Lady and guards shoot intruders in Kolkata

[Vikram]

Since you do not wish to engage in a constructive debate, this is the last post by me on this topic with respect to you.

The penny finally dropped !
Thank you !

Now only if you could refrain yourself from the will to engage me in " Constructive " debate in other topics too , that would be great .

And I am hoping , timmy does the same .

No, every time you attempt pontificate on important topics that you know little about, you will be challenged to back up your assertions lest an innocent soul mistake your ignorance for wisdom.

[timmy]

Since you do not wish to engage in a constructive debate, this is the last post by me on this topic with respect to you.

The penny finally dropped !
Thank you !

Now only if you could refrain yourself from the will to engage me in " Constructive " debate in other topics too , that would be great .

And I am hoping , timmy does the same .

Hope on, laddie!

+1 to Vikram's comment

If you think you will come on this site and spew your ill-educated drivel without challenge, you are the one for whom the penny needs to drop, sir.

I find it interesting that the penny you wanted to drop -- the point you were waiting for us to realize -- was that you didn't actually want to engage in constructive debate. At last, a point where I can admire your honesty.

[Safarigent]

FN Five Seven,
You should be ashamed of yourself.
Not because of your view point. We are entitled to them. You are most certainly entitled to yours.
But the absolutely idiotic way in which you are refusing to even listen or understand what other more knowledgeable members are saying and using this as an opportunity to understand these issues more, instead going on and pontificating about your half baked theories and dubious pearls of wisdom is baffling.
Infact, its tragic.
In equal parts it is funny.
You are the kind of people who dont belong here.

[nagarifle]

it amazes me, when one defends the right of the criminals and not the victims. i suppose as they say birds of the same feather stay together

[winnie_the_pooh]

birds of the same feather stay together

They have no hope against a lady armed with a shotgun and the b***s to use it She may be in jail and in for a long legal fight but at least she is alive.

[bennedose]

it amazes me, when one defends the right of the criminals and not the victims. i suppose as they say birds of the same feather stay together

With respect nagarifle, isn't it up to the courts to decide who is the criminal and who was a victim? A decision made by anyone else as to who might be a criminal and who might be a victim is just an opinion at this point in time.

[nagarifle]

sometimes we need to decide who is the victim and who is the criminals. when someone defends them selves against large number of violent men with pure intended to do harm. then are you able to say who is the victim and who is the criminals? if not then we are poor human beings incapable to see the light of the day.

my point- can we not least support the defending action of a lady? after all she did defend here self to the best of her ability at the time.
not if she used arms which may or may not be illegal?

as for the courts? a good layer can lead the court down to the garden path and get the criminal off the charge sheet.

or do we just exit to debate the rights and wrongs of ones action?

[bennedose]

sometimes we need to decide who is the victim and who is the criminals. when someone defends them selves against large number of violent men with pure intended to do harm. then are you able to say who is the victim and who is the criminals? if not then we are poor human beings incapable to see the light of the day.

my point- can we not least support the defending action of a lady? after all she did defend here self to the best of her ability at the time.
not if she used arms which may or may not be illegal?

as for the courts? a good layer can lead the court down to the garden path and get the criminal off the charge sheet.

or do we just exit to debate the rights and wrongs of ones action?

While I respect your right to hold your viewpoint, there may be others who hold the opposite viewpoint, and claim that you are wrong.

Ultimately whatever the court decides is the law, subject to the ultimate ruling of the highest court of the land.

I have a concern about people on the forum blindly and aggressively supporting one party as innocent while calling another party "criminal" on the basis of prima facie information from the media. On the one hand great care is taken to ensure that the forum does not in any way encourage any action that is against the law in india. That means there is no talking about hunting in India or how to acquire and illegal weapon even for the sake of theoretical discussion. In the middle of all this if we take sides in a dispute such as this, which is clearly criminal action involving over a dozen people, firearms and deaths and start saying that all forum members who do not hold the same opinion are on the side of criminals it will be perfectly fine provided the side that one takes turns out to be innocent. We will not know that for a while as long as the case is in court.

