Tips on Pistol Shooting

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Re: Tips on Pistol Shooting

Post by airgun_novice » Mon Oct 22, 2012 8:44 pm

hvj1 wrote:
tirpassion wrote:
3.If any of his step in the SOA, does not feel correct, then he cancels, corrects himself, checks out in dry runs before switching to live. Thus maintaining ‘ZERO’ % tolerance towards errors.
Here is a small experience. A great AP shooter in France (several times national champion and personal best official score 588/600) was shooting last year regionals and lot of us were looking at him shooting, kind of admiration, you know... We saw him shoot a 8. He did not look at the card and rested the AP, took a break of about 30/40 seconds and started with a dry firing. It was normal for us (although we do not do it at all times). But to our surprise, he kept on dry firing, about 15 shots believe me. We were puzzled and could never understand what was the logic behind.
Thanks Tirpassion
The dry firing is to get back into the correct RHYTHM of the SOA which gets him a 10.
Your post says it all.
Best Regards and looking forward to meeting you in Satara.
Dear Guruji/ Tirpassion,

One Q - Can I actually shoot dry fire to get back on track once the record shots started ?
The reason for asking this is that I was told by a national level pistol shooter that once the record shots started, one could not shoot dry fire. :? At GFG I really needed that DF session during and after the disastrous first set of 71. :-(

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Re: Tips on Pistol Shooting

Post by airgun_novice » Mon Oct 22, 2012 9:21 pm

A bit of update on MAWC (OCT 2012) from my side. Visited the MRA today and saw the result sheet.
89, 89, 88, 88 -> Total 354/400. Rank 5th out of 56 shooters in that category. So the score is in line with my expectation. Spoke with upcharyaji a few minutes back and he pointed out that the set consistency was commendable. Another couple of reasons to be pleased. Upacharyaji asked me to recall that day and write good memories. So I thought and thought and typed...

1. It all started with the fact that I made it to the range a good hour plus before the detail. Being later in the day I missed out on the infamous office traffic that saps your strength and positive thoughts.
2. Being early, I could warm up in instalments and concentrate on waist and shoulder regions - also added wrist rotations for good measure.
3. When I took the range, I was "ready" - no random heart beats or over-sweating or any tension.
4. Ah ! The #12 lane for all its loose holder, had one advantage - it was next to the "a/c zone" so I could get a bit of draft form the shooting area - that must have prevented the fogging. What is an a/c zone ? The MRA has around 11 lanes enclosed in a/c facility while the other 10 lanes are in non-a/c. The ISSF guys shoot in a/c rea while the NR shoot in the non-a/c area. Now the non-a/c region starts with lane #12 so a bit of cool air draft comes around the glass partition since the shooting zone is all open and one - like the Mumbai domestic airport (SC'ruz) and International airport (Andheri).
5. When the shot landed in #7, I remember that there was no scare or frustration. I remembered a newly learnt rule. If in #7 work on the stance not the clicks. Next shots auto-corrected, building in the "feel good factor".
6. When I shot a #8, I remember that it motivated me to shoot a #10 next so that average would work out to "9". :-P. Interestingly I could manage it most of the time - like 8, 10, 9 or 8,8,9,10.
7. I also realized later that I had shot all in black and very few #7s and those also in first 15-18 shots when I was getting used to putting the AP down to push and pull the card for every shot; i.e. my SOA changed. In retrospect, I would say, I managed to "settle" down quite fast i.e. adapt to the new SOA.
8. A few good #10s were witnessed by a top Indian lady shooter from MRA and the 37-39 shots #10s were witnessed by the visiting guest who recently won an Olympic medal. Shot #40 I think was an 8 or a 9. Anyway it made me feel good.
9. As I turned to sit there was an eye-to-eye contact with "him" and I grinned at the thought that he might have mistaken me for some good shooter - if only he had seen my #7s and #8s... By that time I had counted my #9s and #10s and the officials peeped over my shoulder to see what all math I was working out. I grinned again thinking thatthey must have been confused with our IFG jargon SOA/ DF/ AB/ DS/ #9/ #10 written and respective percentages getting calculated. Plus all the dots (which I then changed to ticks) and xs which I changed to Xs. Anyway did a rough tally and I knew I was where I was during the prax sessions and that made me happy.
10. The pressure was not there since I had already achieved the MQS at Aurangbad.

