IHP "National" air rifles & pistols

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brihacharan
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Re: IHP "National" air rifles & pistols

Post by brihacharan » Mon Oct 14, 2013 9:47 am

Hi David,
> Awesome work - well crafted :D
> Two things I wish to know....
1. Did you re-fashion the old stock?
2. If not what wood did you use & did you use any wood working tools (router) to get the contours?
> Like the way you have extended the fore-end to cover the cocking arm.
Good show!
Briha

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Re: IHP "National" air rifles & pistols

Post by pratik_mahale » Mon Oct 14, 2013 11:09 am

Excellent work David
Is the stock length is longer than the original IHP stock

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Re: IHP "National" air rifles & pistols

Post by moulindu » Mon Oct 14, 2013 1:52 pm

Hi
pratik_mahale wrote:Is the stock length is longer than the original IHP stock
Pratikji by the look of it seems the stock is longer than the original stock as the hinge point of the cocking arm is covered by the stock & I also guess that the stock at the end of the the receiver tube is also extended, this mite help in an extended eye relief for scopes. Proud owner can give a better perspective.
The fore arm holding part is also protruded like those in Field Target models.
Really appreciate the thought process put into the designing of the stock before making out the finished product. Hats off brother
reagrds Moulindu

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Re: IHP "National" air rifles & pistols

Post by David » Tue Oct 15, 2013 2:01 pm

Thanks to all who viewed my post . Here are some more details to what my IFG friends has asked for.

1. I had a Air Arms but not any more and I was inspired by the design. And I wanted to make one for my IHP and what I had shown was the end result.

2. The Original tree I used for is from what is called "Thespesia populnea tree" commonly known as Portia tree. In Native Tamil, its called "Poovarasam Maram".
I had some left over after making home furniture and I used it for my Air Gun Stock.
It is largely used in making instruments and they have bast fibres. Its not easy to work with, like Teak or other wood.
It has to be dried to the maximum so that every part of the wood from outside till deep inside is completely dry.

3. This stock is completely from Scratch .
Length was increased to 2 inch more than the regular IHP stock to cover the hinge point of the cocking arm.
This I liked because I had by Diana's where I first saw this type of finish.

4. I also Extended the length of the receiver tube compare to how it rest in the Original IHP stock. As Moulindu stated, its very much for the purpose of eye relief .
The forearm was protruded so that you have a better balance , as I had tried out the FT airguns and its has a different feel and comfort .

5. After my new stock , the Air gun is well balanced and I don't feel the weight and no twang sound :)
Though the sound could be because of internals, but I don't hear after the new stock was mounted.

6. Checkering was designed and done by a know person using basic carpenter tools. No machine work. All hand made.

7. Cost is something that I burnt my fingers . But worth paying for what I got now. :)

8. I have some more work on this to complete. Will post my updated version soon.

Thanks to all
David

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Re: IHP "National" air rifles & pistols

Post by brihacharan » Tue Oct 15, 2013 3:20 pm

Hi David,
The Original Wood I used is from what is called "Thespesia populnea tree" commonly known as Portia tree. In Native Tamil, its called "Poovarasam Maram".

Portia is a fine grained wood...Originally found in Polynesian islands...
It was used by early Spanish Gun Makers for stocking their rifles & shot guns.
If sanded well & oiled it will show up a nice grain structure....
Stock making has become very expensive these days .... Costs almost as much as the gun itself :lol:
The reason why you are not experiencing any vibration is because the Portia Wood absorbs these & also your fitment of the action to the stock must be good.
All in all - Good Job :D
Briha

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Re: IHP "National" air rifles & pistols

Post by VishyB » Wed Oct 16, 2013 9:51 pm

Hi Friends,

I bought an IHP 35 in 0.22 cal a few days ago.
I am on a learning curve but the rifle seems to be shooting OK
I noticed that there is no separate washer or O-ring for sealing the breech
There seems to be some tacky / rubbery layer pasted on.
Would experienced members like to comment on this?
Is this durable?
Does it need special care or something I need to keep an eye on?
Can it be reapplied easily if dislodged / worn away with use?

(I have tried to attach link to a a picture but this is my second post after the intro & not sure if it works)
http://vishyb.zenfolio.com/p612838644/e39d91d01

Regards,
Vishwanath

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Re: IHP "National" air rifles & pistols

Post by bennedose » Thu Oct 17, 2013 9:24 am

VishyB wrote:Hi Friends,

I bought an IHP 35 in 0.22 cal a few days ago.
I am on a learning curve but the rifle seems to be shooting OK
I noticed that there is no separate washer or O-ring for sealing the breech
There seems to be some tacky / rubbery layer pasted on.
Would experienced members like to comment on this?
Is this durable?
Does it need special care or something I need to keep an eye on?
Can it be reapplied easily if dislodged / worn away with use?