But suppose, say 1 year down the court judges that party X who used weapons is a criminal. By that time this discussion will have been forgotten, but by chance if some lurker finds this thread and sees posts where the guilty party X has been vehemently defended as innocent, then a vested interest can easily use old forum posts to demonstrate that this forum has maniacs who will blindly support anyone who fires a gun at anyone else without even waiting for a ourt judgement. All the care and diligence that is taken to show that gun owners and users are a responsible and caring lot will be thrown to the wind simply because of hasty judgemental statements made in the absence of information. I feel very strongly that in criminal cases it is
1. Wrong to reach hasty judgements without acccurate information
2. Wrong to simply curse the police as being wrong without adequate information.

In my view it is OK to be sympathetic to whichever party one supports as per the news without being doagmatic and judgemental. I think that if the long term goal is to change attitudes and laws in India to make gun use more liberal and accessible, it is incumbent upon forum members to go that extra step in being careful about what is being said.

[nagarifle]

bennedose

at last we are getting there. thanks

[BowMan]

Bravo to the women...that is exactly how one is supposed to defend ones home. Seems perfectly clear considering 1 they scaled the walls. 2 they assaulted and overpowered the guard 3. they forcibly dismantled the homes defenses and allowed for more of their accomplices to enter the house.

The only thing that could weaken the defense of the women would be if she shot some of the intruders in the back when they were fleeing or if she was aware of any impending assault on her property and amassed the weapons (illegally) instead of informing the police. That would be homicide and criminal conspiracy.

[BowMan]

These guards were hired by the lady a few days ago.

Very interesting. Did she care to inform the local Police also? In fact I am not so sure of my earlier post after reading this update from TC.

[TC]

These guards were hired by the lady a few days ago.

Very interesting. Did she care to inform the local Police also? In fact I am not so sure of my earlier post after reading this update from TC.

There is no evidence of the lady officially informing the police about recruitment of these two security guards who have also been charged under the same sections (homicide etc) as her. In fact inquiries by the police and the media have revealed that these two men did not work for any security agency. One of them was known to and probably worked for Nahata who owned the firearms and, as I mentioned earlier, was not present at the premises on the night of the incident. He returned home later. The other man is reportedly a relative of Mamta Agarwal. Investigators claim one of them and the lady knew very well how to load and fire the .315 IOF rifle and the 12 bore double.

I did not mention this since it was all over the news that members were referring to.

Some Updates
Nahata was admitted to the Intensive Care Unit at a city nursing home once again last week in critical condition. His condition reportedly improved on Sunday. But the police could not talk to him.

There is another point that finds mention in the police records. The group of people who came to the house in question also comprised two/three LADY security guards. But they did not enter the premises and sat in one of the vehicles in which the group of 21 people came.

So long

TC

[airgun_novice]

Thx SD for pointing me out this thread. All this going on in Bengal and in Maharashtra the media goes ... "Sachin... Sachin".

[bennedose]

Apologies if this was posted earlier. I stil can't understand it.I wonder if someone else can figure out what the report if trying to say.
http://www.hindustantimes.com/india-new ... 50103.aspx

A tussle between two real estate dealers, who are known to trade in disputed properties, resulted in the firing at 9A Short Street in the wee hours of Monday.

One of the dealers - Ratan lal Nahatta - who had the possession of the plot - claimed that he had bought the property by virtue of a will executed by the owner. Mamata Agarwal - the killer - was a close aide of Nahatta and used to stay in the property.

The other party claimed to have purchased the property from Rajesh Damani, owner of a Mumbai-based company.

The Mumbai-based company had bought the property directly from the owner on June 21, 1999.

Papers in possession with HT states that two late brothers Rajendranath Sein and Harendranath Sein from Madan Mitra Lane in Bhowanipore were joint owners of the property on 9 Short Street measuring one bigha 15 cottahs and 10 square feet.

In 1946, a deed of partition was executed and Rajendranath Sein’s wife Saila Bala Sein became sole owner of a 17 cottahs 12 chataks and 35 square feet of land in the property that was renumbered and separately assessed as premises number 9A.

Harendranath Sein’s descendants became sole owner of this plot.

“She has sold the property to HeartLine Estate Private Limited. In 2010, I entered into a selling agreement with the company and eventually became a confirming party and cancelled the agreement when Sanjay Surekha and his wife purchased the property,” said Parag Majmudar, who is believed to have issued the threat.

