How many?

[xl_target]

manshah007,
It's not just police ranges, most civilian ranges are like that too. Holes all over. Some of then starting right close to the firing line.
Makes you wonder sometimes.

[quote=""skyman"]Say, how are sigs and rugers right out of the box?[/quote]
Sorry Skyman, missed this earlier.
All my Rugers have been excellent out of the box. All my friends Rugers have been excellent out of the box.
I've never had much of anything wrong with a SIG. All of mine have been flawless. All of my friend's SIG pistols have been flawless.
However, on SIGForum, you will hear occasional gripes about quality control issues. These are usually with US made SIG pistols and not the German made SIGs. That being said, it is possible for any mechanical device to fail.

[Moin.]

90 Rounds a week for India's Elte NSG sounds unbeleivable. I've read in Inside Delta Force by eric Haney and in Delta force by Col.Charlie Beckwith, these operator fire upto 2500 rounds of 45 ACP Ammuntion from their 1911's every week. From Wikipedia the FBI's HRT which trains with GIGN, SAS, Delta and DEVGRU 1000 rounds a week to hone their shooting skills.

Don't know how true this is or how practical for that matter, but when firing accurately's a matter of life and death and what you do for a living !!!

90 Rounds a week must be made mandatory for our Traffic Havaldars loll not for Operators of Elite Military Units like the NSG

Call me a fanboy, but I so enjoy reading all this .

Handgun Shooting, Collateral, Tom Cruise must watch. His pistol shooting is almost poetic, bam bam double taps bam bam. Loll.


Sorry winnie for going OT.

Best
Moin.

[xl_target]

According the Dick Marcinko; When seal Team Six was formed, their annual ammunition budget was more than that of the entire Marine Corps.
Special Forces guys tend to practice more so they don't have to think when using their weapons. It is desired that their actions should be automatic rather than a result of conscious thought.

[boris]

90 Rounds a week for India's Elte NSG sounds unbeleivable. I've read in Inside Delta Force by eric Haney and in Delta force by Col.Charlie Beckwith, these operator fire upto 2500 rounds of 45 ACP Ammuntion from their 1911's every week. From Wikipedia the FBI's HRT which trains with GIGN, SAS, Delta and DEVGRU 1000 rounds a week to hone their shooting skills.

Don't know how true this is or how practical for that matter, but when firing accurately's a matter of life and death and what you do for a living !!!

90 Rounds a week must be made mandatory for our Traffic Havaldars loll not for Operators of Elite Military Units like the NSG

Call me a fanboy, but I so enjoy reading all this .

Handgun Shooting, Collateral, Tom Cruise must watch. His pistol shooting is almost poetic, bam bam double taps bam bam. Loll.


Sorry winnie for going OT.

Best
Moin.

Dear Moin Sir,

The NSG figure that is stated seems for the Close-Protection wing of the NSG i.e the SRG. The Counter-Terrorism wing of the NSG i.e 51,52 SAG fire close to 200 rounds a day and are supposed to hit 80% of their targets, this I remember was said by an NSG officer from the 51 SAG after the news reports on the NSG after 26/11. I am pretty sure that the MHA has answered with respect to the SRG because they are in 4-digit numbers.The 51,52 SAG at Manesar have close to 300 shooters all from the Indian Army.

The more elite units like the Para(SF),MARCOS,Special Group(R&AW) do fire a lot of rounds during everyday training. The Para(SF) do a lot of CQB with explosive entry now at the SFTS in Nahan. They have got the new toys like M4's with Holographic sights plus rumors are there that they are interested in the HK 416 as well. As it is the regular Army has begun trials for a new rifle with SIG,Colt,Beretta vying for the deal, so bye-bye INSAS.

Talking about foreign Units a new SAS trooper out of Selection fires close to a 100,000 rounds in his CQB training regimen. The figure is almost the same for the 4-5 months that a trooper in an SAS squadron which is on stand-by in the UK for CT threats, the Counter Revolutionary Wing of the SAS handles the Squadrons in stand by. The Australian Military has the Tactical Assault Group,East and West form similar roles as does the New Zealand SAS.

