Anti-gunners in India capitalise on US tragedy

[mundaire]

I find it absolutely appalling that these people are playing off our collective disgust at this tradgedy and using as leverage our shared empathy towards the victims and their families to push their own agenda in India!

It's not just in the US, gun violence is an Indian tragedy also
Patralekha Chatterjee | Agency: DNA | Monday, December 17, 2012

Guns N’ Roses come together in ecstatic fusion onlyin rock music. Elsewhere, guns emit the smell of death and devastation. As I write, grief, horror and outrage continue to sweep across the world as details of the latest gun violence in the United States come out. The spotlight is firmly back on gun laws, one of the touchiest political issues in that country.

In the shootout at Newtown, Connecticut, an armed young man barged into an elementary school with which his mother was associated, and shot dead 26 people with his mother’s legally purchased guns. The victims of the massacre included 20 children between the ages of six and seven. The six adults who died in the shootout were women. Barely had one time to digest this act of senseless violence, thatanother shootout has been reported. Last Saturday, a man opened fire at a hospital in Alabama, wounding a police officer and two employees, before being shot and killed by another officer.

The arguments, both for and against gun control in the US, are well-known. Within minutes of the news of the shootout breaking, the social media began to reverberate with thefamiliar refrain:“Guns don’t kill; people do.”Laila Lalami, a Moroccan American novelist and essayist, captured the desperation and helplessness of the others when she tweeted the “five Stages of gun Violence in America: 1. Shock. 2. Prayers. 3. Condolences. 4. Mourning. 5. Amnesia.”

The investigations into the case continue. So does the hugely polarized discourse overmass shootings in the United States and the nation’s gun culture. But this is not only an American tragedy as some would like to believe. Today, gun violenceis an everywhere problem.

Last weekend, an 18-year-old B Tech first year student was shot dead allegedly by his 52-year-old jobless father on the outskirts ofDelhi. The father was angry at being harangued about his alcoholism and his joblessness. The man used a licenseddouble-barrel gun to kill his son. InGurgaon, armed men recently bargedinto a private hospital and shot at afather and the son in the Intensive Care Unit (ICU). The reason:personal enmity.

Recent media reports have detailed numerous gun-related fatalities involving petty and personal disputes. India has more than40 million civilian-owned firearms. The gun licensing regime in India (regulated by the Arms Act, 1959) is stringent but there is athriving illegal weapons market. Unlicensed firearms account for86 to 92 per cent of reported firearm-related murders, depending on the year, according to a 2011 report of the India Armed Violence Assessment.

Illegal firearms is not the only problem. There are other emerging challenges. The Supreme Court has asked foran explanation from the Centre about the norms for issuing gun licences to private security guards. At a time whenprivate security agencies are mushrooming all over the country, a regulatory framework against misuse of private security agencies is a must. But how many states are paying heed?

Of equal importance is the chorus of voices, within India, assertingthat this country needs more firearms given its low police-to-population ratio.

Willindividual ownership of guns spell greatersecurity?This is no longer a question that only Americans have to deal with.

The National Association for Gun Rights India (NAGRI) rues that The Right to Keep & Bear Arms was enshrined as a Legal Right as per the Arms Act, 1959 but beginning in the early 1980s and continuing to date, several amendments have been made to the original Arms Act, 1959 & Arms Rules, 1962. This, according to NAGRI, hasleft the “common citizen defenceless and at the mercy of all manner of criminals & anti-national elements”.

The Association argues that “this policy of creeping disarmament of law abiding citizens, prompted a group of public-spirited citizens to collect together in January 2010 to form NAGRI, with the goal of ensuring that every Indian citizen’s right to own & carry arms to protect themselves is upheld”.

The world responded to 9/11 by chanting “We are all Americans”. Today, as we express regret, sorrow, and condolence to the bereaved families in the US, it is time to also ask “What next?”. Gun violence is here, right in our own backyard as well.

The author is a Delhi-based writer

http://www.dnaindia.com/analysis/column ... so_1778301

[inplainsight]

Ahh another very well researched article by DNA </Sarcasm>

Today, gun violence is an everywhere problem.

As opposed to other forms of violence, which are not a problem? Its a wonderful way to take an American story about an American tragedy and put our own 'namak-mirchi-tadka' on it. I honestly doubt it if this author has every applied for a gun license in Delhi...

[YogiBear]

Aloha,

As is said in the US, he's never been a victim of a violent street crime.......

[dev]

Who reads this rag anyway? Wasn't their journalist severely chastised on the board for writing such trash earlier?

Regards,

Dev

[TC]

Aloha,

As is said in the US, he's never been a victim of a violent street crime.......

The author is a "she", a rice and fish eating Bengali and no journalist of high repute. I suggest we thank god for giving her at least that flicker of wisdom to mention NAGRI and its views. Yes, these are times when we need to thank god for every small mercy.