The shooter had also brought allegations against Trinamool Congress leader Kaushik Sen. Sen was a Congressman who joined Trinamool Congress after change in Writers’ Building and is an employee of Parag Majmudar’s firm.

“Nahatta was broker in the deal between Heartline and Sein and he was acting as a caretaker of the property and took its possession. In fact, there was an agreement whereby Nahatta was suppose to vacate the possession after taking Rs. 3 crores from Surekha,” added Majmudar.

On the other hand, Nahatta claimed that he has purchased the property from Rumi Sein and Rakhi Sein - grand daughters of Harendranath - who became the owner by virtue of a will executed by Saila Bala Sein.

Nahatta moved court in 2011 demanding his sole ownership but court is yet to deliver a final verdict. Meanwhile, Surekha then filed an eviction case against Nahatta and the verdict is still pending.

[bennedose]

Even more confusion if anyone is interested
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city ... 961805.cms

KOLKATA: It's a tough task for police. The more sleuths try to unravel the "conspiracy" behind the Short Street shootout, more skeletons keep tumbling out of the closet.

On Sunday, Pinakesh Dutta reportedly told interrogators to have paid a police officer Rs 15 lakh to help them enter - and take over - the 9A Short Street property. If his brazen "confession" turns out to be true, it will lend weight to the growing rumblings of police-realtor nexus, partly responsible for the shoot-out last Monday killing two persons.

Sleuths, who've have been quizzing Pinakesh round-the-clock to know what he did with the Rs 1.5-crore that Parag Majmudar allegedly paid him to evict Mamta Agarwal from the Short Street property, claim that Pinakesh had paid Rs 3 lakh to advocate Partha Chatterjee, Rs 50,000 to Aroop Debnath and Rs 15 lakh to the cop. A whopping Rs 82 lakh in cash was seized from Pinakesh's Bagha Jatin bank locker on Saturday evening.

Sleuths suspect this is a part of the cash Parag reportedly paid Pinakesh. But by naming a cop as a direct beneficiary, he gave the sleuths a shockcame as a shocker for investigators. On the face of it, Pinakesh couldn't provide sleuths any material evidence of such an allegation. But his call record details may leave a trail. A formal admission of this, however, has its legal repercussions for the police officer then has to be booked under the Prevention of Corruption Act, a fresh embarrassment to the beleaguered cops.

Ever since the 3am shootout, barely metres away from the city police chief's residence took place, Shakespeare Sarani cops have been under scanner on two counts.

The first relates to police inaction on the series of complaints and counter complaints filed since 2010 relating to this case (by the last count around 20 general dairy entries and 8 FIRs). The second relates to their delayed reaction last Monday. Additional CP (I) Sudhir Mishra has been tasked to probe these. The first result - sub inspector Noor Alam has been moved from Shakespeare Sarani to the relatively innocuous district reserve office. DCP (south) Murlidhar Sharma has been asked to file a separate report on OC Shakespeare Sarani's role - often a prelude to any precipitate action, if at all.

Another allegation which has surfaced owes its genesis to the seized call record details of the alleged "masterminds." A police officer had called umpteen times from 2-6am last Monday to one of the accused now in custody. This leads to a very troubling question. Was the police, or some of them, aware of what was going to happen that fateful morning.

Pinakesh alleged that not only were the police aware of the impending takeover bid that day, it was police who told him at that time of the day, no patrol remained in Short Street's vicinity. The latter, ironically, appeared to be a fact as cops had to rush from the police station when gunshots were reported.

The CDR details also bring to fore a local Trinamool Congress leader who too has been calling this arrested person at least six times, dead at the night. This politician incidentally was slapped with a rioting case back in 2010 when he - along with his supporters - tried to hold a "demonstration" inside the 9A Short Street premises. To be fair, this politician was with Congress then. He is likely to be questioned soon.

For all the allegations and claims, their appears to be one which is most intriguing. It is on the alleged role of another lawyer, who on different occasions represented Ratanlal Nahata. This lawyer, Pinakesh claims, is also a beneficiary of the ill-gotten funds. Pinakesh claims this lawyer had met Nahata and the latter had agreed to play ball. But whether Nahata was actually double-crossing his niece, Mamta, can only be known after he is grilled.