Happy to Help.

Edit: Since you mentioned Delta Force, here is something for you.

[youtube][/youtube]

This video has been confirmed by many former SEALs and Green Berets to be a genuine video of the Delta Force. According to them this was a recruitment sort of a video shown to candidates before Delta Assessment and Selection which was leaked by some junior NCO.

[YogiBear]

Aloha,

The key words are "reasonably proficient". For a street cop to maintain proficiency, it's going to be much

More than 50 rounds a month. For the police officers that I know, more like 100-200 rounds Per

range session at least once a month. Usually More. But then the police officers I know tended to

treat their guns as a Life Saving implement rather than a heavy tool hanging on the belt. They were

proficient with pistol, shotgun and rifle. Both of my friends were involved in shootings and scored

first round hits.

[Anand]

timmy said:
"My personal observation regarding shooting skills iis represented by analogies:

Shooting a rifle is like riding a bicycle: once you have learned how, you can go awhile without having done it, and when you try it again, your first few attempts may be a bit wobbly, but you will soon get back into the groove.

Shooting a handgun is like playing billiards: you may have done a lot of it in the past, but if you take it up again after a long layoff, you will find yourself knowing what to do, but unable to make it happen without more practice."

you are BANG ON target regarding the skill differences with rifles and handguns! It normally takes me at least 25 rounds in handguns to see some level of my shooting skills back on target after the usual hiatus of say a few months what with ammo quotas being what they are.
Regards,
Anand

[surajshuresh]

All i can say is personally i fire around 100 rounds a week mostly 9mm, .38 super some times .357 mag... If i have more time and a bit more cash to spare then i will do 50 more... It takes some time to learn to shoot decently at least from my experience. Its just like driving a car if you know to drive and reach point a to point b then that will do the job. Even if you dont drive for a long time and then suddenly start to drive you will get the hand of it. Have personal experience when i am in bangalore after a long time and look at the traffic i get scared to drive. I just stared driving then i get the hang of it. shooting is the same thing once you know it then you can do it. so if you can shoot a target at 25-30 yards (Handgun) then thats good enough to do the job may be for fun or defensive purpose. So if you want race in F1 or Nascar etc then you must do lot of practice (other variables includes like car performance etc) because you need to be faster then other so you need to develop your skills to a higher level to be better then others. Same in shooting i guess because if your in an elite group like NSG you need to be really fast then others or else your dead. So to be better then others you need more practice (means more rounds fired) and improve your skills... Honestly NSG's have the physical and mental capabilities but lack on gear which can be game changer for anyone.(better body armor, weapons and tactics, technology) GOI must be willing to spend some updates have been done after the Mumbai attack but US forces like seals and delta are far better trained and equipped.

[SriramK]

Well said SKYMAN, I once had an opportunity to visit police shooting range in naigaon Dadar, mumbai. IT was a long concrete stucture about 25 yards in length 12 feet wide & height of 10 feet. It was used for used for small weapon training, i presume, where cops practice their skill of using firearms. The training and practice or lack of it made me think, for what i saw was THE FULL CEILING & SIDE WALLS WERE RIDDLED WITH BULLET MARKS STARTING FROM MAYBE 2 YARDS LENGTH from firing position. so it is for you all to decide what to expect in case of any adverse situation. Yes i did not expect national or international level of shooting but atleast decent shots somewhere near the target and not shots fired at ceiling. This observation is not intended to demean or show disrespect to anyone in forces but to bring up the point that we the public rely on cops for our safety and their training should not be compromised by red tapeism or other political interference!

Maybe it's not bullet marks. Maybe it's soundproofing

[surajshuresh]

And also for the question How Many?

Handgun: Body target distance 15 and 30 yards
Rifle: Body target distance 100 and 300 yards
Each range session 25 rounds for each target and distance so its a total of 100 rounds for both handgun and rifles.

