Cobra and TT make a nice pair.ckkalyan wrote:These are still sold in the box, brand, spanking new, in Canada for about $290/- (Roughly less than - INR 14,500/-) made in 2013 - good pistols!
http://www.marstar.ca/dynamic/product.j ... ctid=85986
Trade a Colt Cobra for a TT??
.30 pistol
- Vikram
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Re: .30 pistol
It ain’t over ’til it’s over! "Rocky,Rocky,Rocky....."
- timmy
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Re: .30 pistol
As many know here, I have a 213, which is the Chinese TT in 9mm.
These pistols are a good design and very functional, within limitations. There's no way I would dispose of a Colt Cobra in order to get one, however. Vikram's solution of getting both would be the way to go in this situation.
Some brief observations:
All of the TTs I've seen, whether in 7.62x25 (sometimes called .30) or 9mm are good, serviceable, stout pistols. The design is quite strong. They are made from machined forgings.
The finish of these pistols varies, but does not affect their serviceability in any way. All are perfectly good to shoot. The most well-finished ones that I've seen are the pre WW2 Soviet ones and the Polish ones. These can be very nice. The Chinese ones, like the one I have, can be "basic" (which is one step above rough in my book).
The hammer and sear assembly is quite novel, as it sits in the top of the frame and can be easily removed without any tools when the pistol is disassembled. This assembly has built-in feed lips, so that the magazine lips can be damaged without affecting feeding.
The downside to the integrated firing mechanism is that the mainspring is largely contained in the hammer. It is a short stiff coil spring and the pistol is not easily cocked by thumbing the hammer.
The pistol is based on the 1911 short recoil system. It is about the size of a Colt Pocket Pistol.
The originals did not have a safety at all -- remember, these were made for military use, not for modern "self defense." Import laws of the USA have forced the TTs imported here to have safeties. One is a lever next to the trigger, and another version is back where a 1911 safety is. The first kind blocks the trigger and the second blocks the sear from moving. Neither are like a 1911 safety that positively blocks the hammer.
Also, the TT does not have an inertia firing pin, like the 1911, so the hammer cannot be lowered when there is a chamber in the round. There is a half-cock, but this is useless as a safety, since dropping the pistol on half-cock will break the notch or sear and fire the pistol if it lands on the hammer. This especially applies to people who carry in their waist band or pocket, where a gun is very likely to slip and fall.
Three points to sum up:
1. The TT is quite strong and safe by design, however it looks from the outside
2. The Colt Cobra is infinitely more desirable than a TT
3. The TT is not a good self defense weapon, because it cannot be safely carried with a round in the chamber. As a previous poster noted, if a self defense pistol in 7.62x25 (.30) is wanted, get a Czech CZ-52. They are very well made and very safe. The Czechs took care to mill out the frame and slide so that all unnecessary weight is removed. Even though the CZ-52 is a bit larger than the TT, it is lighter. (BTW, I also have a CZ-52.)
I cannot say exactly what the ammunition situation is in India. I understand that .22 Long Rifle, .32 S&W Long, and .32 ACP are available. That makes weapons chambered for these rounds very practical. I understand that cartridges like .380 and .357 are not easy to come by. If you can get a supply of 7.62x25 ammunition, this may be a good bet for a more powerful loading in a handgun.
These pistols are a good design and very functional, within limitations. There's no way I would dispose of a Colt Cobra in order to get one, however. Vikram's solution of getting both would be the way to go in this situation.
Some brief observations:
All of the TTs I've seen, whether in 7.62x25 (sometimes called .30) or 9mm are good, serviceable, stout pistols. The design is quite strong. They are made from machined forgings.
The finish of these pistols varies, but does not affect their serviceability in any way. All are perfectly good to shoot. The most well-finished ones that I've seen are the pre WW2 Soviet ones and the Polish ones. These can be very nice. The Chinese ones, like the one I have, can be "basic" (which is one step above rough in my book).
The hammer and sear assembly is quite novel, as it sits in the top of the frame and can be easily removed without any tools when the pistol is disassembled. This assembly has built-in feed lips, so that the magazine lips can be damaged without affecting feeding.
The downside to the integrated firing mechanism is that the mainspring is largely contained in the hammer. It is a short stiff coil spring and the pistol is not easily cocked by thumbing the hammer.
The pistol is based on the 1911 short recoil system. It is about the size of a Colt Pocket Pistol.
The originals did not have a safety at all -- remember, these were made for military use, not for modern "self defense." Import laws of the USA have forced the TTs imported here to have safeties. One is a lever next to the trigger, and another version is back where a 1911 safety is. The first kind blocks the trigger and the second blocks the sear from moving. Neither are like a 1911 safety that positively blocks the hammer.
