Battle of Haifa and the Teen Murti

[desertranger]

Hello all!
Great article and very inspiring indeed.
Taking nothing away from these great men of honor and their contribution BUT not at the expense of sounding sarcastic or anything....... How i wish that some of these great Rulers,warriors ,soldiers had fought against the British rather than on behalf OR for the Brits......FOOD FOR THOUGHT!!

cHEERS AND HV A NICE DAY...

[xl_target]

Hello all!
Great article and very inspiring indeed.
Taking nothing away from these great men of honor and their contribution BUT not at the expense of sounding sarcastic or anything....... How i wish that some of these great Rulers,warriors ,soldiers had fought against the British rather than on behalf OR for the Brits......FOOD FOR THOUGHT!!

cHEERS AND HV A NICE DAY...

Before the East India Company started making Inroads into India, it consisted of a bunch of diverse kingdoms and principalities that were often at odds with each other. Many of the rulers of local principalities did fight against the British when they first came to India. Once defeated, some were allowed to retain their kingdoms if they swore fealty to the British. When the British built up the Indian Army (at the time) they reaped the benefits of a first class soldiery. While the East India Company might have been a little cavalier about its treatment of the Indians under their rule; after the Mutiny, the Queens men treated India better than most of the colonies out there. When soldiers took service with the British, they swore an oath to them. The keeping of that oath, which is important to men of honor, is what kept most of those soldiers that you talk about from fighting the Crown. It really is that simple.

If you want to look at really bad colonial experiences, take a close look at the Belgian and German colonies in Africa. The British built roads, railways, hospitals, schools, colleges, etc. in India and that is why after Independence, we had a chance at being a successful state. While being a subjected people is not especially nice, the infrastructure left behind by the British is one of the reasons that India stands where it does today, at least in respect to education and technology. Without education and some organization in society, the technology would not have followed.

This is probably not a popular view in India today but it is factually closer to the truth than many will admit.

[Safarigent]

That is the ultimate irony which we indians collectively refuse to see.
We are martial races, we are an ancient society filled with illustrious warriors and rulers and kingdoms!
Yet a merchant nation came and whipped us all into submission and worse; made us fight their wars, and even worse, made us fight one another!
I think it is the brits who should be proud of all that history, not us indians!
Not that i have a unidimensional view of our history, still.....
I will withold further comments to prepare myself for the coming storm!
Gotta love being the devils advocate sometimes.
):)

[desertranger]

Hello all!
Great article and very inspiring indeed.
Taking nothing away from these great men of honor and their contribution BUT not at the expense of sounding sarcastic or anything....... How i wish that some of these great Rulers,warriors ,soldiers had fought against the British rather than on behalf OR for the Brits......FOOD FOR THOUGHT!!

cHEERS AND HV A NICE DAY...

Before the East India Company started making Inroads into India, it consisted of a bunch of diverse kingdoms and principalities that were often at odds with each other. Many of the rulers of local principalities did fight against the British when they first came to India. Once defeated, some were allowed to retain their kingdoms if they swore fealty to the British. When the British built up the Indian Army (at the time) they reaped the benefits of a first class soldiery. While the East India Company might have been a little cavalier about its treatment of the Indians under their rule; after the Mutiny, the Queens men treated India better than most of the colonies out there. When soldiers took service with the British, they swore an oath to them. The keeping of that oath, which is important to men of honor, is what kept most of those soldiers that you talk about from fighting the Crown. It really is that simple.

If you want to look at really bad colonial experiences, take a close look at the Belgian and German colonies in Africa. The British built roads, railways, hospitals, schools, colleges, etc. in India and that is why after Independence, we had a chance at being a successful state. While being a subjected people is not especially nice, the infrastructure left behind by the British is one of the reasons that India stands where it does today, at least in respect to education and technology. Without education and some organization in society, the technology would not have followed.

This is probably not a popular view in India today but it is factually closer to the truth than many will admit.

All i would say is that the point of view expressed ABOVE is shared by many so called "Brown Sahibs" in our country

[mundaire]

All i would say is that the point of view expressed ABOVE is shared by many so called "Brown Sahibs" in our country

You've already taken the discussion OT and pushed it into the realm of non-gun/shooting related politics, don't compound your error by insulting a fellow member. If you don't have an intelligent response, then as the wise say - it is better to be silent and let people wonder if you are a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt!

Cheers!
Abhijeet

[winnie_the_pooh]

Prashant,

Thank you for posting this.I would say,you make some of the most interesting posts here.

As for the fellows who rue the coming of the English,I would just say this,but for them,the Indian sub-continent would have looked a lot like Europe.

[timmy]

Prashantji, thank you so much for sharing this with us. I read it eagerly and with great interest, and will reread it several times. Truly an inspiring story of bravery from a number of perspectives, as other posters have pointed out. Certainly, other issues tie into this in various ways, and I have thought about them with respect to Indian history, and also in other contexts related to fighting men in times of war. Other examples that come to mind would be: Native Americans fighting for the USA, the record of New Mexicans fighting under white officers in the Battle of Bataan, African Americans in US wars, and the 442nd Nisei Japanese Americans fighting for the USA in Europe while their families were in concentration camps at home.

