Blueing

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aadhaulya
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Re: Blueing

Post by aadhaulya » Sat Jan 31, 2015 11:17 am

Dr. JK, thanks for all the information. I have just received the bluing solution from Ballistol india and have also placed the order on ebay.
Please let me know if the 'Rust Bluing' product is different or is it the same thing, only the process is different.

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aadhaulya
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Re: Blueing

Post by aadhaulya » Sun Feb 01, 2015 10:22 am

This is my first attempt of buling. I pulled out some old swords and knives and cleaned up one rusted sword to blue the hilt for trial before trying it on my guns.

Image
Image

I followed the bluing process twice as follows
1. Cleaned the hilt with a 220 emery followed by 400,
2. Digressed the part using petrol.
3. Applied the bluing solution and waited for 20 minuites and polished it with a dry soft cotton cloth.
4. Then oiled it well with gun oil.

Repeated the process but without the emery paper.

Now in the morning I saw that it does not have the expected shine. It looks more like a dull mat finish.

Where did I go wrong. Not used the emery properly, not enough gun oil or it needs rubbing and a wax polish?

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ckkalyan
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Re: Blueing

Post by ckkalyan » Sun Feb 01, 2015 11:36 am

Nice trial round, excellent effort aadhaulya :)

Check this out http://www.myarmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t=21395

Now, besides the blueing fans on IFG, you will have the whole CMG (Churi Mochi Gang) on your back for images and details about your collections of knives/sword(s)!! :lol:

Forgive me, I have very limited experience with blueing - ahem mainly limited - to getting blue in the face at times! :mrgreen:

ROTFL
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Re: Blueing

Post by aadhaulya » Sun Feb 01, 2015 5:43 pm

@ ckkalyan, I am trying to do it again tonight and see how it works out. Will definitely post all the blades, airguns and the fire arms including the ammunition.
Hope it works out this time.

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Re: Blueing

Post by dr.jayakumar » Mon Feb 02, 2015 9:51 am

aadhaulya wrote:Dr. JK, thanks for all the information. I have just received the bluing solution from Ballistol india and have also placed the order on ebay.
Please let me know if the 'Rust Bluing' product is different or is it the same thing, only the process is different.

Regards
Rust bluing solution is different and the process also differs.
regards
dr.jk

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Re: Blueing

Post by aadhaulya » Mon Feb 02, 2015 4:29 pm

Dear Dr. JK,
I have gone through the process that you posted. Now if you can please help in sourcing the 'Rust Bluing Solution'.
I followed the cold bluing process 2 more times and have got good results. The following are the pictures of the final finish on the hilt of one of the swords.
I would like to do the cold rust bluing on another sword and move on to airguns before attempting it on my guns.
Image
Image
Image

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TC
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Re: Blueing

Post by TC » Mon Feb 02, 2015 6:45 pm

Nice work AAdhaulya
Just want to remind you that hot bluing, rust bluing and cold bluing are three different processes involving different solutions and equipment.
For the job you have taken up, cold bluing is best because of several reasons - the most important being its easy to do at home and without removing the handle from the blade if that's difficult or impossible. Only cover the parts that are not to be blued with masking tape.

Having done this for many years and especially on aged guns let me give you a few tips:

1) Use raw alcohol (easily found it at chemists) to de-grease the steel. You are free to spend on de-greasing solution sold by Birchwood Casey etc. but raw alcohol works great and I have been using it for years. Petrol is a good general cleaning agent but cannot be used as degreaser in bluing.

2) You may soak the rusted portions with WD 40 to soften the rust in old weapons and use papers of different grid as you are doing.Once you are done with rust removing and polishing, clean and degrease the steel all over again. It has to be 100 % clean, dry and shiny for best results.

3) Before applying each coat of the bluing solution, boil clean water. I use packaged drinking water such as Kinley because in India tap water contains iron, cadmium and god knows what no matter what your govt says. I boil the water in a clean and degreased iron or aluminum container and dip the part to be blued for four/five minutes. The idea is to make the metal uniformly hot. So, it should not touch the bottom of the pot which is in direct contact with the source of heat. I use my wife's gas oven. :lol:

4) Apply the blue in unidirectional and uniform strokes. For the hilt I see in the picture half a tea spoon of the solution should be enough for two coats. Pour just as much in a clean and degreased plastic cup and use a clean piece of cotton (free of fibre) to apply the solution. Keep the original bottle of the bluing solution tightly capped and do not pour the solution on the cotton directly from the bottle. This often contaminates the entire content in the bottle. Bluing solution is very sensitive to foreign particles and chemicals.

5) Very lightly sand the blued parts before each successive coat. The idea is to lightly rub off a fine layer from surface of the coat that already exists. Clean the portion with a clean piece of cotton before applying the next coat.

5) After applying a coat wait till the solution is completely dry.

6) Keep applying one coat after another till you get the desired effect. After the last coat, clean the blued part in clean water of room temperature. Wipe it clean with a fresh piece of cotton. And now generously apply good quality gun oil. (I use Ballistol). Make sure the oil enters every nook and corner of the handle/ hilt. Since the steel had been dipped in water many times, make sure the oil gets everywhere and drives away the moisture.
Once oiling is done, leave the steel for one or two days in an airy room.

