Indian Air Rifle/Air Gun Comparison - Series 1

[joywarrior]

What I write here may sound like sacrilege to many enthusiasts, but I have done what might be "unthinkable" in India (where I live) although I would not have given it a second thought `if I had been living abroad. More than 20 years ago I bought a Weihrauch HW 35 (0.22) in the UK. It was the love of my life and I carted it around everywhere and brought it with me along with transfer of residence to India paying 100% duty.............................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................

Just my thoughts.

A well surmised and presented articulation of experience and 'personal' thought. .

[joywarrior]

My "current" Air Rifle/Gun Experiences.

I am going through the throws of what some of us here have to go through when we go for the Indian "economical*" range Air Rifles. Specially when we have no clue about the "tuning" techniques and what not. If some one starts off in life with a Weihrauch or RWS or for that matter even a Crossman or Remington(I did) , the point of comparisons and discussions and deliberations on these so called 'economical*' options becomes moot .

"On what other people say"

The enthusiasm is much flogged by discourse based on the purpose of the Air Rifle owner. I feel at some level if we all were not focused at a certain time/age, destined, trained, initiated to the traditions of this great sport, the motive of our efforts should not be judged on the intended results. Only actions must be measured. In short - I like to apply the principle of 'do what you love'. Do not try to force a interest then it becomes a passing fad rather than a 'hobby'. As in the case of 'hobbies' there are no defined destinations generally, only paths. To 'journey' is the 'goal' . So a start up Air rifle may not be perfect but it will teach you a lot of basics that you will find handy specially if there are no coaches and guides. My SDB 150 was one such case.

"Messages in a bottle"

At a much more intrinsic level 'measuring' the amount of interest someone holds to what is and may be technically a "hobby" or for that matter a "passing fad",is an extensity people with marked insipience could refrain from assessing and judging, unless at the cost of sounding didactic, appearing uneducated and sometimes much worse. Not that they can't..by all means if commenting on other people's personal ambivalences proves to be a prolific advantage to your life's course, even in any minuscule way,then by all means -feel free to do what you think,(within the permits of law,accepted social boundaries of ethics,etc. etc. I must say). Other than that its a crap shoot.

My Message to all First time enthusiasts

So do what you love and feel. Take that Air Rifle/Air Pistol out and shoot with your spirit. Make every moment count. Live it like there's no tomorrow whenever you can & wherever you can. The rest(improvements) will follow. Do not get trapped in the dichotomic aberrations of choices. One brand or the other , Indian /Imported, National or Local. There will be others who will tell you to be cautious and measured. Be that and ' these others' will inflict rust on your enthusiasm. This is how hobby becomes a passing phase. (I was lucky to be protected by my peers and peer heads, some on this forum some elsewhere).Try not to misread the lines in to believing the unintended is mindless. It is not. Do not confuse unfettered enthusiasm with the non-application of mind or not being intelligent when choosing your air gun/rifle/pistol. But do not let your actions, thoughts and interest be miss-guided by the universal concept of "time and tide end'eth all".

Oh ! and to some one saying air rifles and their not being a matter of everlasting possessions ....well at some point in time my friends ..everything ends !.

Happy Plinking/Target shooting,

A Very happy Holi (2013) to all.

Thanks for reading !
Regards
joywarrior.


* ( it's a polite way of describing most of the crap that gets sold here in India. Please don't mind my saying that,its just a personal opinion, and a very green-horned one at that.) .

[joywarrior]

With an exception or two, all Indian made air rifles are of very low quality, hence the low price.

Most air rifle shooters look for accuracy and build quality in the air rifles they intend to buy.

Case in point, The Precihole SX100 series, fulfills both the above requirement, don't let its "new kid on the block" status bother you.

It is obvious that quality does not come cheap so it will be worthwhile on your part to save money and go for a quality air rifle.
BTW none of the brands you mention can be termed as quality products. They are at best good, entry level products.

A good quality air rifle will be expensive but it will be last you for ever.