But I don't think that the main thrust of the post is about that. I very much enjoyed thinking about these brave men fighting against odds and succeeding because of their resourcefulness, courage, and unwillingness to be deterred in the face of adversity.

"Suicidal"? No, I don't think so. I've read a lot about this in the context of the Japanese Kamikaze attacks in WW2, and how this differed so much in thought, but perhaps not in results, with American actions, such as the attack of the US Navy torpedo bombers on the Japanese carriers at Midway. The results were the same, but the idea was always that the Americans had a chance, although a small one, to survive, where this was not part of the Japanese thought.

There is a big difference. I think that, while the Japanese willingness to die gave them certain advantages, in the end and overall, it worked against them. More or less as Patton said, "I don't want you to die for your country, I want you to make the other SOB die for his."

I think it is a greater thing to fight for life, rather than to resign one's self to death, although I will not question anyone's bravery in this regard.

Anyway, truly an inspiring story, and thank you for sharing it, Prashantji.

[winnie_the_pooh]

Timmy,

Bravery in the face of death without consideration for ones safety,is what should be honoured and is, in context of this memorial. We celebrate the bravery of the courageous and not the insanity of the fanatics.

[rcdoma]

Very touching story, thanks for sharing this with us Prashant.

[airgun_novice]

Timmy, nicely worded and erudite exposition of objective thoughts. Feelings and observation do matter - and yours are in tune with Prashant Singh's note-worthy post.

[goodboy_mentor]

Indeed a very interesting post by Prashantji! I was reading it again and again trying to visualize the battle scene.

How i wish that some of these great Rulers,warriors ,soldiers had fought against the British rather than on behalf OR for the Brits......FOOD FOR THOUGHT!!

They did indeed fight but as usual were defeated mostly due to the incompetence of their leaders, treachery and conspiracies of their own men. In some cases even giving away the complete and detailed battle plans with sketches to the East India Company. For example like the incidents mentioned in this link http://www.tribuneindia.com/2002/20020113/edit.htm#1

The list of military disasters suffered by the British in India is long, but most of these were rationalized by British military historians. The following link may provide you some "food for thought" http://orbat.com/site/history/historica ... a1849.html

Before the East India Company started making Inroads into India, it consisted of a bunch of diverse kingdoms and principalities that were often at odds with each other.

I would like to add that not only before East India Company, rather all through the known history of this subcontinent, it was composed of various political nations and nationalities ruling their respective areas of influence. It was only during minuscule time periods in history when this sub continent was under the forcible rule of some imperial ruler, it was ruled as a single entity. These periods that come to my mind, were during the rule of Ashoka, Alaudin Khilji, Aurangzeb and the British rule. Rest of the period in the history, this sub continent was ruled by independent rulers.

Many of the rulers of local principalities did fight against the British when they first came to India.

I agree and would like to add that in most of the cases they were defeated by the conspiracies and treacheries of their own men who colluded with the British.

[xl_target]

[quote=""desertranger"]
All i would say is that the point of view expressed ABOVE is shared by many so called "Brown Sahibs" in our country[/quote]

Well sir,
If you can refrain from name calling, I would be more than happy to discuss this with you in another thread so as not to hijack this one. Since you imply that my statements are false, before we go any further, I'm wondering if you can disprove (with documented facts) any of the statements that I made?

Prashant,
If you get a chance, could you post photos of the individual Sowars?
Thanks.

[Biren]

Those days soldiers fought for the color & their Co... Jodhpur lancers must have followed the same. Major Dalpat Singh and color of Jodhpur lancers

Cheers
Biren

[desertranger]

[quote=""desertranger"]
All i would say is that the point of view expressed ABOVE is shared by many so called "Brown Sahibs" in our country

Well sir,
If you can refrain from name calling, I would be more than happy to discuss this with you in another thread so as not to hijack this one. Since you imply that my statements are false, before we go any further, I'm wondering if you can disprove (with documented facts) any of the statements that I made?

Prashant,
If you get a chance, could you post photos of the individual Sowars?
Thanks.[/quote]

Sir,the fact remains that the British systematically looted our nation for many years but than again as has been pointed out,that is another topic for discussion.Secondly Sir Pratap is a much revered and respected figure/personality in Rajasthan and particularly in Marwar so i suggest you start a thread on him and finally since today is second october, let us all pay homage to the father of the nation on his birth anniversary.
Over and out!

[gladiatorgarg]

BRAVO mr prashant singh ur account, even if its a copy is enlightening,since i have crossed this particular place so many times but did not stop to visit it even once, now im resolute to do so,& so far our civilian govt's are concerned they r more busy in destroying this country's youth & rich martial heritage rather than preserve them, since it suits to run their own political agenda & safeguard their dynasty, we in the armed forces are treated nothing better than glorified security guards throwing away precious life for nothing...again its a beautiful effort please keep it up