask - what happened to this specific case / application, why is it not being attended to etc., etc. Hope this helps.

[aadhaulya]

The debate is gaining momentum StampMaster & aadhaulya, thoughts and ideas are emerging...

My only point was that anyone is entitled to submit an RTI to demand information - in this case I thought it would be an idea to ask - what happened to this specific case / application, why is it not being attended to etc., etc. Hope this helps.

Off course any one is entitled to file a RTI. But the question is that what stampMaste wants to ask in the RTI. As he already has all the answers.. Most of the answers would be 'refer to arms act and rules'.

As per the present status 'the file is under process', but we already know the progress. The applicationhas been rejected by the police and if they do not recommend it, the license will not be granted.

The only option that remains is that get the reason for rejection and then appeal against the decision, before going to court.

Atul

[goodboy_mentor]

"Recommendations" have no legal value. From the information provided, it looks like if the application is rejected, he will have to approach the appellate authority. It is usually the State Home Secretary. If still rejected the applicant has the option of approaching High Court or Supreme Court.

All those "reasons" like threat, no threat, robberies in neighborhood, carrying cash, doing business etc. has no legal place in Arms Act 1959. It also clearly says the license will not be rejected for the sole reason that applicant does not possess sufficient property.

RTI Act 2005 is about reading or getting copy of existing information/ records etc. present in the concerned government office. It is not about getting personal opinions.

[StampMaster]

Thanks GBM for your suggestions.

As we know how our bureaucrats work, I think filing RTI and getting response from it so when needed in 1-2 months time when we meet the appellate authority or the DM in future we have a self written (PIO of their own office) document and the Arms Act 1959 points readily available. This RTI will at the least ring their ears when we approach them.

We were not sure who the appellate authority is. I was thinking it would be the Head of Police (SP/ DCP) or the LA.

As per the present status 'the file is under process', but we already know the progress. The application has been rejected by the police and if they do not recommend it, the license will not be granted.

The only option that remains is that get the reason for rejection and then appeal against the decision, before going to court.

If the police DO NOT RECOMMEND license then they are equally liable to provide a reason for denying it. So I think local police will provide any written update on the status unless requested or RTI filed.

@ Atul ji, we already know the answers for the most of the questions in RTI application. We're still questioning them because either the person at the other end does not know or they act that they are unaware. Once we get the RTI reply we can approach the LA or the appellate authority with it and get the needful done.

Thanks you all...

[aadhaulya]

Yes StampMaster, you are right. Coming from them would force them to accept the Arms Act instead of their whims and fancies.

Atul

[ankur_ank007]

CI has asked for the reason for application and area of business dealings. And advised the respective constable to reply NOT RECOMMENDED. And send back to LA.

Well to my knowledge, respective police authority does not have the authority to recommend or deny. But his duty is limited to verify the details provided are true - residence, character of the application and any case pending, closed etc. And Not Recommended kinda feedback this poor thing may have to go through hard time convincing LA for his need.

Cheers
Happy Ganesh Chaturthi

Hi,

So sorry to hear your story.

Yes, you are right, police officials have only the duty and right to confirm your antecedents. The can not recommend or deny for the Arms License.

If they do so, write directly to LA about this, send the letter via speed post or sent an email. If your antecedents are not bad you are not bound to give reasons for your requirement. You need not to prove any threat.

You can note some judgements from the compilation I made and posted a few weeks back. https://www.indiansforguns.com/viewtopi ... =4&t=23608

This may help you. Good luck with your application. All the best.

Regards

[drdogautam]

Exactly same SSP done with my Arm licence application. He even didn't send it to my area police station and never meet with me & straight returned application to DM office with "Not recommended" mark.
Now I am planning to follow legal path, please guide me how would you takle this case?