M.

I wrote about two types of Air rifles ...one I intend to possess in the near future like Benjamin, Crossman,Beeman,RWS etc....on the other list in a paragrah somewhere below I mentioned the air rifles I tested or saw or checked basically the Indian brands (mostly kolkata made) .

Kindly elaborate when you say 'at best entry level' you were referring to the International brands mentioned above or the Indian ones. It would be very hard to declare say for example a Benjamin Maruader or a RWS Diana 35 / 66 /350 Magnum as an entry level Air Rifle, specially in the .22 range for an intended purpose or for that matter .177 for it's intended purpose. Unless you take the discussion to completely different range of Air rifles (referring to PCPs beyond a certain price,type, used specifically for Competitive Air Rifle venues like Nationals/Olympics etc.) Right now the discussion I intended to initiate was basically for only Casual Plinking and fun or at the most practising Targets.

Thank you

Regards
joywarrior


Thank you
Joywarrior.

[fantumfan2003]

My dear fellow, You just wasted your 2800 on a poor quality Indian air rifle and looking by the gyan you are giving, you will end up wasting a few thousand more on your first imported air rifle. I meant International brands. Except one brand, I will not even look at other Indian brands.

We do not live in a country where we can buy a new International brand of air rifle every Diwali or Christmas at their regular prices, so what we buy should hold good for us for at least a decade or two. I know people who use their rifles which they bought almost two decades ago. I have one which is older than me and is still going strong, so while some people may look for a new thing after sometime, I am afraid we do not have that luxury with air rifles in this country. But to each his own.

For casual plinking and target practice, go for this one in .177 (coz you will not be able to import a .22 air rifle)

http://www.pyramydair.com/s/m/Weihrauch ... Rifle/2018

All the best.

M.

I wrote about two types of Air rifles ...one I intend to possess in the near future like Benjamin, Crossman,Beeman,RWS etc....on the other list in a paragrah somewhere below I mentioned the air rifles I tested or saw or checked basically the Indian brands (mostly kolkata made) .

Kindly elaborate when you say 'at best entry level' you were referring to the International brands mentioned above or the Indian ones. It would be very hard to declare say for example a Benjamin Maruader or a RWS Diana 35 / 66 /350 Magnum as an entry level Air Rifle, specially in the .22 range for an intended purpose or for that matter .177 for it's intended purpose. Unless you take the discussion to completely different range of Air rifles (referring to PCPs beyond a certain price,type, used specifically for Competitive Air Rifle venues like Nationals/Olympics etc.) Right now the discussion I intended to initiate was basically for only Casual Plinking and fun or at the most practising Targets.

Thank you

Regards
joywarrior


Thank you
Joywarrior.

[joywarrior]

I wrote about two types of Air rifles ...one I intend to possess in the near future like Benjamin, Crossman,Beeman,RWS etc....on the other list in a paragrah somewhere below I mentioned the air rifles I tested or saw or checked basically the Indian brands (mostly kolkata made) .

Kindly elaborate when you say 'at best entry level' you were referring to the International brands mentioned above or the Indian ones. It would be very hard to declare say for example a Benjamin Maruader or a RWS Diana 35 / 66 /350 Magnum as an entry level Air Rifle, specially in the .22 range for an intended purpose or for that matter .177 for it's intended purpose. Unless you take the discussion to completely different range of Air rifles (referring to PCPs beyond a certain price,type, used specifically for Competitive Air Rifle venues like Nationals/Olympics etc.) Right now the discussion I intended to initiate was basically for only Casual Plinking and fun or at the most practising Targets.

Thank you


Thank you
Joywarrior.

My Dear Sir !

I think it would be wise for you to carry on your biased inter-locution with people who are otherwise minded, like for example bennedose on this topic. It would form perfect poles of a discussion or with many others on the forum. As far as the "gyan" is concerned, I am receiving it in plenty from people much higher in their aptitude for this sport, (along with encouragement) from people who understand what I am doing and intend doing, not merely from this forum . Unless of course one of us is an Olympian / national champ or similar in which case we are engaging in discourse completely out of each other's league, and as such I would rest my case there need be no further discourse.

