Shoot for his legs,I say

[nagarifle]

if you can see the attack then you can react. at CQB distance one can use ones handgun as a whipping tool as well, aslo if one trains one should be able to fire from the hip if handgun is kept there.

as per the movie, its more like duling game. rushing into attack with a knife and see if one can pull the gun and the trigger before getting hit.

[xl_target]

Naga is correct.
Being forewarned is forearmed. Unfortunately most of us walk around in public totally unaware of our surroundings.

Remember according to the Tueller drill, about 21 ft (7 yards) is the magic number. At or inside that distance, even when you can see a knife wielding assailant, you will get cut. If he doesn't have a knife, he could still slug you.
Unfortunately, when out in the street, we have to let strangers approach closer than that. To counter that one just has to get into the habit of scanning all around all the time. Look at people eyes for possible intent.
I have to admit that I don't do that all the time either but I should.

[Raptor]

Naga is correct.
Being forewarned is forearmed. Unfortunately most of us walk around in public totally unaware of our surroundings.

Remember according to the Tueller drill, about 21 ft (7 yards) is the magic number. At or inside that distance, even when you can see a knife wielding assailant, you will get cut. If he doesn't have a knife, he could still slug you.
Unfortunately, when out in the street, we have to let strangers approach closer than that. To counter that one just has to get into the habit of scanning all around all the time. Look at people eyes for possible intent.
I have to admit that I don't do that all the time either but I should.

Erm ..sir, look for what? How does one determine intent by looking into someone's eyes....unless we are discussing 'romantic intent' :p sorry couldn't resist the wisecrack! Actuideally watching the hands and the bow of the shoulder is a better option , in any situation where there is imminent violence in the offing, eye contact only results in precipitating the attack. The rest is pure hollywood... We have to assume that the perp will stand close enough and facing you so that you can determine intent. Most attacks occur as people pass you by.. From the side or from the rear... Now short of wearing rear view mirrors attached to a sun visor i can't think of any other way to predict those...i'm surprised nobody spoke about training the reflexes and yes i agree that being sentient about surroundings is likely to give us an edge but overdoing it can only lead to IBS
.

[nagarifle]

look for the eyes to turn into love symbles.

lets face it. if someone wants to get you, he/she will be in public. you are not going to get a man come running with a knife at you from 100 yards more like it he will cruse along side you and dip the blade in your kidneys and walk away.

[xl_target]

Now short of wearing rear view mirrors attached to a sun visor i can't think of any other way to predict those...

Its called "keeping your head on a swivel". It used to be standard advice for fighter pilots in days gone by.

in any situation where there is imminent violence in the offing, eye contact only results in precipitating the attack.

In cases of casual thuggery, once they know you are aware of them, they will often break off the attack. Eye contact often results in them avoiding you.
What I have to remember is that different societies have different norms. In some societies, direct eye contact is taken as a challenge or as showing disrespect. In others, especially in the US, avoiding eye contact when conversing with someone is taken as a sign of evasiveness or guilt. Hence making eye contact here is not seen as a challenge. In fact, in the US, avoiding eye contact with a possible assailant could be seen as a sign of timidity.

When making comments, I also have to remember that the US is a different place than India. The most crowded place that I will find my self in, during my day to day activities, will be the parking lot of a shopping mall. I'm hardly ever on a sidewalk walking down the street and when I am, the sidewalks are not crowded. Apart from the bigger cities, public transportation is pretty much nonexistent. If you want to go anywhere, you have to drive. About the only time you will see a lot of people on the sidewalk is in the evening when the college kids are going to the bars.

[Raptor]

Now short of wearing rear view mirrors attached to a sun visor i can't think of any other way to predict those...

Its called "keeping your head on a swivel". It used to be standard advice for fighter pilots in days gone by.
Good luck keeping one's head on a swivel in Delhi metro or any other place in India we are so overcrowded that swivelling one's head in public will make him bump his noggin into someone else's face!!!
But I agree with what you are saying...that's a standard patrolling device for the infantry as well. although constant threat perception will likely result in paranoia

in any situation where there is imminent violence in the offing, eye contact only results in precipitating the attack.