Now to take this train to the next station - will do a trial run tomorrow at PTKS-II. :-)

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Re: Tips on Pistol Shooting

Post by bodhijobs » Mon Oct 22, 2012 9:29 pm

tirpassion wrote:Hello Bodhijobs,
Welcome to the thread mate!

As Guruji explained earlier, no question is a stupid question. Regarding the figure 8's, it should be done on a blank target, the blank white side (reverse side). If you are at the range, put a blank AP target at 10M and draw your eights with the SA intact slowly on the backdrop of that blank target. Do it both clockwise and anticlockwise. Your eye should never abandon, neither accept any deformation of the image or any blurry image during the drawing of the 8.
Do it 5 times with the shooting hand. Change to the non shooting hand and do 5 reps and continue alternatively. 60 reps in total with both hands.

Now if you are doing the same at home. You will have to adapt the card size according to the distance available.
The size of the AP target is 17cm x 17cm for 10m. So for 1m distance it should be 1.7cm x 1.7cm, for 2m it should be 3.4cm x 3.4cm and so on. The target should be placed at a height of about 140cm from the ground.

warm regards
tirpassion
Thanks for the clarification. Right now will do so at home only with an one kg weight. Let me see how I perform.

Regards
BDG
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Re: Tips on Pistol Shooting

Post by jitu sati » Tue Oct 23, 2012 9:44 am

nice to read the agn write up about his shoot. i realised what went wrong with me at NZ. i must have let the 6/7/8 affect me too much. now i am working to stabilise my mind during the shoot and just follow the SOA. keeping the tgt at the 10 m and not generating the mech feedback by pulling back the tgt after each shot. i get to see the tgt only after the 10 shots . this i hope will prepare me better for the electronic shooting. tir your comments pl

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Re: Tips on Pistol Shooting

Post by tirpassion » Tue Oct 23, 2012 12:07 pm

You need not bring back the target after each shot jitu.

Concentrate on your SOA which should make you concentrate on your follow through and in turn should make you able to make a 'more or less' precise call. The pellet has landed in the 9th ring at 6 0'clock position. The image of your SA at the moment of the shot breaking will give you information to make a call. The exactitude of the call to the tolerance limit of a circle of 1cm diameter can be jolly well accepted at our level.
Verify each and every shot for the first 5/7 shots. if you are doing good calls, stop bringing the card every time. Do it to adapt to your 4 shot cycle. That means every 4 shots.

We are all concerned with the phenomenon of looking at the card after we shoot a shot. While it is good for experienced shooters (because they know what they are doing), it can be a big problem for us novices. Here is my humble attempt to explain myself.

There is one simple thing Boss. Concentrate on the SOA and drill the discipline in your sub conscious mind. It should hardly matter where your pellet is landing during this process.
If you are curious about the landing place of your pellet (not to say directly 'if you want to see the score'), a part of your mental energy is deviated to feed your expectation which will, in turn, fuel your ego. With this mindset, if you succeed to shoot a 10, the biggest beneficiary will be the Ego. For the next shots the Ego will command through expectation and in due course will siphon off more and more mental energy which is so vital for concentration. So the following shots will, in all probability, land in the unexpected zones and will give the Ego a big blow. Once the Ego is punched hard on the face, it will diminish the self esteem and will sculpt out the bust of a perfect loser.

On the other hand, there is the possibility to shoot with the box drill on SOA by sealing the mental energy tank from all possible leakages. The only outlet it is attached to, is the Concentration. I respect meticulously each and every step of my SOA, I feel each and everyone of them, I see already the perfect SA before I even lift my weapon, I feel the trigger pull action while settling in my aiming zone and when I am deeply concentrated on my follow through, wow! the pellet goes off arousing a sensation of a pleasant surprise which I appreciate immensely. What a great shot it was!!!
This is worth a laudable Tick. I restart the process to do the same thing, to feel the same thing again and again and again...
If something goes wrong in the process, there is something wrong with the shot. It will deserve a big X in the box drill. At the end of the drill, I will calculate the %. The next day, I will do better %. My goal is 100%.
In this process, is there any need for bringing the card back after every shot? I do not personally because I care a damn.
Remember that I am training and hence I am preparing myself for long term. Scores are subsidiary issues in the training sessions. I train to apply my acquired skills in a match to achieve better results and not vice versa.

