Tips on Pistol Shooting

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airgun_novice
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Re: Tips on Pistol Shooting

Post by airgun_novice » Mon Dec 03, 2012 10:06 pm

tirpassion wrote:Dear Brihaji and agn bhai,
[SNIP]

I do hereby propose that extraordinary members be honoured in TOPS with the title of TOPSHOT! Your comments please...

my sincere regards
tirpassion
No No No - surprise coming from you since even Guruji mis-types you as you-know-what ;-) Then the "outsiders" might simply read us as "TOPS HOT" and try to start "dostana" here !!! naheeeeee.... my quill simply has retreated into the cover, err, the pot, err, never mind !
Poetry has surrendered - lead prevails. :-)

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Re: Tips on Pistol Shooting

Post by brihacharan » Tue Dec 04, 2012 8:24 pm

[quote="tirpassion"]
Dear Brihaji and agn bhai,
> You people are really EXCELLENT!!!! Very frankly, I am honoured to have come across you.
> In end February 2013, I will hopefully be able to touch Brihaji's 'Charan' if he would kindly allow me a 'Darshan' :D .

Hi tirpassion,

> Humility for me is a virtue by default - Frankly I don't deserve the encomiums you're generously showering on me.
> At 3 score + 10 and a 5 to boot I'm still learning from those who are more knowledgeable than me & that's what keeps me going.
> Like Issac Newton said - I am simply collecting pebbles from the shores of knowledge!
> I have also learnt that failure is nothing to be disheartened with - In fact it teaches you not to make the same mistakes again!
> Like searching the proverbial needle in the haystack - You may not find the needle - but the search is what its all about!
> In the process you may find things which you felt never existed.
> The thrill is not the destination you arrive at - but the journey that took you there!
> I truly look forward to meeting you :D
Cheers
Briha

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Re: Tips on Pistol Shooting

Post by tirpassion » Wed Dec 05, 2012 3:40 pm

Dear friends,
I am having a notable experience with the G.Smith P10. But, first of all, I would refer to a part of one of my earlier posts.
Please know one thing also. Using the same brand of pellet is important because with time the barrel accumulates some healthy leading which is beneficial for the consistency/accuracy of the same pellet which caused the healthy leading. You need to clean the barrel lightly every 1000 shots with a wad but do not clean for hours like a maniac. Thorough cleaning will remove the healthy leading and you will be completely confused why suddenly the weapon has lost it's accuracy.
I started shooting the P10s on 19th of November. I have shot about 250 till now. Now since I have started shooting with the P10, the groupings of the RWS Club pellets have gone astray. :shock: . Amazing, I am not being able to get good groupings with them and they are my usual pellets. On the contrary, the JSB pellets have turned out to be amazingly accurate.

Here, I think that there is something with the material used (the alloy). The RWS are normally very shiny pellets made with a particular alloy and it should have minimal lead residue. The P10s have more lead content (I think) because they are dark in colour perhaps out of oxidation of pure lead and they leave more residue inside the barrel. The extra layer of residual lead must have disturbed the RWS pellets which had it's own self prepared track inside the barrel. Now, the JSB pellets also have a very high pure lead content (less shiny, very soft but not dark in colour) which must have found the track prepared by P10 to be very helpful for it's travel.

On 29th Nov, I cleaned the barrel with 6 wads. The RWS pellets started grouping well again but but quite low on the target (barrel being very clean, the velocity was on the higher side and hence the trajectory was flatter). The JSB pellets groupings were not that tight anymore. I was profoundly confused. On Monday, 3rd Dec, I shot again about 30 P10 pellets and then switched to the JSB. The JSB pellets were again grouping very well. Then I tried the RWS and sprayed everywhere :( Switched back to the JSBs to be very happy again :D . So, I have decided to continue with the JSB pistol pellets till further enlightenment/gyan. I will preciously keep the P10s for time to time barrel conditioning :D .

Agn bhaisaheb, the mystic success of your Mastershot Yellow and the failure of your R10s in your AP might have a relation to the above phenomenon.

Would any metal expert enlighten us on this matter?

best regards
tirpassion

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Re: Tips on Pistol Shooting

Post by jitu sati » Wed Dec 05, 2012 7:07 pm

hye guys i am now back to shooting the 9 ring. the results to be honest are not something to write home about. but the good part is i have started getting a good feel about the grip of the ap. let me give it a week more and then i will tell you the results and the improvement. hey tir any tgts i should set to be achieved in the 9 ring prac?