Now go back and read again. How many times have I used the word "clean" ?

Well, that's the main component in cold bluing.

:cheers:
TC

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Re: Blueing

Post by aadhaulya » Mon Feb 02, 2015 7:10 pm

got it @TC,
I had been working to remove the rust off another sword. But the rust is difficult to remove from this sword and a deep brown colour is emerging.
This one is about 150 years old inherited from my Grand Father. It seems to have an original dark brown coating on the hilt.
Can some expert guide me on this type of coating or maybe it is just the rust that has worked deep inside the hilt.

Regards

PS: TC I should be back in Kolkutta in the middle of February.

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TC
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Re: Blueing

Post by TC » Mon Feb 02, 2015 9:52 pm

aadhaulya wrote:got it @TC,
I had been working to remove the rust off another sword. But the rust is difficult to remove from this sword and a deep brown colour is emerging.
This one is about 150 years old inherited from my Grand Father. It seems to have an original dark brown coating on the hilt.
Can some expert guide me on this type of coating or maybe it is just the rust that has worked deep inside the hilt.

Regards

PS: TC I should be back in Kolkutta in the middle of February.
AAdhaulya,
150 year old rust is not easy to remove in one go. You are dealing with layers and years of oxidation. Spray WB 40 liberally and leave it work overnight. This is for the parts made of steel. Frankly, I think it may take many such sprays and leaving overnight to get rid of all the rust. But be patient and don't rub the metal too hard.
I don't think the hilts of all your swords (going by your description and the kind of pics you are posting) are made of steel. This one you are referring to could be made of brass or even an alloy. These develop deep patina over the years. Once you confirm that its brass or some alloy use lime or brasso.

Yes, last time I had to rush to a family wedding and could not make it. Please send me a text message before you land and let me know your plans.

:cheers:
TC

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Re: Blueing

Post by aadhaulya » Mon Feb 09, 2015 8:18 pm

TC wrote:AAdhaulya,
150 year old rust is not easy to remove in one go. You are dealing with layers and years of oxidation. Spray WB 40 liberally and leave it work overnight. This is for the parts made of steel. Frankly, I think it may take many such sprays and leaving overnight to get rid of all the rust. But be patient and don't rub the metal too hard.
I don't think the hilts of all your swords (going by your description and the kind of pics you are posting) are made of steel. This one you are referring to could be made of brass or even an alloy. These develop deep patina over the years. Once you confirm that its brass or some alloy use lime or brasso.

Yes, last time I had to rush to a family wedding and could not make it. Please send me a text message before you land and let me know your plans.

:cheers:
TC
Dear TC,

Thanks to your advise I have rubbed out most of the rust from the old sword. Though it does not have any intricate carvings as I expected but it seems to be a practical working mans sword. But the guard over the hilt has a somewhat delicate shape that comes out after the 10 days rubbing. Should be through the rubbing part in the next few days and ready for cold bluing, rust bluing or browning.

Following are photographs of the finished newer (25 year old) sword that I got fabricated from the leaf springs of a truck.

Image
Image
Image
Image


Regards

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TC
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Re: Blueing

Post by TC » Mon Feb 09, 2015 9:54 pm

Great job.Looks nice and clean for bluing.

:cheers:

TC

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Re: Blueing

Post by aadhaulya » Wed Apr 08, 2015 4:47 pm

I have a doubt on the process of rust bluing.
Can some one please clarify that in the process of rust bluing as given by Dr.JK, I understand that chemicals are used to speed up the process of rusting. The the part is then boiled in distilled water, which turns the brown rust to blue and then oil is applied to stop further rusting.
If that is so why do we have to remove the existing rust to again rust it for bluing.

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Re: Blueing

Post by Mark » Thu Apr 09, 2015 9:52 am

Aadhaulya,


To be honest, you do not need to. All you need to do is to let it rust and then boil it in water until the rust turns dark. However, the finished item will look like it was left to rust and then boiled in water :)

If you are curious, find an old rusted chain and put it in a pot and boil it for an hour or so. You will be amazed at how it looks when it comes out compared to how it looked when it went in.

With firearms and other fine pieces of metalwork the goal is to have a beautiful finished piece, and that is why there are so many steps and tedious labor involved. Additionally, there is a sterp called "carding" that you have left out which is done when the rusted metal is first boiled, the light surface is removed with steel wool or a fine steel wire brush (both are meticulously cleaned and degreased first like everything else). Remember, your goal is to have a beautifully polished finish with a luxurious black/blue color and nothing less.

Hope that helps explain it!

Regards,

Mark
"What if he had no knife? In that case he would not be a good bushman so there is no need to consider the possibility." H.A. Lindsay, 1947

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Re: Blueing

Post by aadhaulya » Thu Apr 09, 2015 12:44 pm

Thanks Mark, I will try it out on a rusted piece of metal. Please also let me know that if 'carding' is done before or after you boil the part, I am a little confused on this issue.

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Re: Blueing

Post by sumanngon » Thu Apr 09, 2015 1:14 pm

Try oil blueing. It brings out the best in swords and knifes. With knife vinegar/onion patina works out great too.

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