If not everyone inclined to show/imply on this forum any kind of condescension using colloquially worded bigotry kindly read the above mentioned "gyan" on page 2 specifically designed for such people. It is also for newbies to be wary of people with similar disregard to experiences. If one happens to have some super - human ability who always buys/gets perfectly everything right from the word go - Air Rifle in this case, have done it so - always in life, with no learning curve, If such be the case then again one would be engaging with most of us who would be completely out of that persons league, and as such I would rest my case.

As for the following :

*Wasted Money - Let me and my peers be the judge of that.

*Importing my first rifle and wasting more money - I will fly with my own rifle (any time I am flying back), if need be or it would flown in for me by hand. Just as my Indian brand is being done right now from Ahemdabad...yes in this case its just an Indian air rifle. (But I'm sure a people with 'gyan' and acumen understand the intended meaning).

*As far as the choices are concerned it is better hoped people with much more experience should offer help / advice/ me on the same.

*.177 /.22 - I and I alone - will decide what I need and for what purpose - and of course there are many experts I can learn from or newbies I can opine to, apparently not some. No problem !

*Except one Brand - which one? International Weirauch? Indian - IHP National?

* Can't buy Air Rifles every Christmas and Diwali - Speak for your self.

*not Look at any other Indian brand - Kindly see the "title" of the post "Indian Air Rifles/ AirGun Comparison - Series 1" before one starts vainly commenting on brands or dwell-on in the comments and thoughts written on it.

I may be a starter as far as Air Rifle is concerned. But there are other kinds of equipments that I may have had experience with( Read my first post in case memory suffers, get the hint there).

We all should try not to goof up by forming a complete opinion on what we read about somebody on sites or for that matter their stories and comments. Its misleading to the point sometimes even resulting in causing mis-demeanour, if the posts are read with a complete intellectual bias. Suggest do not let comments invite the umbrage of anybody - novice / expert, like wise.

To you Sir (fantumfan2003)! I urge kindly opine on matters concerning Air - Rifles / Guns and the readings thereabout, technical, financial, procedural, personal experiences but refrain from personal & or personalised remarks to 'ME'. Although the same forum rules apply for all--- But like you said 'To each his own'. Other than that your colourful replies are most welcome.

A polite Request !


Regards and Special Thanks for your suggestion of the Weirauch 35.

Wishes
joywarrior.

[bennedose]

Regards and Special Thanks for your suggestion of the Weirauch 35.

You'e welcome mate. If I were to ever buy a Weihrauch again in my life (unlikely), I would probably go for a HW80. On the day I bought the HW35, the shopkeeper in the town of Norwich in England showed me a beautiful underlever HW77. It was one and a half times as expensive as the 35 and was beyond my budget. Actually the budget bit was an easy excuse - I had the money as a young bachelor those days but I was also young and naive. I knew little about air rifles. My own first air rifle was an Indian made underlever. It was a smooth barrel affair and hopelessly inaccurate. This had made me suspicious of underlever rifles - an indicator of how ignorant I must have been to "be suspicious" of a HW77 which is a rifle of high repute.

Having said that India has changed. The number of people shooting has risen and the variety of weapons and knowledgeable people has increased. I am certain we are going to see more and better Indian made weapons. Air rifles mean precision engineering and metallurgy/materials. The developed west have had that for over 60 years, In India it is appearing now. It is only a matter of time before a young Indian says "Damn - I am not going to pay an arm and a leg for an imported spring gun. I have the skills and knowledge - I will do it right here in India."