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Re: Tips on Pistol Shooting

Post by brihacharan » Wed Dec 05, 2012 8:05 pm

[quote="jitu sati"]
hye guys i am now back to shooting the 9 ring. the results to be honest are not something to write home about. but the good part is i have started getting a good feel about the grip of the ap. let me give it a week more and then i will tell you the results and the improvement.

Hi jitu sati,
> Great going man :D
> Looks like you are getting on the right track.
> If you have the grip to your feel (comfort level) - then the rest will follow.
> Persistence is the key towards better achievement :D
Good Luck
Briha

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Re: Tips on Pistol Shooting

Post by airgun_novice » Wed Dec 05, 2012 10:32 pm

Upacharyaji,
Thank Gods, RGV is not on this forum - he would have brought out another flick - Bhoot Returns ... AGAIN! (aka Bhoot III) Have not been shooting, just experimenting with trigger settings and writing the same in prose and poetry. :-) Dec 6th - range closed and Dadar area flooded with guests. Will pay a visit there next week. First there was fatigue due to lotsa travel - but now that I have rested restlessness grows...

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Re: Tips on Pistol Shooting

Post by major » Wed Dec 05, 2012 10:45 pm

hi everyone,

I recently purchased a dummy air pistol for practicing at home. And it has really started showing results. After practicing for a week with the dummy, I did live shooting this Sunday. I shot a series of 91,90,87,97 totalling 365/400. The last series score of 97 amazed everyone at the club and the coach was on cloud nine. I tried to shoot my last series as quickly as possible. I shot my last 10 ten shots in 5 minutes with two cancellations. I don't know if it was by fluke or something else. But, I will try this shooting quickly again on this Saturday and then decide.

Hi Jitu ji,

Could you pls elaborate what is the nine ring practice? I probably might have missed in the previous posts.

Regards
major

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Re: Tips on Pistol Shooting

Post by tirpassion » Thu Dec 06, 2012 3:50 am

major wrote:hi everyone,

I recently purchased a dummy air pistol for practicing at home. And it has really started showing results. After practicing for a week with the dummy, I did live shooting this Sunday. I shot a series of 91,90,87,97 totalling 365/400. The last series score of 97 amazed everyone at the club and the coach was on cloud nine. I tried to shoot my last series as quickly as possible. I shot my last 10 ten shots in 5 minutes with two cancellations. I don't know if it was by fluke or something else. But, I will try this shooting quickly again on this Saturday and then decide.

Hi Jitu ji,

Could you pls elaborate what is the nine ring practice? I probably might have missed in the previous posts.

Regards
major
Bravo major! Hat's off to you! Even without the 97, I would say Bravo to you.
The good scoring you did was because of shooting rapidly. The rapid shooting sequence = no time for parasitic thoughts to sneak in your head. Carry on with this rhythm, you will go higher. Do not pay any heed to the score, pleaseeeee!!!!
The 9 ring drill is in fact to shoot on a comp target after cutting off the 9 ring. That way you are not tempted to count your score and you are satisfied to have put all your pellets within the 9 ring. This is a method for those who tend to count the score a lot. If you can keep your mind off the scoring part, you need not do this exercise. Just concentrate on your rhythm of SOA.

best regards
tirpassion

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Re: Tips on Pistol Shooting

Post by tirpassion » Thu Dec 06, 2012 3:54 am

airgun_novice wrote:Upacharyaji,
Thank Gods, RGV is not on this forum - he would have brought out another flick - Bhoot Returns ... AGAIN! (aka Bhoot III) Have not been shooting, just experimenting with trigger settings and writing the same in prose and poetry. :-) Dec 6th - range closed and Dadar area flooded with guests. Will pay a visit there next week. First there was fatigue due to lotsa travel - but now that I have rested restlessness grows...
By the way (BTW) agn saab, who or what is RGV??? I am still so poor in abbreviations :( .

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Re: Tips on Pistol Shooting

Post by tirpassion » Thu Dec 06, 2012 4:35 am

jitu sati wrote: hey tir any tgts i should set to be achieved in the 9 ring prac?
Dear jitu,
I will come back to the same thing again. Do a box drill. If there is a 8, stop, give yourself a BIG KICK on your posterior part, utter a few demeaning galis destined for your own self (something which would enrage you the extent that you would break the nose of the person who told it to you) and then cool yourself down to analyze why the error occured. Go back to shoot and do not commit that bloody error! Do not commit that bloody error again! Put those pellets inside the hole and write down proudly in your diary 'I HAVE DONE IT'. There is bloody no way that I can not.

It is not a joke. Stop being complacent with yourself if you want to progress.

