Any guess guyz ?

[danish21]

Lets see who guess it right....



Danish

[eljefe]

FN P-90 in 5.7mm.

[danish21]

You are right doc. .... it is FN P-90 in 5.7mm.

Caliber: 5.7x28mm SS190
Weight: 2.54 kg empty; 3 kg loaded with magazine with 50 rounds
Length: 500 mm
Barrel length: 263 mm
Rate of fire: 900 rounds per minute
Magazine capacity: 50 rounds
Effective range: 200 meters


FN P90 personal defense weapon / submachine gun in basic configuration, left side


FN P90 personal defense weapon / submachine gun in basic configuration, right side


FN P90 TR (triple rail version) personal defense weapon / submachine gun, with installed accessories including optical sight on top rail, flashlight on left rail, and silencer on the barrel


FN PS90 - a civilian semi-automatic only version of P90 with long barrel


Bottom view on the filed FN P90 magazine, showing position of the stored cartridges and cartridge in feed position


FN P90 partially disassembled

[eljefe]

interesting feed mechanism...

[Risala]

It looks like the Bullpup design,based on the Famas where the mag is behind the action.
Sanjay

[eljefe]

Sanjay,
Introduced by FN in early 1990's
about 900rpm is rate of fire
blowback operation cartridges go thru a 90 dgree rotation to feed! quite a change from the box fed mags of lmg and sten/carbine etc?

[Mark]

Sorry but it reminds me too much of this:

[eljefe]

PS-sorry for the speed read, came back from sleep to clear this-It is NOT a bull pup!
The magazine lies on top, parallel to the body, thats what the 90 degree rotation of the cartridge is all about!


That reddish tinged box in the pic above? fixed above the thumbhole, and the spare box below the rifle? those are the mags
No complaints so far about feeding probs.Word has it that it is in use, and /or eval by Indian Army too.Dont know if it is a contender for the IMI bull pup series shoot off.

[Grumpy]

"No complaints so far about feeding probs.Word has it that it is in use, and /or eval by Indian Army too.Dont know if it is a contender for the IMI bull pup series shoot off."

I doubt it - apart from being expensive and having logistical problems in that its ammunition is non-standard - the P90 suffers from the fact that at its inception over 20 years ago ( and in its current form since 1989/90 ) it was designed as a personal defence weapon with a decidedly limited appeal hence the total sales have been very poor - c 20,000 units. Bizarrely the majority have been supplied to various special forces units as an offensive weapon - in which role it has distinct limitations....which has been the opinion of all the major powers who have examined it.
Ammunition feed is not a problem.........But then, FN have been building firearms for a long time. Would anyone care to bet how well a licenced version might work ?

[Sakobav]

danish

Nice find I might have reported this a while back and per another forum is being used by NSG body guards.

Check on Bharat Rakshak forum of this sighting

Cheers

[mundaire]

If I may say so, a really ugly piece of equipment! Looks like something straight out of a Salvador Dali painting!!

What's the ballistic performance of the 5.7x28mm cartridge like? Any better than the standard 5.56x45 NATO? Would a comparison with pistol calibres like the 9mm para be more appropriate?

I think we did have a previous discussion here on a handgun (again by FN) chambered for this round...

Cheers!
Abhijeet

[danish21]

The FN P90 submachine gun (SMG) was developed in the late 1980s as a personal defense weapon for the troops whose primary activities does not include small arms, such as vehicle and tank crew members, artillery crews etc. Standard pistols and submachine guns chambered for pistol rounds were proved ineffective against enemy soldiers, wearing body armor; Therefore FN designers first developed a new round with enhanced penetration, initially known as SS90. To achieve necessary high penetration while keeping recoil impulse low, FN used a small-bore approach, creating a round that looked much like the scaled down 5,56NATO round. It must be noted that similar concepts were tried in other countries, most notably in USA, several decades before FN; for example, US Army tested M1 carbines chambered for .221 Johnson Spitfire round back in late 1950s; later on, Colt produced its .22 SCAMP and 5,6x30 MARS ammunition for special SCAMP machine pistol and MARS "mini assault rifle" (a scaled-down M16 rifle) respectively. It must be noted that 5,6x30 MARS round was in a sense a direct predecessor to 5,7x28 FN SS90 round, although the latter featured slightly lighter and faster bullet. By late 1980s a concept of a small-bore, low-impulse "personal defense weapon" (PDW) with good accuracy and lethality at ranges of up to 200-250 meters was well established, although there were no weapons adopted for service yet.
http://world.guns.ru/smg/smg13-e.htm