(I have tried to attach link to a a picture but this is my second post after the intro & not sure if it works)
http://vishyb.zenfolio.com/p612838644/e39d91d01

Regards,
Vishwanath

As long as there is no air leak I would not worry about it. Rubber O rings are themselves not the most reliable and everything can wear out over time. On an old SDB I won I simply make my own leather washer using an old shoe. That IHO ring is broader than the ring on my Orion and the one that was there on an old Weihrauch HW 35 I used to own

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Re: IHP "National" air rifles & pistols

Post by brihacharan » Thu Oct 17, 2013 11:38 am

bennedose wrote: Hi Friends,
As long as there is no air leak I would not worry about it. Rubber O rings are themselves not the most reliable and everything can wear out over time. On an old SDB I won I simply make my own leather washer using an old shoe. That IHO ring is broader than the ring on my Orion and the one that was there on an old Weihrauch HW 35 I used to own
Friends,
> Don't underestimate the importance of the "Breech Seal"...
> These need to be replaced after 500 to 1000 shots....
> IMHO - 'O' rings are best - easily available in hardware stores...
> Remember to insert a 0.5mm metal shim first - on top of which place the 'O' ring...
> The fitting should be snug to avoid air leakage...
> All my 3 ARs have these fitted - Gives me consistent velocity up to 500+ shots :D
Briha

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Re: IHP "National" air rifles & pistols

Post by VishyB » Thu Oct 17, 2013 7:08 pm

Dear Bennedose - Thank you for the reassuring comment regarding width of the seal

Briha Ji - Thank you for the feedback on O-rings

I was somehow under the impression that there is no groove on the breech face.
It seems that some of the seal has covered the edges of any groove if present.
I tried to check out with a fine pointed pin.
There seems to be unyielding metal at the outer edges & some resilience in the centre indicating possibility of a groove
I shall wait till it leaks after (hopefully) lots of use and then do some R&D

Regards,
Vishwanath

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Re: IHP "National" air rifles & pistols

Post by plinkster » Fri Oct 18, 2013 1:00 am

Hi,
In most of the current IHPs, (M35 0.177), you can use an O-Ring having OD 15 and thickness of 3-3.5mm. (A 12x3 ring or a 11.8x3.53 ring should do)
Depending on your gun, the depth of the groove might be more or less than the thickness of the O-Ring and you might have to file 1 face of the ring to make it near to flush with the surface. The easiest way to do so is to insert the O-Ring into the groove and start filing away evenly with a smooth file till the surfaces are flush. Then you just flip the O-Ring back in. In some rare cases, you might need to insert a shim (if the groove is too deep).

The O-Ring is much better than the leather seal, and at Rs.3 per piece, is damn cheap and easily replaceable on the fly (you can easily carry a couple of spare, prepared O-Rings with you). The sealing is much better as you file the ring in place thereby providing the exact shape, and you will see a marked increase in power as compared to the leather seal (which does leak a bit - tried with talcum powder and tissue paper test).

Here are a few pics of the O-Ring
IMG_20131018_002528.jpg
IMG_20131018_002735.jpg
IMG_20131018_001854.jpg
IMG_20131018_001840.jpg
IMG_20131018_001917.jpg
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Re: IHP "National" air rifles & pistols

Post by plinkster » Fri Oct 18, 2013 1:30 am

VishyB wrote:Dear Bennedose - Thank you for the reassuring comment regarding width of the seal

Briha Ji - Thank you for the feedback on O-rings

I was somehow under the impression that there is no groove on the breech face.
It seems that some of the seal has covered the edges of any groove if present.
I tried to check out with a fine pointed pin.
There seems to be unyielding metal at the outer edges & some resilience in the centre indicating possibility of a groove
I shall wait till it leaks after (hopefully) lots of use and then do some R&D

Regards,
Vishwanath
Don't wait. Just take a fine screw driver or sharp knife or a stiff needle and remove the leather seal. Put an O-Ring in place as shown in my above post. It's worth it. If you take the correct dimensions, the O-Ring will be a snug fit. Just file it off so that only about 0.3-0.5 mm remains above the surface. The sealing will be perfect and you will have no power loss at the breech.

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Re: IHP "National" air rifles & pistols

Post by Basu » Fri Oct 18, 2013 8:56 am

Hi Plinkster,
Any specific reference or name of this breech seal ?
Where to get in general ?
Resilience ?

Basu
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Re: IHP "National" air rifles & pistols

Post by brihacharan » Fri Oct 18, 2013 10:09 am

Basu wrote: Hi Plinkster,
Any specific reference or name of this breech seal ?
Where to get in general ?
Resilience ?
Basu
Basu,
> You can get "O" rings in any reputed hardware store. There are no specific 'Brand Names' - An 'O' ring is an 'O' ring :D
> "Resilience" means its capacity to spring back to its original shape after compression - This means that when the breech is closed (as in when the barrel is locked) the 'O' ring compresses to seal the gap - preventing any air leak. And after the shot is fired & you cock the AR the 'O' ring springs back to its original shape :D
> "Bhujle"???
Briha

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Re: IHP "National" air rifles & pistols

Post by VishyB » Fri Oct 18, 2013 12:00 pm

Dear Plinkster,

Thank you for the detailed instructions and pictures
I shall do a leak test using talcum powder at the earliest and consider fitting O-ring accordingly

Regards,
Vishwanath

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Re: IHP "National" air rifles & pistols

Post by plinkster » Fri Oct 18, 2013 1:21 pm

Basu wrote:Hi Plinkster,
Any specific reference or name of this breech seal ?
Where to get in general ?
Resilience ?

Basu
You just ask for an O-Ring at any hydraulic / pneumatic equipment supplier. Any O-Ring will do - soft or hard (the resilience or material will not matter). Get a couple extra rings just in case. You should be easily able to get the O-Rings somewhere nearby.
Just in case you cannot get them, write to me and I can get the O-Ring for you and mail it to you. If yours is a 0.177, the size will be 1.2x3 (IDxCS) , but if it is 0.22, you will need to measure the dimensions. If you dont have a vernier, you can take your gun to the shop and ask him to measure it for you.

Also, as I mentioned in the above posts, you may have to file the O-Ring on 1 side to ensure that the raised portion is not more than half a millimeter. AFTER the filing, do remember to FLIP the O-Ring in the groove, so that the filed face is in the groove, and the untouched portion is above.

Cheers,
Plinkster

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