My amazing Mauser mod 66 rifle

[Ramandeep]

Very cool and very interesting rifle indeed...

Ramandeep why not give us a pictorial demonstration of some of the unique design characteristics of this rifle so we all can enjoy and appreciate it a bit more. We would love to see pictures of how the 'telescopic short-stroke action' works on this. Can you please post step by step sequential working pictures of the action? Can you also show us how the double trigger works and what is the trigger pressure and feel like on the front one (which I believe is the firing trigger) after the rear trigger is engaged? Also one of the unique features of the Model 66 was the easy interchangeability of barrels. Does this rifle also have another barrel and if yes than what calibre?

Definitely I would try to upload more detailed pictures of the rifle. As for the trigger pressure (yes the front one is firing trigger) I cant explain in numbers what's the exact pressure required to pull it although simply I can explain that once you engage the rear trigger than one have to keep a very steady finger one slight move and the trigger goes BOOM thats all it takes. NO, the rifle doesnt have interchangable barrel.

[BowMan]

My only ray of hope is that these ammo are still being manufactured not phased out of production as yet.

Worry not for RWS is at least one manufacturer I know of that does make this round...

123123.JPG

http://rws-munition.de/en/hunting/produ ... ml#!0/0/22

There are also some not so well known american brands...

Why not try contacting a dealer that stocks RWS ammunition and he should be able to import it for you.

[Vikram]

Apart from RWS, Brenneke themselves offer this cartridge.

http://www.brenneke-munition.de/cms/tug93x64.html?&L=1




http://www.brenneke-munition.de/cms/tog93x64.html?&L=1

[TC]

What a beauty... !! Love the double set triggers.
Congrats Ramandeep

Sorry I missed this post. Dealers in Kanpur and Meerut stock all kinds of ammo. You could check these two cities.



TC

[bennedose]

A noob question.

Would 9.3 be a prohibited bore in India?

[timmy]

A very interesting rifle with many nice touches! It has a lot of the traditional German features -- very nice! Thanks for sharing all of the pics.

[Vikram]

A noob question.

Would 9.3 be a prohibited bore in India?

No. For more on that subject

http://indiansforguns.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=2780

[xl_target]

It seems that 9.3 X 64 Brenneke ammo is available at a very reasonable 99 cents a round.
See HERE
Whether you will be able to import it to India is another story. BTW this stuff is made in Russia, I believe.

[Sakobav]

Congrats nice rare find

[TC]

It seems that 9.3 X 64 Brenneke ammo is available at a very reasonable 99 cents a round.
See HERE
Whether you will be able to import it to India is another story. BTW this stuff is made in Russia, I believe.

XL,
The 9.3X 64 Brenneke is indeed a Russian ammo developed for army snipers and was supposed to deliver more power than the standard 7.62 X 54 round. The fact that a Mauser 66 was made in a caliber that was exclusively Russian makes this weapon all the more interesting I guess. The Model 66 was developed as a hunting rifle during the Cold War and today it is mostly found in popular calibers such as 375 H &H magnum, 7 mm Remington mag, .270 Winchester mag etc. My question is, is is possible that the rifle (or the barrel ) too was made in Russia ?

TC

[Vikram]

TC,

The 9.3x64 Brenneke is neither developed by the Russians, nor is it an exclusively Russian calibre. It was Wilhelm Brenneke's proprietary cartridge intended to be a hunting cartridge that can be chambered in standard length Mauser 98 bolt actions. Designed way back in 1927 in Germany. The Russians designed an armour piercing version of this cartridge in as late as 2009.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9.3%C3%9764mm_Brenneke

Cheers.

[TC]

Thanks Vikram,
I stand corrected. I read about the 9.3 X 64 round being used in Russian sniper rifles but did not care to find out when it was developed or whether it was influenced by the old Brenneke round. So when XL said it was Russian I remembered that article (most probably a test report on hunting ammo published in Guns and Ammo a couple of years ago). There was a chart too which showed the Russian ammo delivering maximum muzzle energy.



