Both Eyes Open

[a_kamal]

Hi Guys ,

Taking inspiration from the great hunter writer Jim Corbett who used to shoot with both eyes open ,I started to practise shooting with both eyes open , following are my reflections on this activity

1. possible with open sighted rifle or shotgun.
2. takes some time to concentrate and focus on the target .
3. becomes real easy once you get a hang of it and shooting at moving targets even with AR becomes possible.
4. however shooting at moving targets also requirs employment of your judgement of speed of the target and anticipating its next position .
5. I took over 2 months to able to make consecutive hits on a swinging cherry blossom shoe polish tin box at 20 paces with my AR.
6. I found that AR with slower rate like 500/600 are more accurate for this kind of shooting.
7. Another thing that impressed me was how all your senses become alert and focused without being distracted and aiming seems to become a reflexive act with one
eye down the barrell other following the target .

I have read about Bill Cody and i believe after a century he still holds the record for hitting highest no. of flying obects (coal pieces) dont know if he also shot with both eyes , one down the barrel other on target like Jim Corbett did .

Though I never doubted Jim Corbett would have still believed his word without experimenting on it , however i can say here with my experience added it is very much possible and far more entertaining than plinking ,

please share your experience if you have tried it , OR , try it and let me Know your experience

[Basu]

I have seen various target shooters keep both eyes open while shooting.
I tried to do the same , but unable to cocentrate on target.
I went back , shooting with one eye.

Basu

[a_kamal]

Hi Basu
u got it right by identifying the key factor that is concentration as the vision from both eyes have a overlapping area and it requires practice to look dead ahead so that the hind & foresight jump up in relief of your shooting eye vision while the target is the subject of your other eye.

other images will be there but with time you can learn to ignore them, try with open foresight it is much easier then.

[fantumfan2003]

Target shooters in 10mtr and other disciplines always shoot with both eyes open. Some use blinders to cover the non aiming eye.

M.

[TC]

A_kamal

If you look at a target through the sights (open or optical ) with an eye and keep the other eye open you don't see any less. Use a blinder and you will know that there is no difference. In fact after some practice you may even feel that you see things better.

In fact, the effort given to keep the other eye closed, especially over a long period, puts pressure on optic muscles and actually strains the eye that takes aim. It may even water faster than it normally does.

Yet, millions of people keep an eye closed...

TC

[a_kamal]

Dear M,

Yes, i Know- but that is completely different philosophy , which says that upon closing non aiming eye the aiming eye also reflexively closes partialy whether intended or not, so target shooters keep both eyes open to make the most of their 6/6 vision ,

hope you agree , share your view on this

[a_kamal]

Hi TC,

I agree with you till you are shooting on a range sighting a target , keeping both eyes open and use blinder will increase the efficiency by decreasing the strain .

but my intentions were to use both eyes for aiming and targeting , in this case target was moving , so the aiming eye keeps the sights aligned and the non aiming eye times the target , thus both eyes help you in the game .

[timmy]

I do shoot with both eyes open. I trained myself to shoot this way when I was young. Some claim it makes no difference. I feel that it adds to a better overall sight picture for me. If you decide to try it, it is something you have to stick with for awhile. Whether it is better or not, scientifically, I don't know and have not seen any data suggesting it does help or it doesn't.

It is my preference -- that's about all I can say with authority.

[bennedose]

A_kamal

If you look at a target through the sights (open or optical ) with an eye and keep the other eye open you don't see any less. Use a blinder and you will know that there is no difference. In fact after some practice you may even feel that you see things better.

In fact, the effort given to keep the other eye closed, especially over a long period, puts pressure on optic muscles and actually strains the eye that takes aim. It may even water faster than it normally does.

Yet, millions of people keep an eye closed...

TC

You are fundamentally correct. In the old days, when microscopes had only one eyepiece, medical students were taught to keep both eyes open while looking into the scope. However they were advised to look using one eye turned outwards (ie away from the nose), by turning the head to the opposite side of the eye being used to look into the eyepiece. In that position the other eye that is simply open and not sighting anything is turned inwards towards the bridge of the nose (the upper part) which shades that eye from distracting light and movement while one can concentrate on what the other eye is seeing in the microscope. The position of the head and sighting eye for a shooter is exactly the opposite of that and one has to peer down in the same direction that the head is turned while shooting.

As regards shooting - I have no disagreement with the "keep both eyes open" suggestion although I myself keep one eye shut for a reason. As I grew older I found that screwing my eyes and partially closing them helped me to focus better on the rear sight and front sight. Now that I have my own (home made custom built) glasses for shooting, I really should try keeping both eyes open - but I am now so used to keeping one eye shut and I have no powerful incentive to shoot any better.

[TC]

Precisely, each man has to find his own solution. As Timmy pointed out, he has successfully adapted himself to keeping both eyes open.
As far as I am concerned, I can't see a coin sized object beyond seven mts. with my left eye while my right eye is really strong. I was born like this, so was my dad and his dad.
My grandpa and my father always kept their left eye shut while shooting but I somehow manage to shoot pistols/ revolvers with both eyes open when the target is within 25 mts. But while shooting rifles with open sights at longer distance I have to keep the left eye shut. Yet, while using a scope on the same rifle I can manage to aim with both eyes open. I am not equipped to explain this scientifically but that's how it is.