In case I am not clear in my views, please feel free to talk to me. A verbal dose might work better :)

best regards
tirpassion

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Re: Tips on Pistol Shooting

Post by bodhijobs » Tue Oct 23, 2012 12:51 pm

tirpassion wrote:You need not bring back the target after each shot jitu.


There is one simple thing Boss. Concentrate on the SOA and drill the discipline in your sub conscious mind. It should hardly matter where your pellet is landing during this process.
If you are curious about the landing place of your pellet (not to say directly 'if you want to see the score'), a part of your mental energy is deviated to feed your expectation which will, in turn, fuel your ego. With this mindset, if you succeed to shoot a 10, the biggest beneficiary will be the Ego. For the next shots the Ego will command through expectation and in due course will siphon off more and more mental energy which is so vital for concentration. So the following shots will, in all probability, land in the unexpected zones and will give the Ego a big blow. Once the Ego is punched hard on the face, it will diminish the self esteem and will sculpt out the bust of a perfect loser.


tirpassion
This is so very well said Sir and I have seen it happening to me so many times not only when I am shooting but also in other aspects like taking a shot at goal while playing football or cracking a tough question. Invariably, the ego inflates and the next few tries if not worthwhile punctures it down and so goes down the self esteem.

However, in a real tournament, we do get to see the scores and how do we keep away from the score effect? Simply taking off the mind on that particular score and concentrating on the bigger picture?

Regards
BDG
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Re: Tips on Pistol Shooting

Post by hvj1 » Tue Oct 23, 2012 5:48 pm

Dear AGN,
It was such a pleasure to read your account of the competition. a whole lot of positive stuff. You see over the years, I have trained myself to ignore my poor shots, including cricket, if the ball missed my stumps or missed being caught by a fielder, I would just delete it from my mind and carry on in the same aggressive fashion.
On this forum too, the moment somebody writes in a negative fashion, I stop reading.
But today I enjoyed, really enjoyed reading your account because you saw so much positive in the match. Please keep it up. :clap:

Dear Tirpassion,
I read your last post and it was brilliant, so superbly written, regarding how to concentrate on SOA and ego getting punched, etc..We are all very lucky and honoured to have you contributing on this thread. :)
Best Regards to both.

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Re: Tips on Pistol Shooting

Post by tirpassion » Tue Oct 23, 2012 7:47 pm

Dear Sir,
I am just ruminating what you fed us all with.
Thanks a million, again!!!

sincere regards
tirpassion

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Re: Tips on Pistol Shooting

Post by tirpassion » Tue Oct 23, 2012 8:01 pm

Dear agn bhai,
Namaskar!

You have just received the Certificate of Merit from Guruji. Please know also that it means no more alibis will ever be tolerated from now on... :D

I will reveal a truth to you. I did not ever try to read your post GFG match analysis. Forgive me if you can. I am sorry.

laage raho agn bhai...

warm regards
tirpassion

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Re: Tips on Pistol Shooting

Post by airgun_novice » Tue Oct 23, 2012 10:58 pm

Dear Guruji, Thank you very much for your kind words of encouragement.
Dear Tirpassion, It's OK. Delete that mail if you will - GFG-II is history.

After good news, now it's not too good news. Train to PTKS was derailed.

1. Heat and sweating did me in again. It was in basement without any air circulation and I sweated like a pig, err like a fish in fact. Whenever I took a break and had put the head down, there would be a small puddle between my feet. Two handkerchiefs soaked and would exude stream of water (sweat) when squeezed. Sweat flowed down my brows onto the glasses almost making me burst into song - "Megha re megha re..." I MUST work out now and reduce my BMI - guess that's the only solution on sweating.

2. Slightly less # of desired shots (#9 and #10) than what I shoot normalli in recent times - 25/40. Not bad considering my overall situation. I finished a litre of Plain Water and another litre of Electral Water. Heart beat stayed put 69-72 all through. No palpitations - sweating was purely temperature related.

3. Chose new pellets deliberately - Master Shot Green Box for Competitive shooters. While they are lighter they do not group well and "fly". Interestingly they landed better at Savarkar in cooler a/c air while went bonkers in the hot and humid environs of PTKS. Yellow box pellets are better suited for my AP apart from RWS R-10. Sorry went into experimenting mode simply because there should be no surprises at GVM. Serves me right. Closer observation back home now, revealed slight "wings" - no wonder they "flew" aided by the thermals in that basement.