[fantumfan2003]

joywarrior

YOU asked for advice, I chipped in with some direct comments and advice which clearly has upset you. I am not being personal, you THINK I am being personal.
Next time you seek advice, be prepared to read or hear something that you may or may not like. Be open minded about it.
I do not claim to be an expert on airguns but I definitely know better about them than YOU.
As for the title of the thread, even the learned ones you approach will tell you it is an exercise in wastage of time and energy.
99.9% of Indian made air rifles and air pistols are junk metal and wood.
But then again, it is your money, waste it as you see fit. You allude to the one being with the golden spoon in the mouth, I thought you were'nt and I was speaking for the rule and not the exception.
From the thread you have started, and the quantity of english you have keyed in, It is quite clear that you are confused about this whole affair.
Air rifle shooting is a very simple affair, There is nothing complicated about it.

M.

My Dear Sir !

I think it would be wise for you to carry on your biased inter-locution with people who are otherwise minded, like for example bennedose on this topic. It would form perfect poles of a discussion or with many others on the forum. As far as the "gyan" is concerned, I am receiving it in plenty from people much higher in their aptitude for this sport, (along with encouragement) from people who understand what I am doing and intend doing, not merely from this forum . Unless of course one of us is an Olympian / national champ or similar in which case we are engaging in discourse completely out of each other's league, and as such I would rest my case there need be no further discourse.

If not everyone inclined to show/imply on this forum any kind of condescension using colloquially worded bigotry kindly read the above mentioned "gyan" on page 2 specifically designed for such people. It is also for newbies to be wary of people with similar disregard to experiences. If one happens to have some super - human ability who always buys/gets perfectly everything right from the word go - Air Rifle in this case, have done it so - always in life, with no learning curve, If such be the case then again one would be engaging with most of us who would be completely out of that persons league, and as such I would rest my case.

As for the following :

*Wasted Money - Let me and my peers be the judge of that.

*Importing my first rifle and wasting more money - I will fly with my own rifle (any time I am flying back), if need be or it would flown in for me by hand. Just as my Indian brand is being done right now from Ahemdabad...yes in this case its just an Indian air rifle. (But I'm sure a people with 'gyan' and acumen understand the intended meaning).

*As far as the choices are concerned it is better hoped people with much more experience should offer help / advice/ me on the same.

*.177 /.22 - I and I alone - will decide what I need and for what purpose - and of course there are many experts I can learn from or newbies I can opine to, apparently not some. No problem !

*Except one Brand - which one? International Weirauch? Indian - IHP National?

* Can't buy Air Rifles every Christmas and Diwali - Speak for your self.

*not Look at any other Indian brand - Kindly see the "title" of the post "Indian Air Rifles/ AirGun Comparison - Series 1" before one starts vainly commenting on brands or dwell-on in the comments and thoughts written on it.

I may be a starter as far as Air Rifle is concerned. But there are other kinds of equipments that I may have had experience with( Read my first post in case memory suffers, get the hint there).

We all should try not to goof up by forming a complete opinion on what we read about somebody on sites or for that matter their stories and comments. Its misleading to the point sometimes even resulting in causing mis-demeanour, if the posts are read with a complete intellectual bias. Suggest do not let comments invite the umbrage of anybody - novice / expert, like wise.

To you Sir (fantumfan2003)! I urge kindly opine on matters concerning Air - Rifles / Guns and the readings thereabout, technical, financial, procedural, personal experiences but refrain from personal & or personalised remarks to 'ME'. Although the same forum rules apply for all--- But like you said 'To each his own'. Other than that your colourful replies are most welcome.

A polite Request !


Regards and Special Thanks for your suggestion of the Weirauch 35.

Wishes
joywarrior.

[airgun_novice]

Dear Joy Warrior,

Had missed this thread somehow but now having gone through its entire length really wondered as to its purpose. No - I do not have any short term memory and can always glance up to see the topic but that's where the first problem arose - You say you have "checked but not fired" guns that you mentioned with some exception of weight in steel and wood. Not quite sure if this is how Air Gun Comparison is to be carried out. BTW, have you read through related posts on this forum ? Fair amount of gyaan exists on SDB/ Canon/ SX100s/ IHP/ etc.