This, I must admit, is becoming a very interesting thread. Thanks



TC

[a_kamal]

Hi bennedose ,

By mentioning microscope you bring back memories of school , though it was not old days , but the microscope was an antiquity and we were specifically commanded to cover one eye with our hand to peer in to see how germanium seeds run about and other sundry slides , these slides were locally cut from glass panes very fragile and with sharp edges,

and today i did some research on the the advantage of keeping both eyes open found one "Center Mass Group" they provide military combat training and advocate the benefits of open eyes in situations caing for quick action without compromising the acuracy, this of course again may not be relevant to shooting fixed targets on range .

they also give a simple technique to practise targeting with both eyes

[brihacharan]

Hi there!
> Just came across some useful tips on the subject - thought I'll share these, so here goes....

SHOOTING WITH BOTH EYES OPEN
http://www.juliegolob.com/shooting-tip- ... -both-eyes open

There are plenty of benefits to shooting with both eyes open especially when shooting shotguns and handguns, but training yourself to do it can be challenging for some. For many, it is a struggle to fight the natural instinct to close one eye. So how do you train yourself to kick that habit?

HOW TO TRAIN TO KEEP BOTH EYES OPEN
1. The first step is to determine if you can see the sights with both eyes.
2. If you can’t get a clear sight picture on target with both eyes open, or if you see two front sights or some other strange configuration that is nearly impossible to decipher, then shooting with both eyes open may not work for you.
3. It’s not the end of the world. It’s more important that you are able to acquire a proper sight picture and hit your target.
4. If you are a competition shooter you can get a little help from some frosted tape. In most cases it’s just a matter of determining your eye dominance and placing a piece of tape on your eye protection on the lens in front of your non-dominant eye.
5. The tape blocks this eye from seeing the sights, but still allows you full access to your peripheral vision.
6. An effective way to prevent your-self from closing an eye is to spend a good amount of time dry firing. (Dry fire means NO AMMO!)
7. Practice acquiring the sights with both eyes open. Start with the firearm at low ready with both eyes on the target.
8. Bring the gun up to your line of sight and acquire the proper sight picture on your target. The repetition of presenting the gun will help train you to keep those eyes open for when you transition to shooting in live fire. Just like with any habit, you’ll need to train yourself to stop which means more than just a few times dry firing.
9. When you hit the shooting range, you may find that despite all that dry practice, you still close an eye. It might be a matter of sympathetic reaction to recoil.
10. 0.22 caliber, airsoft guns and light loads can help you transition to larger calibers and full power ammunition.
11. Just as you had to concentrate keeping both eyes open in dry fire, it’s likely you will have to do the same during your live fire training as well.

It would be better to always use both eyes in all shooting situations. The questions are-
A. Can you?
B. Is it natural at long distances?

Finally few shooters worry about all these finer points, and few instructors dare to travel deep into these subjects with their students.
Can you imagine explaining all these factors to an average shooter? Imagine giving in-the-field eye exams to weekend warriors and then herd them to a separate range to work on their unique, handicapped problems?

Result - Information overload! Analysis paralysis!
Briha

[marksman]

If one has trained enough to recognise the master eye image in a fraction of a second, it's not very difficult to shoot accurately. I wouldn't be able to comment on specialised target rifle. Yours truly has witnessed hunters bringing down running game with a scoped rifle administering a perfect shot placement with both their eyes open.......this of course was in the days of yore. That's probably the reason why hunters chose double rifles in close encounters not unlike with a double shotgun. Just MHO.
Marksman

[fantumfan2003]

Dont know about that.
What I do know is that by keeping the non shooting eye open, the shooter does not strain muscles needed to close the eye.

Most target shooters find it difficult to look at the sight picture with both eyes open and non shooting eye uncovered. I know only two who can do it. Simple solution is to keep non shooting eye open and cover it with a blinder. That way effort can be put in to improving other aspects of shooting rather than such trivial matters.

Are you a target shooter ? If yes then just follow your coach or the book you refer to. Your thinking days will come when you coach others. Follow your coach or book for now and focus on improving your shooting.

All the best.

M.

Dear M,

Yes, i Know- but that is completely different philosophy , which says that upon closing non aiming eye the aiming eye also reflexively closes partialy whether intended or not, so target shooters keep both eyes open to make the most of their 6/6 vision ,

hope you agree , share your view on this

[bennedose]

and today i did some research on the the advantage of keeping both eyes open found one "Center Mass Group" they provide military combat training and advocate the benefits of open eyes in situations caing for quick action without compromising the acuracy, this of course again may not be relevant to shooting fixed targets on range .

they also give a simple technique to practise targeting with both eyes

Kamal, there is a central point in every eye (macula) where detail can be seen. Small text and fine details can only be seen from that central point. However, the rest of the large area of the back of the eyeball is very good at sensing movement and is better at sensing light from dark.

In a combat situation a soldier would be cutting off 90% of his vision by closing one eye and concentrating on the sight alone. If he keeps both eyes open, he can concentrate on the target with his aiming eye and yet see movement and flashes on the sides with the other eye that is wide open. In that sense you were dead right about clay pigeon shooting - keeping both eyes open helps judging distance and movement.

The ability to focus on one "target"/prey in front while being able to detect movement (threats) on the sides is essential for animal survival. It is also essential for driving where you keep an focus on the middle distance in front while the sides of your eye tell you about movements (traffic) on the sides. Watching "Enter the Dragon" is is fascinating the way Bruce Lee would take on threats from the sides (arranged for the movie no doubt) by keeping his head still, eyes seeming to look ahead but wide open and ready to sense movement from the sides. If you have a dog - you will see that if you try and relieve your pet dog of a bone in his mouth he watches you exactly in that manner.