Also, the TT does not have an inertia firing pin, like the 1911, so the hammer cannot be lowered when there is a chamber in the round. There is a half-cock, but this is useless as a safety, since dropping the pistol on half-cock will break the notch or sear and fire the pistol if it lands on the hammer. This especially applies to people who carry in their waist band or pocket, where a gun is very likely to slip and fall.
Three points to sum up:
1. The TT is quite strong and safe by design, however it looks from the outside
2. The Colt Cobra is infinitely more desirable than a TT
3. The TT is not a good self defense weapon, because it cannot be safely carried with a round in the chamber. As a previous poster noted, if a self defense pistol in 7.62x25 (.30) is wanted, get a Czech CZ-52. They are very well made and very safe. The Czechs took care to mill out the frame and slide so that all unnecessary weight is removed. Even though the CZ-52 is a bit larger than the TT, it is lighter. (BTW, I also have a CZ-52.)
I cannot say exactly what the ammunition situation is in India. I understand that .22 Long Rifle, .32 S&W Long, and .32 ACP are available. That makes weapons chambered for these rounds very practical. I understand that cartridges like .380 and .357 are not easy to come by. If you can get a supply of 7.62x25 ammunition, this may be a good bet for a more powerful loading in a handgun.
“Fanaticism consists of redoubling your efforts when you have forgotten your aim.”
saying in the British Royal Navy
saying in the British Royal Navy
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Re: .30 pistol
Can anyone tell me where find 7.62×25(.30)cal pistol round in uttar pradesh bcoz my father is having this pistol and he is almost out of ammo
- ckkalyan
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Re: .30 pistol
In a lighter vein, vasilizaitsev once your dad gets the additional ammo you would be better off to keep changing your hideouts more frequently and unexpectedly than before!
When guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns!
- ckkalyan
- Veteran
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Re: .30 pistol
http://www.marstar.ca/dynamic/product.j ... ctid=85986
Zastava M57 TT Pistols in 7.62x25 [ZAS-M57] $295.00
Comes with:
- two magazines
- Cleaning Brush
- Manual
Zastava M57 TT Pistols in 7.62x25 [ZAS-M57] $295.00
Comes with:
- two magazines
- Cleaning Brush
- Manual
When guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns!
- Vineet
- Veteran
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- Joined: Fri Jul 11, 2008 11:09 am
- Location: Punjab
Re: .30 pistol
Vasilizaitsev, .30 pistol ammo is available with some gun dealers in Punjab and is priced around Rs. 350-400 a round.
Vineet Armoury
Arms, Ammunition & Accessories.
Arms, Ammunition & Accessories.
- timmy
- Old Timer
- Posts: 3030
- Joined: Mon Dec 08, 2008 7:03 am
- Location: home on the range
Re: .30 pistol
Another point about both the Tokarev-designed TT and the CZ 52 that should be noted is evident in the TT picture CK posted: Note how close to a 90* right angle the grip is to the barrel of the TT. The CZ 52 is similar. When John M Browwning designed the 1911 as a modification of the original 1905, he studied the ergonomics of the human hand so that the natural angle of the wrist is matched by the angle of the grip. This makes the 1911 a natural "pointer": when you snap it to shooting position, the sights are naturally aligned with the target. You don't have to think about cocking your hand to get a sight picture.
Both the TT and the CZ 52 do not have this design detail. As a result, they both naturally shoot low and you have to concentrate -- make an effort -- to cock your wrist and align the sights properly. This. Luke make a difference in a split-second situation. Why Tokarev and the Czech designers did not copy this imports at feature, I don't know.
The ergonomics of Double Action revolvers like the Colts and Smith & Wessons is completely different and natural, as well. However, the frames of Smith & Wessons are a bit friendlier to smaller hands and the Colts for larger hands, when comparing small frame J frame S & W (like a Chief's Special) to Colt D frame (like a Detective Special and Cobra), a 357 or 38 K frame S & W to an I frame Colt (like the Python), or an N frame (like 44 Magnum) S & W to a large Colt New Service.
Both the TT and the CZ 52 do not have this design detail. As a result, they both naturally shoot low and you have to concentrate -- make an effort -- to cock your wrist and align the sights properly. This. Luke make a difference in a split-second situation. Why Tokarev and the Czech designers did not copy this imports at feature, I don't know.
The ergonomics of Double Action revolvers like the Colts and Smith & Wessons is completely different and natural, as well. However, the frames of Smith & Wessons are a bit friendlier to smaller hands and the Colts for larger hands, when comparing small frame J frame S & W (like a Chief's Special) to Colt D frame (like a Detective Special and Cobra), a 357 or 38 K frame S & W to an I frame Colt (like the Python), or an N frame (like 44 Magnum) S & W to a large Colt New Service.
“Fanaticism consists of redoubling your efforts when you have forgotten your aim.”
saying in the British Royal Navy
saying in the British Royal Navy