Thanks Abhijeet for the post. But, as I mentioned in my reply in another thread (that led one of our members to question my integrity as a pro-gun citizen) questions like these will continue to be raised as long as we have people like that alcoholic father and incidents like the hospital shootout this freelancer has referred to. As I see it, the latest massacre in the US is just another addition to the long list of incidents exposing irresponsibility and anoemic behaviour. Nobody can deny the fact that if these guys did not have access to a "mother's" semi auto weapons and were armed with, lets say, base ball clubs and knives so many lives would not have been lost. Anti-gunners will always draw all the powder they need from these incidents and train their guns at pro-gun lobbies. We have to face it because arguments like "look I have three guns but I have not killed a fly in my life" or "if that Delhi girl had a gun she could have saved herself" is just not going to work. This is how I see the issue. Even though I get shocked by "facts" like "there are 40 million civilian owned firearms in India" there is no way one can deny the fact that in India gun owners, or, to be more precise, responsible gun owners survive as a majestic minority. All we can do to safeguard our rights is to fight it out majestically.

Regards
TC

[inplainsight]

Another gem from these guys, about how the US is paying for its liberal gun laws.

http://www.dnaindia.com/analysis/column ... aw_1718867

I particularly liked these two paragraphs, I wonder if these two reports get along...

Despite the bravado of US policymakers that occurrences like Virginia Tech and Aurora cannot be attributed to loose gun regulation, there is a lurking fear in most American minds that free availability of guns is dangerous to the average peace-loving citizen. When you walk the US streets, you will have to presume that a stalker or anyone who confronts you has a weapon on his person. This is the psyche that persuades many law enforcement personnel to open fire in a jiffy at an individual, however mildly the latter may challenge the former’s authority.

We in India are far better off. The absence of guns explains why there are fewer murders, if one takes into account the fact that we are no less a violent nation than the US. We have nearly as many attempts to murder as there are murders only because the victim invariably escapes with serious injuries caused by weapons other than firearms.

[GNV]

A girl student gets gang raped in public transport bus and tossed out of the bus in the country's capitol city. what does the anti guns say about that.

[FN-Five-Seven]

Actually I don't blame Ms Patralekha Chatterjee for her views , I blame the DNA network for having such a delusional fool on their journalist team .

Ms Chatterjee , in her column gives details to how a a young man barged into an elementary school with legally purchased weapons belonging to his mother and killed 20 children and six adults . Apparently she missed out on a tiny detail that , the shooter , Adam Lanza , was a mentally unstable youth . Ms Chatterjee and people like her who have "Anti gun" views , fail to see that the Mother Nancy Lanza , was an irresposible mother and an irresponsible gun owner . I mean , there are reports that Nancy Lanza used to take her son to the gun range and teach him to shoot the M4 carbine , she owned . Now if someone takes their mentally unstable children to a gun range to teach how to shoot a M4 carbine , is a prime case of irresponsible parenting . If this is not , I don't know what it is . There are also reports that Nancy Lanza used display her 5 firearms , namely two handguns , two rifles and the M4 carbine to her friends everytime they visited her . Nancy Lanza treated her treated her firearms as if they were her bowling trophies . The fact that Adam Lanza was able to get hold of the GLOCK & Sig Sauer & the M4 carbine is evident that Nancy Lanza did not take any precautions to securing and storing the firearms and their ammunition in a gun safe at home . Who knows , maybe she had them on display in her living room .

Now in my opinion , it's not fair to take away the gun rights from the entire population of a country just because few gun owners are irresponsible .

In the Connecticut shooting incident , everyone is pointing fingers at the Gun Rights activists . No one is touching the issue of pay a close attention to the treatment of mentally ill persons . Provide them with better counselling , effective medications , having better Medical Insurance Policies to cover the treatment , if parents are not able provide for the treatment for the condition of their children .

I am surprised , that , people fail to realize that in such unfortunate incidents , the firearms are NOT to be blamed . The intention or the mental condition is the REAL culprit behind these incidents . Merely taking away the tools ( firearms ) won't prevent incidents from occurring again . We NEED to look and rectify the source of the problem .

Timothy McVeigh killed 168 people including 19 children in Oklahoma City on 19th April , 1995 , using a truck bomb , which was made using 2300 kgs of fertilizer ( Ammonium Nitrate ) and racing fuel . So now , I guess , Anti Gun people should look into banning fertilizer and racing fuel too .

Ms Chatterjee does not mention that one the same day of the Conneticut shooting , a deranged man in China attacked a school in China and seriously injured 20 children .

It's a sad reality that people with "Anti Gun" mentality like Ms Chatterjee will always be the Majority and Gun Right Activist will always be in Minority in most of the countries .

[Virendra S Rathore]

There are also reports that Nancy Lanza used display her 5 firearms , namely two handguns , two rifles and the M4 carbine to her friends everytime they visited her . Nancy Lanza treated her treated her firearms as if they were her bowling trophies . The fact that Adam Lanza was able to get hold of the GLOCK & Sig Sauer & the M4 carbine is evident that Nancy Lanza did not take any precautions to securing and storing the firearms and their ammunition in a gun safe at home . Who knows , maybe she had them on display in her living room.