TC

[Grumpy]

"There was a chart too which showed the Russian ammo delivering maximum muzzle energy."
Eh ? What ? Maximum muzzle energy compared to what ?
It`s interesting how the 9.3x64 didn`t become anything like as popular in Southern Africa as it`s close relative, the 9.3x62. If it had then the minimum calibre for dangerous, thick-skinned game in much of Southern Africa might be .366" ..... as it is, with the .375" minimum calibre requirement the 9.3x64 is not legal. Why things become popular is sometimes a mystery - The .375 H&H was only introduced some 15 years earlier - less in real terms as WWI intervened - yet it became really popular and the 9.3x64 didn`t. It`s also interesting that the 9.3x62 ( and it`s rimmed equivalent, the 9.3x74R ) has enjoyed a resurgence of interest in recent years but not the 9.3x64. The 9.3x70 was never popular and has received very little interest apart from occasional discussion. That`s reckoned to be a real thumper.
The Mauser 66 is a fine rifle ..... decidedly individual looking but you get used to it. The short-stroke system was designed by Walter Gehmann and sold to Mauser in 1963. Walter Gehmann died a year ago.

[TC]

Grumpy,
The entire article was on the 9.3 cal. Fished it out so that every member can enjoy.

http://archives.gunsandammo.com/content ... ous-metric

A Most Marvelous Metric
The 9.3mm holds the light heavyweight crown among European bore sizes and should be more popular stateside than it is.
By Craig Boddington Posted: 2002-

It was a lot like television. I was sitting in a nice, warm cabin, one eye glued to the eyepiece of a big Leica spotting scope. On the screen—rather, in the field of view—was a small group of bull elk on a distant ridge. Behind the elk, on a slightly more distant ridge, were Chub Eastman and Phil Valdez, both shifting to get into position and obviously unable to see the elk I was looking at. This went on for quite some time while I tried to send telepathic signals and, outside the cabin, Mike Ballew tried the same with hand signals.

Finally, the stalemate broke, and so did the elk, running down into the timber and out of sight of everyone. I looked up from the scope and said to Mike, "That's the end of that." Then I looked again. It wasn't quite over. A bull I had never seen came up out of dead ground and trotted up the spine of the ridge, a bit more than 100 yards from Chub and Phil. The bull stopped, trotted again, stopped again and then went down into the brush as if a giant hand had swept it off its feet. Now it was really over, and so was our bet.

A 9 For New Mexico
We were hunting on the NRA Whittington Center, and a couple of days earlier I'd gotten lucky and flattened a bull with a little .270. Chub was carrying a cannon on this hunt, so, jokingly, I told him that if his elk went more than three steps after he shot it, it didn't matter whether his bull was bigger than mine. But I should've known better than to bet against the marketing director for Nosler Bullets, who is also a former Marine sniper (and still a wonderful rifleman). But Chub cheated. I thought we'd agreed that neck and spine shots wouldn't count, and his shot was, well, a little closer to a spine shot than a shoulder shot. Still, it was a wonderful offhand shot and an extremely impressive piece of cartridge-and-bullet performance (and that bull was bigger than mine).

The knockdown wasn't a surprise. The cartridge Chub was using was the 9.3x64mm Brenneke, one of the few cartridges in existence that offers serious competition to the .375 H&H as a world-standard all-around hunting cartridge. Its problem is that few people in America know anything about it. We also don't know anything about the caliber, or the several other excellent 9.3mms, but Europeans have relied on them for nearly a century.

It's actually inappropriate to say that the 9.3mm, caliber .366, was continental Europe's answer to the British .375 caliber because just the reverse is actually true. At the turn of the century, Europe's leading gunmakers started necking early Mauser and Mannlicher-Schoenauer military cartridges to accept heavier bullets of larger calibers. There were a number of cartridges in 9mm (.357), 9.3mm (.366) and 9.5mm (.375), and they fit nicely into the new and wonderfully inexpensive European bolt actions.

