Lever Action or Double Rifle?

[winnie_the_pooh]

If i recall, you had some good things to say about the .357 mag, when compared to other calibers...?

I did? Was not very impressed with it.Not the 'hammer of thor' on anything on two legs it is made out to be.

[Grumpy]

Me ? I love the .357 mag and have had a load of `em ....... back in the days when we were actually allowed to own handguns.
Read what I said : `With the right bullet the .357 Mag is a fine defensive calibre` ......
The problems come when using an unsuitable bullet.
The .41 Mag is a good calibre in a defensive role ..... very effective. The .44 Mag is probably rather too much for most people to deal with. Can`t say I ever had any problems with the .44 Mag but I used to do an awful lot of handgun shooting. I still have a rifle chambered for the .44 Mag ......and some cartridges loaded hot and with 300 gr bullets. ME is about 1730 ft lbs but the recoil it produces it ridiculously high considering the energy .......

[Grumpy]

The .357 Mag is definitely NOT `The hammer of Thor` ..... and compared to the .44 Mag it`s a pussycat.

[winnie_the_pooh]

Never got a chance to even see a .44 mag revolver, let alone shoot one.I shudder to think what the price of a .44 mag revolver would be in India.

[Grumpy]

It`s my regret that I`ve never shot a S&W `X` frame in .460 or .500 mag as they were developed years after the pistol ban.
I saw one in the US in 2006 and was amazed at just how big it was - the heaviest version weighs 82 oz - 2.32kg !
The .500 mag is something else entirely compared to any previous factory chamberings - over 3,000 ft lbs from a handgun !!!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.500_S%26W_Magnum

[Skyman]

I meant WTP, but there was talk of the .357 mag being the upper limit of the recoil you can handle in a SD situation.A .44 mag has twice the recoil of the .357 mag i hear.

[TwoRivers]

Since we have strayed all over this topic, let me reiterate. In a home defense situation, I'd pick the .22 Hornet for several reasons. The bullet is constructed to expand violently on something the size of a rabbit or a bit larger. It is unlikely to penetrate a human body, but will certainly break human long bones, and make a nasty and very painful wound. Without the danger of wounding others behind your target. Out at 200 yards or better, deliberate shots, it's still accurate and effective.

Footpounds of energy do not translate into lethality, the hit and bullet performance do. If they did, why are there so many people trying to come up with another formula, for "killing power", knockdown (?) power, or whatever?.

For and all-around rifle, suitable for everything when you can only have one (perish the thought), I'd try to get my hands on the 7x57 or similar before Grumpy snags it. And once more, the .315 IOF Lee-Enfield will do as well as any in this situation, provided you load the magazine correctly. Cheers.

[Skyman]

WTP, what about the .357mag was unimpressive? Was it the recoil or the bullet performance in a SD situation?

[xl_target]

I meant WTP, but there was talk of the .357 mag being the upper limit of the recoil you can handle in a SD situation.A .44 mag has twice the recoil of the .357 mag i hear

Where do people come up with this crap. See Skyman, this is why you don't believe everything you read on the internet.
What do you mean by "upper limit for SD"? Are you saying that if it has more recoil than a .357 Mag, you can't use it to defend yourself? The .357 mag really doesn't have that much recoil in most normal pistols like a 4" or a 6" revolver or even in a Coonan automatic. The heavier the gun, the less the recoil. "Twice the recoil" in what gun? It's when you try to use that Scandium snub-nose Smith as a range gun that it starts to get painful. My daughter who is not very big; about 5ft 2" and 100lbs, has no problems with the .357 Mag. In fact the Coonan .357 Mag pistol is one of her favorite guns. She even shot the above mentioned Scandium snubby in .357; she didn't like it but there were no control issues. She also shoots .44 Mag with no issues. If a little girl like her can shoot either of those two calibers without blinking, why can't a grown man?

Recoil might be one of the reasons why some wouldn't choose a .357 Mag as their home defense pistol but it would vary from person to person. As Winnie says, it isn't the "Hammer of Thor" by any means. There are many cartridges that are more powerful than it. I know one guy who shoots 7.62 X 39 in a TC pistol and even that isn't so bad, recoilwise.

[winnie_the_pooh]

Skyman,

.357 mag does not have an unmanageable recoil.Infact it is very mild if you shoot .38spl cartridges in it.