Danish

[eljefe]

Looks like our NSG got it with the right intention-PDW. Not a hi fundoo , slicked up special force weapon.
Our SF guys must be gnashing their teeth at the weaponry thats attributed to them, while they still manage a lot of their job profile with the standard, mark 1 service equipment
Hang in there, you will prevail!
Grumpy-'Licence made' has its own connotations as far as quality is concerned and you're right to be concerned!

Abhijeet:


Several papers have described the incredibly poor terminal performance of projectiles fired by the FN P90.

--Dahlstrom D, Powley K, and Gordon C: “Wound Profile of the FN Cartridge (SS 190) Fired from the FN P90 Submachine Gun". Wound Ballistic Review. 4(3):21-26; Spring 2000.

--Fackler M: "Errors & Omissions", Wound Ballistic Review. 1(1):46; Winter 1991.

--Fackler M: "More on the Bizarre Fabrique National P-90", Wound Ballistic Review. 3(1):44-45; 1997.

--FBI Academy Firearms Training Unit. FBI Handgun Ammunition Tests 1989-1995. Quantico, U.S. Department of Justice--Federal Bureau of Investigation.

--Hayes C: “Personal Defense Weapons—Answer in Search of a Question”, Wound Ballistic Review. 5(1):30-36; Spring 2001.

--Roberts G: “Preliminary Evaluation of the Terminal Performance of the 5.7 x 28 mm 23 Grain FMJ Bullet Fired by the New FN P-90 , Using 10% Ordnance Gelatin as a Tissue Simulant”, AFTE Journal. 30(2):326-329, Spring 1998.

--Roberts G: “Terminal Performance of the 5.7 x 28 mm 31 Grain SS-190 FMJ Bullet Fired by the FN P-90 in 10% Ordnance Gelatin.”, AFTE Journal. In Press.

The early 5.7 x 28 mm 23 gr FMJ bullet fired by the FN P-90 had insufficient penetration for law enforcement and military use. The current 31 gr SS-190 FMJ bullet has nearly adequate penetration, but the wound resulting from this projectile has a relatively small permanent crush cavity, as well as an insignificant temporary stretch cavity. Although the 5.7 x 28 mm penetrates soft body armor, wounding potential is at best like a .22 LR or .22 Magnum. Even 9mm NATO FMJ makes a larger wound--and we are all aware of the awe inspiring incapacitation potential of M882 ball from the M9......

Numerous other projectiles commonly used for law enforcement and military special operations applications, such as a good 9mm, .40 S&W, or .45 ACP JHP, the better 5.56 x 45 mm BTHP/JSP loads, as well as 12 gauge shotgun slugs and 00 buckshot, all provide better penetration, crush more tissue, and have far greater potential to reliably physiologically incapacitate an aggressor than the 5.7 x 28 mm 31 gr SS-190 FMJ bullet fired by the FN P-90. Law enforcement agencies and military special operations units are strongly urged to avoid adoption of this weapon system.

... Tacticalforums.com

[mehulkamdar]

Asif,

You're right on the dot about poor stopping with the P 90. When FN launched it's semi auto version in the US and the accompanying pistol version with a 20 round magazine, their sales talk said that they would sell it only to law enforcement agencies and not to the public. Several police departments tested and found it to be crap. Yes, a small calibre high velocity round does give good penetration but other than that it was found to be very ineffective as a "stopper." AFAIR all of ther est of the stock that FN imported here were sold off at a huge discount to CDNN Investments. I also remember gun shops in Milwaukee offering huge discounts on the 5.7 ammunition.

Cheers!

[Grumpy]

Absolutely right - the P-90 ammo has pathetic performance. Even in the long barrel semi-auto versions that were offered in the US. As I said, it`s adoption by certain special forces units is bizarre.

Danish. When copying material you must credit the source/authors as otherwise you lay this website open to prosecution for breach of copyright. You must either credit the material you have posted above ( "The FN P90 submachine gun (SMG) was developed in the late 1980s as a personal defense weapon for the troops" etc ) which is cribbed directly from another website or remove it.