In cases of casual thuggery, once they know you are aware of them, they will often break off the attack. Eye contact often results in them avoiding you.
What I have to remember is that different societies have different norms. In some societies, direct eye contact is taken as a challenge or as showing disrespect. In others, especially in the US, avoiding eye contact when conversing with someone is taken as a sign of evasiveness or guilt. Hence making eye contact here is not seen as a challenge. In fact, in the US, avoiding eye contact with a possible assailant could be seen as a sign of timidity.

When making comments, I also have to remember that the US is a different place than India. The most crowded place that I will find my self in, during my day to day activities, will be the parking lot of a shopping mall. I'm hardly ever on a sidewalk walking down the street and when I am, the sidewalks are not crowded. Apart from the bigger cities, public transportation is pretty much nonexistent. If you want to go anywhere, you have to drive. About the only time you will see a lot of people on the sidewalk is in the evening when the college kids are going to the bars.

HA HA HA !! sir you must come visit U.P. If you are carrying a gun..you will regret the fact that you are carrying just 'one', and as you correctly pointed out our cultural differences are extreme..out here direct eye contact , unless you are ready to back your play will only land you in trouble, trust me

[nagarifle]

been to UP the boys there did not struck me as tough cookies, rather the oppiste more like scallywag of a pussy cats. of course it my opion anyway

[ckkalyan]

A couple of years ago, my daughter, who knew my love for the Monty Python shows bought tickets for the two of us to see the play "Spamalot". We went to downtown Minneapolis and having some time to kill before the show, we took a walk down the street to look at the shops etc,. Minneapolis is a strange town. At times and you can go to a different block and the the nature of the neighborhood can change drastically. We were not paying much attention and all of a sudden the hair stood up on the back of my neck and I got real alert. About 25 to 30 feet away was a group of individuals dressed in rapper-like clothes and they were eyeing us (all of them) and the area was almost deserted. I got a jolt of adrenaline and everything became real sharp and slowed down. I eased my hand under my shirt and gripped the butt of my 9mm. I had my hand on my daughter'S arm and I pulled her to a stop. As soon as my eyes met the eyes of the guy in the front of the group, I could see his eyes change and he looked away. Maybe it was my imagination but they seemed to lose interest when I put my hand on the gun. Keep in mind that no one could see the gun as it was still under my shirt but they knew what the move meant. We crossed the street right there in the middle of the block and went back towards the more populated neighborhood. I have no idea what warned me but I could feel the chill when the adrenaline hit. After that I try to be a lot more alert when I am on foot, especially when I have a family member with me.

What an amazing real life incident xl_target - WoW! I totally hear you my friend, when you talk about your hackles rising and the jolt of adrenalin.

Being in a state of 'constant awareness' is a skill that can be learned by consciously and routinely catching yourself offguard. Once learned, it becomes a part of one's subconscious.

[Raptor]

been to UP the boys there did not struck me as tough cookies, rather the oppiste more like scallywag of a pussy cats. of course it my opion anyway

hi hi hi ...Good morning sir, ever been to muzaffarnagar? the rumors are even the cops on duty don't carry arms at night there...on the off chance that they might get robbed... ..personally I would give the entire eastern U.P. a wide berth....or have a Regiment of Gurkhas as an escort...and still carry a Bren as a personal weapon...but of course i'm exaggerating!

[Raptor]

In some situations,running away is not an option.If you have a family member who would also be in danger,you simply can not take to your heels.I would imagine that you would work out both the scenarios,one where you can put some distance between you and the assailant and two,where you stand your ground.

Also,what if the assailant is a better runner than you?