Best regards
tirpassion

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Re: Tips on Pistol Shooting

Post by jitu sati » Thu Dec 06, 2012 9:54 am

ok tir
will keep on with the nine drill and follow your advice

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Re: Tips on Pistol Shooting

Post by airgun_novice » Thu Dec 06, 2012 11:08 am

tirpassion wrote:[SNIP]

By the way (BTW) agn saab, who or what is RGV??? I am still so poor in abbreviations :( .
RGV = Ram Gopal Varma, the dude who considers himself as "uttaradhikari" of the Ramsays (of Horror flick) fame. He of course, made a royal ***whatever*** of Sholay by bringing out "RGV ki Aag". :-( His outputs include Bhoot & now Bhoot Returns - hence my feeble attempt at humor to explain the paranormal activity of pellets as Bhoot Returns Again.

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Re: Tips on Pistol Shooting

Post by airgun_novice » Thu Dec 06, 2012 11:10 am

Major - wonderful output. Keep it up. :cheers: BTW more out of curiosity & ignorance, what is a dummy gun ?

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Re: Tips on Pistol Shooting

Post by brihacharan » Thu Dec 06, 2012 1:03 pm

Quote - tirpassion,
Agn bhaisaheb, the mystic success of your Mastershot Yellow and the failure of your R10s in your AP might have a relation to the above phenomenon.

Would any metal expert enlighten us on this matter?
best regards
tirpassion

Hi Guys,
> Since tirpassion has thrown the gauntlet - here's my take :D

An Over-view
The metallurgical composition of a barrel & the physics and mechanics of the pitch and landing of the grooves (rifling) within it + the proportion of metals such as lead, antimony and tin in a pellet and not to mention its shape (Diablo) have been subjects that have been discussed and debated since the introduction of air weapons without any conclusive findings with respect to ‘an ideal combination’ that would result in a ‘perfect’ match score!!!

Any air arm is an ‘enigma’ and the ‘idiosyncrasy’ of their behavior is a well known fact. Even the most respected of manufacturers opine that ‘no two air arm behaves similarly’ even though they come from the same batch, something beyond the comprehension of shooters the world over.
Thus the discussions & debates on the gun and pellet and their unified performance will go on till kingdom come followed by thesis after thesis being written on it…

Like the experts keep repeating – Only exhaustive trials can determine the ideal match between the barrel & pellet that deliver consistent match winning groupings. And when you strike the perfect match – stay with it and enjoy your shooting.
COMPOSITION OF PELLETS:
Almost all air-gun pellets are made of soft lead. No other material seems to offer such an excellent combination of weight and density, workability, rifling engagement, air seal, inertia, expansion upon impact, and resistance to ricochet.
Small amounts of antimony and/or tin are sometimes alloyed into pellet lead to increase in its hardness. Harder pellets resist handling and loading damage better, but they also may resist proper engagement by the rifling, and reduce velocity through increased friction and lesser air compression.
Penetration is increased, but expansion is reduced. A hard pellet may appear more effective in tests because of its greater penetration, but in use on game it probably would be less effective than an expanding pellet.
A typical analysis on the perfect pellet composition by British Standard No. 602: 1956 II
•Lead – Should not be less than 99.25% and not more than 99.80%
•Antimony – Should not be more than 0.10%
•Zinc – Should not be more than 0.005%
•Copper – Should not be more than 0.07%
•Tin – Should not be more than 0.50%
•Other elements - not more than 0.075%.
BEEMAN / H&N pellets are 99.9% lead and 0.05% antimony. The addition of antimony has three noteworthy purposes:
1.To improve the swaging process.

2.To protect the pellets against transportation damages.
3.To improve resistance to corrosion.

So in the final analysis ‘there’s more than that meets the eye’ regarding a perfect match between barrel & pellet. While Germans & the British conform to stringent standards in manufacturing pellets, it remains to be seen what other manufacturers do.

Briha

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Re: Tips on Pistol Shooting

Post by major » Thu Dec 06, 2012 1:56 pm

Thanks tirpassion and agn for your guidance and encouragement.

Agn Sir,

I don't have any air pistol at home to practice with. So, I was first practicing with a jug and then later with a 2 kg dumbell on which I had pasted cardboard paper for front sight and rear sight. But, it was not helping me as the distance between the sights on the dumbell was very less and moreover it did not had any grip. So, my club coach advised me to buy a dummy, which is an exact replica of a air pistol and its also quite heavy. Only thing is that it does not fire but has a trigger for dry firing.

Regards,
major

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