[timmy]

Skyman, are you talking about what you read, or what your own shooting experiences are? Have you shot a 357? Have you shot a 44 Mag or other handgun of similar power?

When you talk to XL in these exchanges, and others like him, you are not talking to people who are repeating what they read. You are talking to people who have done that. They are telling you what they know, and you are arguing with them. Do you know how you sound when you do this?

Without trying to be confrontational, I'm suggesting you really listen to what these guys are telling you. It is a curious thing about the way we are made, that we have two ears, but only one mouth.

[shooter50]

Lever Action or a Double Rifle as weapon of Home Defense In India ??? What are you threatened by ?? Herds of rampaging Buffalo or Elephants ? or maybe the Mujaheddin or possibly gangs of Dacoits if you are in the Chambal valley ?? If you want a weapon of home defense in this country you are best off with a 26inch 12 bore shot gun. A shorter barrel would be preferable but you don't get them so easily here and the legal minimum is 18 inches. A less effective choice would be the 32 IOF revolver or a pistol, imported ones are better, but are heavily overpriced.
All the best

[Skyman]

You must note, recoil is a subjective matter.When we talk about the recoil of a .357 mag, it really depends who is using it.Seasoned men like XL might not have a problem with it.There are many who do.Does that mean XL is a freak who can handle immense recoil, or those who find it difficult to handle it are weaklings? To each his own.

http://www.ballistics101.com/357_magnum.php

http://www.ballistics101.com/44_magnum.php

357 Magnum SJHP 180 524 1145

44 Magnum SJHP 180 1036 1610

Look at remmington's data for the same bullet weight.Doesn't the .44 mag have nearly twice the ME and by F=ma,nearly twice the recoil if all other things are equal? Measured recoil and felt recoil are two different things.There are variables like gun weight, barrel length etc but you can see i don't make up stuff.

WRT SD, one of the essential factors is follow up shots.The .357 mag is said to be a little more difficult to get follow ups out of than say a 9mm.This was said by people who have fired both.Therefore, just as i believe it is rather foolish to carry around a .44 mag for home defense, a .357 mag is the on the line between being usable and un-usable.I speak exclusively about the .357 mag.I never said a .45 ACP can't be used for SD.

If a little girl like her can shoot either of those two calibers without blinking, why can't a grown man?

Size is never an issue.Your daughter has been trained well.There are many " Grown " men who can't handle a .44 mag.Does that mean some one smaller than them, who can handle a .44 mag, is stronger?

Some guitarists find a Les Paul heavy.I don't.Does that mean they are weak?

They are telling you what they know, and you are arguing with them. Do you know how you sound when you do this?

I believe i have never argued with XL here.I agree with him when he says he does not find the .357 mag's recoil to be too much.Mack mentioned the same thing, though he had shot a double rifle.The day i shoot one, i can decide how i find the recoil.Till then, what i know is - Trained people do not find the .357 mag's recoil too much.

WTP, sure the .38 spl is mild when compared to a .357 mag proper.Compared to the .22's and .32's people have, a .357 mag does make quite a bang.

I do apologize if i appeared confrontational and argumentative.

[Grumpy]

Depends on how old the Les Paul is ......
Most of the Standards and Studios have such extensive weight relief that they`re almost semis nowadays. The `traditional` weight relief ( a series of holes in the top bout under your forearm ..... and not very `traditional` ) has less mahogany removed. A non-weight relieved Les Paul usually falls in the 9.5 - 10.5 lb range. The modern weight relief means that they can weigh around 6.5lbs. I`ve got a naff back but a 10lb Les Paul is no problem with a wide strap.
It`s pretty pointless mentioning .38 Sp recoil when talking about a .357 mag - recoil from the 38 Sp in a `K` or `N` frame is minimal ...... In a lightweight 10oz snubby .38 Sp recoil can be decidedly sharp.

[winnie_the_pooh]

It`s pretty pointless mentioning .38 Sp recoil when talking about a .357 mag

Mentioned that to point out to Skyman that if he gets a .357 mag revolver and is scared of the recoil he could always shoot .38 spl in it...and if he gets a .44 mag and the recoil terrifies him, he could shoot .44 spl in it.

Small light handguns can be unpleasant to shoot in even a pip squeak calibre like a .32ACP