4. I do not expect below 340. I know it sounds a bit shameless but honest - can not do much when my sweat pours... in buckets.

5. Going there again day after tomorrow for AR OS. Received the delivery of my Pegasus today - want to try it out there. Not enough time to break in. Again, I confess, I am shooting for fun here, so that I get a bit serious at the main event. SIgning off now.

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Re: Tips on Pistol Shooting

Post by jitu sati » Wed Oct 24, 2012 11:50 am

hey hvj and tir
i have learnt the lesson in NZ. i am completely concentrating on the SOA now. the best part is i am enjoying the feeling of success in repeating the SOA. when i do it one after another four 4 shots it really gives me a high. i dont care where the shot s are landing nor what is the score. this is really reducing the tension while practising and yesterday when i did two cards 20 shots each with the SOA and 4 shot cycle i was overjoyed to see at the end of the session that both cards had a tight group in the nine ring. i tell you sir , i could not have been happier. the SOA % was also appreciably better and the overall enjoyment of the shoot was really great. so now on i am going to concentrate on repeating this enjoyment every time i shoot. rest will take care of itself

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Re: Tips on Pistol Shooting

Post by tirpassion » Wed Oct 24, 2012 2:24 pm

i tell you sir , i could not have been happier. the SOA % was also appreciably better and the overall enjoyment of the shoot was really great. so now on i am going to concentrate on repeating this enjoyment every time i shoot. rest will take care of itself
That is pleasure and confidence at the same time. What more can we expect? Hat's off jitu!!!

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Re: Tips on Pistol Shooting

Post by airgun_novice » Wed Oct 24, 2012 2:44 pm

jitu sati wrote:hey hvj and tir
i have learnt the lesson in NZ. i am completely concentrating on the SOA now. the best part is i am enjoying the feeling of success in repeating the SOA. when i do it one after another four 4 shots it really gives me a high. i dont care where the shot s are landing nor what is the score. this is really reducing the tension while practising and yesterday when i did two cards 20 shots each with the SOA and 4 shot cycle i was overjoyed to see at the end of the session that both cards had a tight group in the nine ring. i tell you sir , i could not have been happier. the SOA % was also appreciably better and the overall enjoyment of the shoot was really great. so now on i am going to concentrate on repeating this enjoyment every time i shoot. rest will take care of itself
:clap: :cheering: :clap:
Yes Jitu, I agree/ I found out too that just concentrating on SOA is like opening a door to a new world of AP shooting. And there is also a cyclical relationship of SATISFACTION-> CONFIDENCE-> SATISFACTION. Thanks to guruji & tirpassion.

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Re: Tips on Pistol Shooting

Post by hvj1 » Wed Oct 24, 2012 7:50 pm

jitu sati wrote:hey hvj and tir
i have learnt the lesson in NZ. i am completely concentrating on the SOA now. the best part is i am enjoying the feeling of success in repeating the SOA. when i do it one after another four 4 shots it really gives me a high. i dont care where the shot s are landing nor what is the score. this is really reducing the tension while practising and yesterday when i did two cards 20 shots each with the SOA and 4 shot cycle i was overjoyed to see at the end of the session that both cards had a tight group in the nine ring. i tell you sir , i could not have been happier. the SOA % was also appreciably better and the overall enjoyment of the shoot was really great. so now on i am going to concentrate on repeating this enjoyment every time i shoot. rest will take care of itself
:clap:
:cheers:
I expect all of you out there to experience what Jitu has gone through. It is not at all easy. Requires tremendous self discipline initially. But as a senior Army Officer,he has displayed to all, the stuff these guys are made off.

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Re: Tips on Pistol Shooting

Post by jitu sati » Wed Oct 24, 2012 8:32 pm

thx all for encouraging me. one thing i want to ask the gurujan. how many shots should one take as sighters in the comp. what i have noticed in the prac is that after the dry fires when one starts initially the shot gun pattern tends to appear in the first few shots which progressively reduces. so the question; what do you suggest is the ideal No of sighter shots? i am sure one can take many. but is that desirable. as i had written earlier i had completed 10 sighters and 40 comp shots and yet there were 35 minutes still left. so time is not the problem especially in the electronic range. so sirs pl advice

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