Their popularity scared the British gun trade, and in 1905 Holland & Holland introduced the .400/.375, the first belted cartridge. Underpowered and underwhelming, it had little impact on the growing popularity of 9.3mms, so in 1912 H&H tried again with the .375 H&H as we know it today.

Things might have been different had World War I not occurred, or had it ended differently. Today the English-speaking world considers the .375 H&H the world's most versatile cartridge, but Europeans aren't so sure. Most of the sporting cartridges between 9mm and 9.5mm have faded into history, but there are three 9mms that retain a significant following. They are the 9.3x74R, the 9.3x62 Mauser and the 9.3x64 Brenneke. These three are different in design and power levels, but each is interesting and useful. With more and more American bulletmakers now offering .366-inch bullets, this European "Big Three" deserves a closer look.

The 9.3x74R
The 9.3x74R is a rimmed cartridge designed for double rifles and single shots. Dating back to the turn of the century, it has a long (2.93-inch), slender, tapered case that, in appearance, can only be described as "cool." Unfortunately, it's one of the more misunderstood among sporting cartridges.

Although popular as a chambering for single shots (and as the rifle barrel in combination guns), it is most often seen in doubles. Because it is a very slender cartridge, it can be housed in much slimmer actions than those required by the big Nitro Express rounds. Doubles in 9.3x74R are fairly common and are generally much less expensive than doubles chambered to the bigbores.

A 9.3x74R double is often thought of as the poor man's option for a big double, and the cartridge is often described as "just a bit less powerful than the .375." This is hogwash. The heavy bullets for the 9.3-286 and 293 grains' are long and heavy for caliber. Their sectional density exceeds that of the 300-grain .375 (S.D. of the 286-grain 9.3 is .307, against .305 for the 300-grain .375). This means they penetrate extremely well and, all things being equal, will outpenetrate the 300-grain .375 (a slightly better S.D. plus less diameter and less friction).

9.3 Cartridge Comparison
CARTRIDGE BULLET LOAD MUZZLE VELOCITY (fps) MUZZLE ENERGY (ft-lbs)
9.3x74R 232 SP Norma Factory 2,630 3,535
9.3x74R 258 SP RWS Factory 2,460 3,465
9.3x74R 285 SP RWS Factory 2,280 3,290
9.3x74R 286 SP Norma Factory 2,360 3,530
9.3x74R 250 NBT 60-gr. H380 2,400 3,198
9.3x74R 286 NP 55-gr. IMR 4064 2,300 3,360
9.3x62 Mauser 232 SP Norma Factory 2,624 3,548
9.3x62 Mauser 256 SP RWS Factory 2,560 3,726
9.3x62 Mauser 286 SP Norma Factory 2,360 3,530
9.3x62 Mauser 293 SP RWS Factory 2,430 3,842
9.3x62 Mauser 250 NBT 63-gr. IMR 4350 2,606 3,754
9.3x62 Mauser 286 NP 59-gr. RL15 2,500 3,970
9.3x64 Brenneke 247 SP RWS Factory 2,760 4,178
9.3x64 Brenneke 285 SP RWS Factory 2,690 4,580
9.3x64 Brenneke 293 SP RWS Factory 2,570 4,298
9.3x64 Brenneke 250 NBT 67-gr. RL15 2,800 4,351
9.3x64 Brenneke 286 NP 76-gr. IMR 4350 2,690 4,585
(SP=Factory-supplied expanding bullet; NBT=Nosler Ballistic Tip; NP=Nosler Partition. Handloads shown approach maximum and may not be suitable in older rifles; drop 5 percent and work up in half-grain increments, checking for pressure signs. Actual velocities will vary with individual rifles)

Except all things are not equal. Depending on whose load you use, the 9.3x74R is at least 200 fps (and as much as 300 fps) slower than the .375, delivering about 1,000 ft-lbs less energy. This becomes more significant if you accept that the .375 H&H has long been considered the sensible minimum for the largest game. The 9.3x74R has been used successfully on the full range of African game up to elephant, but so have many lesser cartridges. It is not "almost the equal" of the .375 and should not be considered a suitable substitute for Cape buffalo and such. It isn't nearly as versatile as the .375 because its low velocity gives it a very arcing trajectory. So, if you see a 9.3x74R double rifle available at a good price, don't look at it as the "African double rifle" you've always wanted but couldn't afford. That's the bad news.