To learn shooting for new people 10 to 12 of the above range sessions will be good for basic shooting skills. Then to keep their shooting skills sharpened at least one range session a month or two would be good. This will be good for cops. Our cops dont even know to hold the weapon properly nor know the the safe handling procedures or know how to maintain a gun but they are good at solving cases atleast.

For special units its a whole different thing because shooting a still target standing in front of you with out stress is different from shooting a moving target, firing back and in awkward position. Shooting from different positions, distances, different targets, reaction time and reloading time etc all these must be developed and believe me it takes a long time to make it an unconditioned reflex. I do dry firing to develop draw, reaction and reloading time...Ammo to costly for me...lol...hahaha...

[dr.jayakumar]

i think its induvidual capacity to learn,iq i mean.my 2 cents.
dr.jk

[Raptor]

funny...all these here opinions and 'facts' and figures...does anyone actually know what those NSG bad boys get up to? And will they share that info if we ask them nicely?

[Moin.]

According the Dick Marcinko; When seal Team Six was formed, their annual ammunition budget was more than that of the entire Marine Corps.
Special Forces guys tend to practice more so they don't have to think when using their weapons. It is desired that their actions should be automatic rather than a result of conscious thought.

Thanks XL, Rogue Warrior looks like an intersting read.

Best
Moin.

[Moin.]

90 Rounds a week for India's Elte NSG sounds unbeleivable. I've read in Inside Delta Force by eric Haney and in Delta force by Col.Charlie Beckwith, these operator fire upto 2500 rounds of 45 ACP Ammuntion from their 1911's every week. From Wikipedia the FBI's HRT which trains with GIGN, SAS, Delta and DEVGRU 1000 rounds a week to hone their shooting skills.

Don't know how true this is or how practical for that matter, but when firing accurately's a matter of life and death and what you do for a living !!!

90 Rounds a week must be made mandatory for our Traffic Havaldars loll not for Operators of Elite Military Units like the NSG

Call me a fanboy, but I so enjoy reading all this .

Handgun Shooting, Collateral, Tom Cruise must watch. His pistol shooting is almost poetic, bam bam double taps bam bam. Loll.


Sorry winnie for going OT.

Best
Moin.

Dear Moin Sir,

The NSG figure that is stated seems for the Close-Protection wing of the NSG i.e the SRG. The Counter-Terrorism wing of the NSG i.e 51,52 SAG fire close to 200 rounds a day and are supposed to hit 80% of their targets, this I remember was said by an NSG officer from the 51 SAG after the news reports on the NSG after 26/11. I am pretty sure that the MHA has answered with respect to the SRG because they are in 4-digit numbers.The 51,52 SAG at Manesar have close to 300 shooters all from the Indian Army.

The more elite units like the Para(SF),MARCOS,Special Group(R&AW) do fire a lot of rounds during everyday training. The Para(SF) do a lot of CQB with explosive entry now at the SFTS in Nahan. They have got the new toys like M4's with Holographic sights plus rumors are there that they are interested in the HK 416 as well. As it is the regular Army has begun trials for a new rifle with SIG,Colt,Beretta vying for the deal, so bye-bye INSAS.

Talking about foreign Units a new SAS trooper out of Selection fires close to a 100,000 rounds in his CQB training regimen. The figure is almost the same for the 4-5 months that a trooper in an SAS squadron which is on stand-by in the UK for CT threats, the Counter Revolutionary Wing of the SAS handles the Squadrons in stand by. The Australian Military has the Tactical Assault Group,East and West form similar roles as does the New Zealand SAS.

Happy to Help.

Edit: Since you mentioned Delta Force, here is something for you.

[youtube][/youtube]

This video has been confirmed by many former SEALs and Green Berets to be a genuine video of the Delta Force. According to them this was a recruitment sort of a video shown to candidates before Delta Assessment and Selection which was leaked by some junior NCO.

Thank you Sir Boris for the snippets and the awesonme video.

Best
Moin.

[Skyman]

Was talking to a very knowledgeable man who said - " It isn't how many rounds you fire, it's your mental state."

[winnie_the_pooh]

I am sure the US special forces are very good but 'Fort Bragg' ?