Agree that not every piece out of SDB unit would be a piece of junk but then the one you have "150" why was it discontinued and yet gotten sold for Rs 2800 ? Now it's your money and therefore your right to splurge it the way you want but when you seek advice/ suggestions and also intend to share, then you have to realize that people might opine in manner contrary to your expectation - and accept that logical right. Should you just want to go "blah-blah" (as per what you said) then go ahead and write a blog without the feedback option. But use the forum only if you want a healthy discussion.

I had checked around 20-25 SDB/ other Kolkatta products and found enough faults in the pieces I checked - enough to walk away from those. I own an IHP and it turned out to be a lemon from the day it was purchased. SO should someone ask me my unprejudiced opinion of SDB - I would definitely ask to reconsider.

It's mighty good if you know "someone in Ahmedabad" and that someone is taking a personal interest in or even hand-making an AR for you. But it's from the same Ahmedabad that I got my lemon - broken stock, breech seal lost in first few days, piston seal lost a few weeks later, rear sight broke off due to vibrations, front sight popped off due to poor screw, main spring lost its - well, "spring" in a few months and was canted etc. etc. Of course I could have waited then but at the time India did not offer any ENTRY LEVEL quality springer like PH did later on. So I had to pump in more money just to bring it to par - the barrel of N25 was the only thing that was of some quality. When I had the option in 2012 to buy a good quality entry level AR that would give similar top foreign brands a healthy competition, I purchased one of those.

One does not need to be playing in Olympics or any "league" just to be a good shooter or enjoy the sport nor does one need to have a neighbor with a Remington to get more gyaan of the sport of shooting. What one wishes in terms of fps or usage of his AR is purely one's own choice - but only as long as it conforms to Indian laws. A good IHP with fps of 600 is a good target gun and so is the PH Club. Pegasus is slightly more powerful but still stays within the limits.

Understand one thing - when someone shoots with an AR (s)he needs to observe same set of safety rules as one would with firearms. "The AR is mine - so it's my wish - I can use it for whatever I want - etc. etc." - such arguments are simply not acceptable. SAFETY COMES FIRST FOLLOWED BY SOCIAL RESPONSIBILITY. So wish you here a safe and enjoyable shooting future.

In short, if you have invested in an SDB and started facing problems and need to push in more bucks to sort them out and not getting the accuracy desired in spite of all this, my personal opinion would go with FF2003 that your money is wasted. But then hey - it's your money, so waste it or invest it. Good Luck.

[brihacharan]

India has changed. The number of people shooting has risen and the variety of weapons and knowledgeable people has increased. I am certain we are going to see more and better Indian made weapons. Air rifles mean precision engineering and metallurgy/materials. The developed west have had that for over 60 years, In India it is appearing now. It is only a matter of time before a young Indian says "Damn - I am not going to pay an arm and a leg for an imported spring gun. I have the skills and knowledge - I will do it right here in India."

> Well Said
> Pl see my post "Orion Vs Samurai 3G - It says it all.
AGN!
Wow! That was some reading
We've learned it the hard way & it has benefited us
Briha

[joywarrior]

Dear Joy Warrior,

Had missed this thread somehow but now having gone through its entire length really wondered as to its purpose. No - I do not have any short term memory and can always glance up to see the topic but that's where the first problem arose - You say you have "checked but not fired" guns that you mentioned with some exception of weight in steel and wood. Not quite sure if this is how Air Gun Comparison is to be carried out. BTW, have you read through related posts on this forum ? Fair amount of gyaan exists on SDB/ Canon/ SX100s/ IHP/ etc.

...... Good Luck.

Thank you for your detailed deduction. I gather that you have done an extended research on the entire Post & according to your own admission, you have. Thanks for the time and energy you gave for the same. I do not know the purpose for such an endeavour but Thanks any-ways. Only this - I am there on SDB pages, I never advised "do anything you want with air rifle", only Precihole and DTE I did not fire or check the rest I did( that's why the bracket is only used after them), and I am aware of Air Rifle Comparison criteria.As far as the blog vs Forum issue goes...you don't like my posts well fair enough - STAY AWAY . The rest actually seems like you are resonating my sentiments . I could however take the same path and shoot back point by point but then I have neither the inclination nor the interest shown by you. So I'll stay away from that trap.