Winnie, obviously there are some situations where you cannot retreat. Pulling the handgun is a last resort. No one knows how one will react in a situation like that. It is a quandry that a law abiding citizen has to struggle over. I'm not trying to be patronizing as this is an issue I have struggled over myself. I have no desire to harm anyone else but I have an even greater desire to not be harmed myself (and I don't want my loved ones harmed either). If one's situational awareness fails and one allows oneself to get into a situation like the one in the above video, you don't have many choices left. I don't know how I would react to that situation till it happens but I can try to prepare.


All my instructors in every self defense class have suggested that you have to be alert all the time. Look around constantly, ahead and behind you and watch the sides. Keep you gun hand free and get ready when you see a possible threat. Cross the street if you feel you could get ganged up on on your side of the sidewalk. Stop or slow down so you have time to react to the threat. Many times when would be muggers see you are alert, they will change their minds.
A couple of years ago, my daughter, who knew my love for the Monty Python shows bought tickets for the two of us to see the play "Spamalot". We went to downtown Minneapolis and having some time to kill before the show, we took a walk down the street to look at the shops etc,. Minneapolis is a strange town. At times and you can go to a different block and the the nature of the neighborhood can change drastically. We were not paying much attention and all of a sudden the hair stood up on the back of my neck and I got real alert. About 25 to 30 feet away was a group of individuals dressed in rapper-like clothes and they were eyeing us (all of them) and the area was almost deserted. I got a jolt of adrenaline and everything became real sharp and slowed down. I eased my hand under my shirt and gripped the butt of my 9mm. I had my hand on my daughter'S arm and I pulled her to a stop. As soon as my eyes met the eyes of the guy in the front of the group, I could see his eyes change and he looked away. Maybe it was my imagination but they seemed to lose interest when I put my hand on the gun. Keep in mind that no one could see the gun as it was still under my shirt but they knew what the move meant. We crossed the street right there in the middle of the block and went back towards the more populated neighborhood. I have no idea what warned me but I could feel the chill when the adrenaline hit. After that I try to be a lot more alert when I am on foot, especially when I have a family member with me.

Re: My previous post about the Tueller drill; Tueller was a law enforcement Officer and his tests and results were meant for the benefit of other LEO's. They do open carry and being exposed more than the average citizen to the dregs of society are more likely to find themselves in a situation like that. However, it is still possible for a law abiding citizen to find themselves in a bad spot. It takes time to draw from concealment. Many of us will not or cannot open carry like a police officer. Trying to draw from an inside the waistband holster and fire accurately at an assailant charging at you is not easy. To do it in 1.5 seconds is very tough without practice, a lot of practice. Practice will ingrain the movements into your muscle memory. Drawing the gun is a last resort, when no other option will succeed. How do we make that determination? Only you can decide that but if you go as far as drawing, you'd better be prepared to use it.

Shoot for his legs? the chances of missing are far more than a body shot .I think this test is childish the shooter isn't moving no one carries a gun like that and fortunately at present we don't have a lot of people who run at people with knife just like that and people don't go around carrying knives in hand they also have to draw or pull a knife.having a firearm in self defense is not enough most of the times but its your fitness level that will take you long way.

You are correct. The chances of missing the legs in a situation like that is extremely easy. The test, however, is not childish. It is based on the Tueller drill and was formulated by a serving police officer based on his real life experiences. If however you do draw, you'd better be prepared to use it without hesitation.
All cops in the US, unless they are undercover or in plainclothes, carry their guns in a similar way to that shown in the video.

I have seen a man with drawn revolver getting slapped hell out of him.

In that case I would say that he wasn't prepared to use it after drawing. Do that with the intention of brandishing it to scare your opponent and you're guaranteed to get it taken away from you (by a more determined individual). Taking a gun away from an individual who is determined to use it is a different matter altogether. Anyone trying that will most likely get shot.