In British terms, the 9.3x62 is similar to the once-popular .350 Rigby Rimless Magnum, with the strong advantage of heavier bullets. In American terms, it's similar to the .35 Whelen—with the same advantage of heavier bullets. With good bullets you could use the .35 Whelen for Cape buffalo and such, and old-timers certainly used the .350 Rigby. For heavier game, 9.3mm bullets of 285 grains and upward are certainly better than either, but there are reasons why most African countries that have caliber restrictions for dangerous game establish the minimum at .375 H&H. So, despite its historical use, I don't consider the 9.3x62 sensible for the largest African game. But I like the cartridge very much. This follows naturally. I like the .35 Whelen, and I like heavy bullets, but I don't like unnecessary recoil any more than anybody else. The 9.3x62 is a rare bird over here, but brass and dies are available and there is plenty of 9.3mm bullets.

Hog Hammer Supreme
Last year I carried a left-hand Tikka in 9.3x62mm on a moose hunt in Finland. I never got a shot, but I used the rifle for the "running moose" shooting test required to obtain a license and fell in love with both the rifle and the cartridge.

So now I have a left-hand Tikka in 9.3x62. This one is extremely accurate. I've shot it with both 250-grain Nosler Ballistic Tips and 286-grain Nosler Partitions, but I must confess preference for the latter; you don't get a 9.3x62 because you want velocity. There are plenty of fast cartridges out there. Rather, I wanted the punch of that wonderfully heavy bullet without paying a huge price in recoil. This means the range is somewhat limited, but that's OK. I have plenty of rifles that are better for longer shooting in open country. What I had in mind was the same sort of thing I love the .35s for: hogs and black bear.

Unfortunately, I had to go do my part in this little war on terrorism, so that rifle (along with all the rest) is about 12,000 miles away right now, and it will be some months before I do any more recreational hunting or shooting. But I did get a chance to whack a nice pig with it before I left. I went out with my buddy Kyler Hamann on a rainy March day in the hills along California's Central Coast. Previous rains had brought new green and the pigs were scattered, but we found a group working its way along a chaparral hillside and made a stalk.

At about 125 yards, I took a rest over a tree limb, and when a nice boar stopped broadside, I shot him centrally on the shoulder. The result was exactly what you should expect from a 286-grain Partition; the pig was driven into the hillside, recovered slightly and tumbled downhill, coming to a rest in less than 20 yards.

The 9.3x64 Brenneke
The big boy of 9.3s was designed by German firearms genius Wilhelm Brenneke in about 1910. The 9.3x64 is still as modern as tomorrow. It's a true unbelted magnum; its rimless case has a base diameter of .504 (.034 of an inch thicker than the 7x57 family) with a rim slightly rebated to .492 of an inch. There is very little body taper, and the shoulder is fairly sharp, especially considering when it was designed. Case length is 2.52 inches, about the same as several of our .30-06-length belted mags. Technically, it will thus fit into a standard-length action, but overall length with the heavy bullets pushes (and in some actions exceeds) the limit.

The 9.3x64 Brenneke is not "better" than the .375 H&H, although its fans can certainly argue the point. It has slightly less bullet diameter, but its heavy projectiles have better sectional density. It will at least approach and (depending on who is doing the loading) can exceed .375 H&H velocities with bullets of similar weight. Since velocity is about the same as the .375, energy figures are also similar. The 9.3 does not offer the breadth of bullet selection of the .375 bore, but excellent 9.3 hunting projectiles are available. So it is no stretch to describe the 9.3x64 Brenneke as "the equal of the .375 H&H." And this is hardly damning with faint praise. The 9.3x64 will shoot at least as flat, hit at least as hard and can be used on exactly the same range of game (which means almost everything in the world). It has the advantage of the unbelted case design of so many of our hot new magnums. That isn't really a dramatic advantage, but it is more efficient, potentially more accurate and results in more compact ammunition.