Thank you for your suggestions.
Happy Plinking / Target Shooting...
Regards and Wishes
joywarrior

[joywarrior]

Regards and Special Thanks for your suggestion of the Weirauch 35.

You'e welcome mate. If I were to ever buy a Weihrauch again in my life (unlikely), I would probably go for a HW80. On the day I bought the HW35, the shopkeeper in the town of Norwich in England showed me a beautiful underlever HW77. It was one and a half times as expensive as the 35 and was beyond my budget. Actually the budget bit was an easy excuse - I had the money as a young bachelor those days but I was also young and naive. I knew little about air rifles. My own first air rifle was an Indian made underlever. It was a smooth barrel affair and hopelessly inaccurate. This had made me suspicious of underlever rifles - an indicator of how ignorant I must have been to "be suspicious" of a HW77 which is a rifle of high repute.

"

Like Briha Sir has said , Excellent way to sum up ! Thanks.

regards
joywarrior

[joywarrior]

India has changed. The number of people shooting has risen and the variety of weapons and knowledgeable people has increased. I am certain we are going to see more and better Indian made weapons. Air rifles mean precision engineering and metallurgy/materials. The developed west have had that for over 60 years, In India it is appearing now. It is only a matter of time before a young Indian says "Damn - I am not going to pay an arm and a leg for an imported spring gun. I have the skills and knowledge - I will do it right here in India."

> Well Said
> Pl see my post "Orion Vs Samurai 3G - It says it all.
AGN!
Wow! That was some reading
We've learned it the hard way & it has benefited us
Briha

Still Learning Sir, Still Learning ! and yes what a read -

joywarrior

[joywarrior]

joywarrior

YOU asked for advice, I chipped in with some direct comments and advice which clearly has upset you. I am not being personal, you THINK I am being personal.
Next time you seek advice, be prepared to read or hear something that you may or may not like. Be open minded about it.
I do not claim to be an expert on airguns but I definitely know better about them than YOU.
As for the title of the thread, even the learned ones you approach will tell you it is an exercise in wastage of time and energy.
99.9% of Indian made air rifles and air pistols are junk metal and wood.
But then again, it is your money, waste it as you see fit. You allude to the one being with the golden spoon in the mouth, I thought you were'nt and I was speaking for the rule and not the exception.
From the thread you have started, and the quantity of english you have keyed in, It is quite clear that you are confused about this whole affair.
Air rifle shooting is a very simple affair, There is nothing complicated about it.

M.

Well as you rightly said and I quote "To each his own". I think it would be best for us to leave it at that.

Wishes
joywarrior.

[joywarrior]

Regards and Special Thanks for your suggestion of the Weirauch 35.

You'e welcome mate. If I were to ever buy a Weihrauch again in my life (unlikely), ......"

Will keep that in mind when choosing and international brand.

Thank you,
joywarrior

[airgun_novice]

[SNIP] I never advised "do anything you want with air rifle", [SNIP] So I'll stay away from that trap.

Thank you for your suggestions.
Happy Plinking / Target Shooting...
Regards and Wishes
joywarrior

Dear Joywarrior

Quoting you here -> "*.177 /.22 - I and I alone - will decide what I need and for what purpose"
I do not use traps either - Mortein works just fine.

Glad you agree with Brihji about the "read" - that you can write and read is indisputable; but whether you understood is a different matter. If you post things on this forum they will be read at member's discretion - hence my suggestion of blog which gives the option of non-subscription. So how about shoving that over-inflated ego of yours aside and getting back to turning the SDB around and teaching us a few new things like Brihji ? Now that would be something we all shall look forward to. Good Luck.