That reminds me of an anecdote. It is quite common for the anti-gun people to make an argument that you shouldn't carry as it will get taken away from you and then used against you. A few years ago, in one Twin Cities class, they brought in a martial arts expert who knew many ways to disarm a person with a gun. She said that if you pull a gun on her, she would take it away. The instructor replied that if it was so easy to take a gun away from someone, he would just take it right back . Anyway, she tried and with a simunition gun, against the instructor , she got shot every time. Such is the difference between theoretical experience and practical experience.

Sir this was ...well scary and I totally admire your calm!!

[ak27]

Though I am not against the conclusions drawn from the video, I seriously doubt that the following demonstrated conditions of the situation will arise pragmatically:-

1. The video shows the dude with the knife is ready with the knife but the guy with the gun isn't. Now, how can a person be holding a knife so openly and readily without getting noticed. If he does that in open crowd the crowd will be terrified and ring the alarm which gives you enough time to draw and ready your gun. If you are in a secluded place, most probably you will look out and scan the whole area around you even out of sheer curiosity(say 'Bird Watching') if not for any potential threats! So,this time you can notice the guy with the knife in his hand and quickly draw your weapon.

2. How come the dude with the gun is frozen in a single position and embraces the knife stab in his chest. At least, he's got to move aside or backwards. Not saying it would make a drastic difference but still it can affect the outcome of the scenario.

3. In real life if any one has an intention of attacking you, the last thing he would do is scream furiously or wield his weapon terrifyingly and come running at you(unless he suffers from serious mental illness (or) he has seen a lot of South-Indian movies.)

In the light of the above facts, the posted video fails to exactly simulate a real-life scenario.

The following video, on the other hand exactly simulates what would happen in real life if a perpetrator attacks with a knife. Notice that the gun-wielding persons in the video always move sideways/backwards and try to getaway from the attackers path. Also notice how the attackers act with great discretion and rely largely on surprise.



[youtube][/youtube]

Bottom-line: Nevertheless, If some one with a blade wants to cut you, you will get cut eventually!

[Chetan Pichamuthu]

hi,

I have read a couple of murder witness deposition's and they are all chilling for the certain similarities;

1) Death by Knives/swords attack's usually occur due to multiple injuries which is largely due to 3 or more attackers involved.
2) Habitutal offenders/Murders use the techinque of coming close to the victim, grappling and taking him by surprise watch the link-

[youtube][/youtube]

Usually 2-3 person's approach the victim and start conversation/shake hands-once victim has lowered his defense, he is grappled from behind/his hands are held etc and then the surprise attack starts.....Hence quick gun murgan will also be taken by surprise.

3) Most of the attack's that i have read about start from a distance of >5 feet which is impossible distance to draw your weapon forget firing...

Hence the golden rule avoid areas/business/interests of conflict or if your profession demands then find strength in numbers & leave the rest to God almightly.

[Raptor]

3. In real life if any one has an intention of attacking you, the last thing he would do is scream furiously or wield his weapon terrifyingly and come running at you(unless he suffers from serious mental illness (or) he has seen a lot of South-Indian movies.)

In the light of the above facts, the posted video fails to exactly simulate a real-life scenario.

Erm sir, that's exactly what soldiers are trained to do for bayonet charges ...Madras Regiment trained the entire world's infantry ,now, seriously?
BTW good video

[nagarifle]

been to UP the boys there did not struck me as tough cookies, rather the oppiste more like scallywag of a pussy cats. of course it my opion anyway

hi hi hi ...Good morning sir, ever been to muzaffarnagar? the rumors are even the cops on duty don't carry arms at night there...on the off chance that they might get robbed... ..personally I would give the entire eastern U.P. a wide berth....or have a Regiment of Gurkhas as an escort...and still carry a Bren as a personal weapon...but of course i'm exaggerating!

only a regiment of gurkhas, we eat em for breakfast. do you want to see the bones piled up?

[Raptor]

If you are what I think you are..I'll take your word for it!
then again I wasn't planning to go to nagaland..just U.P... maybe you should be categorized under 'excessive deadly force- to be deployed only in case of extreme emergencies' please don't mind sir, pun intended!