Then are we suggesting that Guns and ammo should be locked away in some corner?
I could live with that as long as it doesn't hamper my chances against a rapist or robber barging in. But sadly it does hamper my chances.
I think the problem was not the access to firearms but exposing a mentally unstable or socially awkward youngster to firearms.
Problem is also the socio-cultural desensitization of the new generation via uncontrolled violence & sex shown at TV, Movies, Games and Internet etc.
Problem is also the reckless parenting that doesn't realize how kids are getting exposed, what it is doing to them & what to do to save them, educate them rationally.
Problem is also that once you have a kid like that, he / she will not realize that they are passing on the same distortion to the next generation and will do nothing to change the situation.

As I mention everywhere, each household has a kitchen, each kitchen has a handsome long knife. I am yet to see half the world kill itself in homicides !

Regards,
Virendra

[FN-Five-Seven]

Then are we suggesting that Guns and ammo should be locked away in some corner?
I could live with that as long as it doesn't hamper my chances against a rapist or robber barging in. But sadly it does hamper my chances.

In my above post , I did not make any suggestions to how someone should keep their firearms at home or how they should carry their firearms while on move .
I , however , DID mention that , if a mentally ill son was able to get his hands on his mother's GLOCK & Sig Sauer & her M4 Carbine and their ammunition , then the mother was irresponsible in storing and securing her legally owned firearms . In my books , that makes her an irresponsible gun owner and I stand by my statement .

I believe , it was very unlikely that Adam Lanza used a blow torch to cut open the Gun Safe and take the weapons , or he picked the lock of the Gun Safe like an expert lock smith and got hold of the weapons . On the basis of reports that Nancy Lanza used to displays her firearms as some bowling trophies , I made the assumption that they were displayed in her living room showcase , in other words , easy access to any one .
Then again it might be possible that , Adam Lanza did defeat the Gun Safe and take the weapons . Who knows ? I was not there to witness that .

As for storing & securing firearms , different people have different requirements and they should make suitable arrangements to fulfill the same . There is no " One size fits all " solution for this . What works for me , may or may not work for you .
There are many alternatives between locking away the firearms in a vault and throwing away the key in the middle of the ocean & keeping the firearms lying around the house .

I think the problem was not the access to firearms but exposing a mentally unstable or socially awkward youngster to firearms.

If Adam Lanza did not have access to the firearms , then this unfortunate incident wouldn't have happened and those 20 kids and their teacher would still be alive , their families would not have been ruined . I am curious as to why you think otherwise .

Problem is also the socio-cultural desensitization of the new generation via uncontrolled violence & sex shown at TV, Movies, Games and Internet etc.

If I see all the movies of the " Fast & Furious " series , then start thinking of myself as Vin Diesel and loose control of my car and mow down a dozen people , then I and only I are to be blamed for my actions . I cannot start blaming Vin Diesel , the Director & Producer of the movie , HBO , my television set , my DTH service provider for the fact that I lost track of what is real life and what is entertainment .

As I mention everywhere, each household has a kitchen, each kitchen has a handsome long knife. I am yet to see half the world kill itself in homicides !

There have been countless incidents of domestic violence , where common household item have been misused .

Regards,
FN- Five-Seven

[dr.jayakumar]

when ever a incidence happens,we see innumerable people giving their views against gun ownership.let us not despair,let us work as we worked earlier.(nagri)....together, and not let people like ms patralekha chatterjee seek publicity through such article which they intend to do.
regards
dr,jk

[Virendra S Rathore]

In my above post , I did not make any suggestions to how someone should keep their firearms at home or how they should carry their firearms while on move .
I , however , DID mention that , if a mentally ill son was able to get his hands on his mother's GLOCK & Sig Sauer & her M4 Carbine and their ammunition , then the mother was irresponsible in storing and securing her legally owned firearms . In my books , that makes her an irresponsible gun owner and I stand by my statement .

On that I don't disagree. She was irresponsible not only in having firearms in such an environment (family also went through a divorce) but used to lead the misfit teenager into shooting ranges as well.

If Adam Lanza did not have access to the firearms , then this unfortunate incident wouldn't have happened and those 20 kids and their teacher would still be alive , their families would not have been ruined

We don't know that. He would've gone with a sword if not a gun, a knife if not a sword. Agreed, casualties may have been lesser. But casualties also increase because of the absence of a swift response system. We all know how much it takes for LEOs to arrive at scene and become saviors for whatever is remaining.
They are a system. Regardless of how efficient and capable they are made, they will always have their limitations. They cannot cover every citizen all places all the times.

If I see all the movies of the " Fast & Furious " series , then start thinking of myself as Vin Diesel and loose control of my car and mow down a dozen people , then I and only I are to be blamed for my actions . I cannot start blaming Vin Diesel , the Director & Producer of the movie , HBO , my television set , my DTH service provider for the fact that I lost track of what is real life and what is entertainment .

Agree again. So the society cannot pay the price of one man's actions, can it?

There have been countless incidents of domestic violence , where common household item have been misused .

Yes there have been. And yet we don't ban kitchen knives or even driving on the road for that matter (accidents?).
Because we know that the majority who are law abiding citizen, not only use their tools/devices responsibly but also need them for the right reasons.

Regards,
Virendra