Old Indian made ammo

[penpusher]

[mundaire]

Wow penpusher! Where in the world did you get those from?! Dunno, but seems like they should have some collectors value to them....

Cheers!
Abhijeet

[mehulkamdar]

There are cartridge collectors who would pay a very good price for those cartridges in the condition that they are in. Lovely find, penpusher!

Cheers!

[Mack The Knife]

Now that is something. Excellent find.

Mind if I copy the pic to my comp?

Mack The Knife

[Grumpy]

It has always bemused me how badly formed and creased old .577 brass was - the chamber dimensions can`t have been critical.
VERY collectible and in super condition. Definitely an exceptional find penpusher.

[penpusher]

Sorry if I created the impression that I have the pack I posted the photo as I found it interesting and wanted to share it with other members.In any case,even if I had found this pack of cartridges,as per law,I cn't possess them unless I have a licensed firearm of that very caliber.Which I don't.The photo is at http://64.177.205.5/martini/cartpack.jpg(scroll down to Miscellaneous Martini and then click on Martini-Henry 577/450 1899 Issue Package).Sorry again for the misunderstanding..Will be more clear about such things in my future posts

penpusher

[art_collector]

Hi,

Wud anyone be able to tell why this ammunition has a paper packing in the front.( The white strip in the picture u have posted ) I have seen this ammunition with a dealer. Strangely the brass tube is extremely soft unlike todays rifle ammo. U press it with ur thumb and it gets deformed.

AC

[Grumpy]

Ah well, never mind. Nice to see anyway.
I wasn`t aware that military ammunition was manufactured in India at that date.

[penpusher]

Grumpy,

The Kirkee bit came as a surprise to me as well considering the vintage of the ammo.However as per the Indian Ministry of Defence web site (http://mod.nic.in/product&supp/body1.htm ) the Inspectorate of the Ammunition Factory,Kirkee was set up in 1869.

penpusher

[penpusher]

Wud anyone be able to tell why this ammunition has a paper packing in the front.( The white strip in the picture u have posted )

That's a paper patch.

penpusher

[eljefe]

Abhijeet/Sanjay/Dev
As per our last discussion, this is the ammo that caused the P bore and Non P bore furore.
After the Sudan uprising in 1890's, the Brits banned this Martinin ammo for all their dominions and for the fisrt time started a policy of P bore and Non P bore.
However, some writings of Corbett mention that these 450 martini rifles were issued to Cadet Corps and such other volunteer/auxillary bodies in India.
I wouldnt be surprised if this remains on the P bore list in India...
AC-paper patched bullets were in vogue for a while, to help take up the possibly sloppy tolerances-both in ammo and rifles.
Best
Axx

[penpusher]

I wouldnt be surprised if this remains on the P bore list in India

It's not.

penpusher

[mundaire]

Abhijeet/Sanjay/Dev
As per our last discussion, this is the ammo that caused the P bore and Non P bore furore.
After the Sudan uprising in 1890's, the Brits banned this Martinin ammo for all their dominions and for the fisrt time started a policy of P bore and Non P bore.
However, some writings of Corbett mention that these 450 martini rifles were issued to Cadet Corps and such other volunteer/auxillary bodies in India.
I wouldn't be surprised if this remains on the P bore list in India...
AC-paper patched bullets were in vogue for a while, to help take up the possibly sloppy tolerances-both in ammo and rifles.
Best
Axx

Yep, quite a coincidence that... saw the picture posted here soon after our discussion on the topic!

Good to hear that it is not on the PB list... but is ammo for this readily available? It's a BP round, so old ammo, even if available would probably be quite unusable... or does BP "keep" for long periods?

Does anyone know what happened to the old surplus rifles? Were they auctioned off/ issued or are they rotting away in govt. armouries?

Cheers!
Abhijeet

[art_collector]

Bulk of the rifles have must been sold in govt auctions..a lot of 577 bore rifles have been exported in the 70 s.
I doubt anyone in India would have even thought of buying these rifles for use specially when imports were permitted.
Its only in the present scenario where imports are banned, the only bores available are 315 & .22 and other rifles are beyond the reach of most people that all such obsolete bores sell.
May be these rifles would have been useful now
(This post is just a opinion and I have really no clue what soever as to what happenned to these old rifles)

AC

[Grumpy]

There are still a good number of .577 and .577/.450 Martini Henry rifles in the UK.
The Australian company Bertram make brass for both calibres and Kynoch produce ammunition in both calibres ( using Bertram brass. ) Cheap it ain`t !

".577/450 Martini Henry

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This cartridge was adopted in 1871 by the British military for use in the Martini-Henry single shot falling block rifles. Like the Snider it was originally a coiled brass case which after a few years was changed to the drawn type. It was also a popular sporting round which has been loaded with both black and smokeless powder."

A 480 gr bullet fired from a 33" barrel for a MV of 1350 fps, ME 1945 ft lbs.
1201 fps, 1535 ft lbs @ 100 yards.

( Courtesy of Kynoch Ltd. )