Does that mean I'm ready to give up my beloved .375s and go to a 9.3x64? No, it doesn't, and although Chub Eastman is justifiably enamored of his 9.3x64, I doubt he's unloading all his .375s either. But so many writers (including me) have said for so long that the .375s (.375 H&H and faster) are the only sensible candidates for worldwide all-around rifles that it is taken as an article of faith. And if you consider ammo availability as a criteria, it remains true. But in strictest terms, it is not true and never was. The other cartridge equally deserving of the title is the 9.3x64 Brenneke. The 9.3x74R and the 9.3x62 Mauser are very useful cartridges, but the 9.3x64 is truly an alternative to the great .375 Holland & Holland.

The good news is that you shouldn't necessarily walk away from such a rifle, provided you understand what it's really all about. The 9.3x74R is a hard-hitting and effective cartridge, useful for fairly large game at close range. Recoil is moderate, and while the 9.3x74R is extremely marginal for the very largest game, the only thing that handicaps its versatility on medium game is its practical range limitation.

The Europeans love it for hunting driven wild boar, where it is truly ideal because the shooting is close. The 9.3x74R hits extremely hard, yet recoil is mild enough that a double so chambered is extremely fast for the second shot. I doubt we'll start a big run on 9.3x74R doubles, but it would be equally perfect for pig hunting, black bears over bait or with dogs, and even whitetail, elk and moose in close cover.

The 9.3x62 Mauser
The majority of the Mauser cartridges (including the occasionally seen 9x57 Mauser and the long-forgotten 9.3x57 Mauser) were based on the original 7x57 Mauser case necked up (as was the 8mm Mauser adopted by the German military).

The Model 98 Mauser action can actually handle a bit more cartridge length than a 57mm case, and with larger calibers, the 57mm case runs out of powder capacity, so velocities are low. Enter the 9.3x62mm Mauser. Designed in Berlin in 1905, the official specifications for the 9.3x62 case differ by a couple thousandths of an inch here and there from the .30-06 case, but the similarities are so strong as to make one suspicious. The 9.3x62 uses a slightly shorter case than the .30-06 (2.42 inches vs. 2.49) but achieves slightly greater powder capacity by virtue of a shorter neck and a bit less body taper.

With its ability to use the heaviest 9.3mm bullets—and its availability in inexpensive early bolt actions—it was widely used in Africa, and not only in the German colonies. It still has a tremendous reputation among old-timers and those of younger generations who remember it as the cartridge their fathers and grandfathers used. This reputation is well-deserved. Like all the 9.3s, the 9.3x62 had the advantage of heavy-for-caliber bullets, and its German-designed TIG and TUG bullets (still loaded today) were definitely superior to the simple softpoints then loaded by British and American firms.

However, keep in mind that, like their counterparts everywhere, the early African hunters and settlers used what they had. Few could afford the British bigbores and, in any case, they needed more versatility. For large game the 9.3x62 is clearly superior to the 6.5s, 7mms and .303s that some early hunters favored, but it's not a powerhouse. Depending on whose loads you use, it ranges from slightly to substantially superior to the 9.3x74R, so it has a bit more versatility. But it still isn't the equal of the .375 H&H.





TC

[Grumpy]

Quite an interesting article. The writer has got confused about the date that Brenneke designed and made the 9.3x64 available however as that was 1927, not `in about 1910`.
"The 9.3x64 is still as modern as tomorrow. There is very little body taper, and the shoulder is fairly sharp, especially considering when it was designed."
`As modern as tomorrow` but subject to a `fairly sharp` shoulder and `considering when it was designed`. You only have to look at a 9.3x64 to realise that it isn`t a modern cartridge. Modern in 1927 but looking decidedly dated nowadays.

None of that detracts from the cartridge`s actual ability. If it was designed tomorrow ( or yesterday ) it would look decidedly different however .... and the same applies to the .375 H&H.