Riots in Mumbai, Police shoot dead Two.Scores injured.

[Skyman]

As you probably know by now, a protest in Mumbai took an ugly turn with the cops lathicharging, gassing and finally opening fire on a crowd.All in the space of an hour.This begs the question- is it right for cops to shoot people? You could be in the crowd and get shot for no reason other than bad luck.

Also, if you were in the crowd with family and friends and had to keep yourselves safe from a mob bent on hurting someone, what approach to take? Seeing you can't pull a gun, knife or other such tactical options without serious consequences, can't maneuver because of the crowd, and can't diffuse the situation.....this has me stumped.

Any thoughts?

[Katana]

Whatever happened to all that hype about police modernisation? I'm sure the 2 dead would have been felled by .303 bullets. Using PA shotguns(which IOF purportedly supplied to police forces) and rubber shot would have been enough.

Was there any use of water cannons?

[essdee1972]

Reports indicate the cops were (as usual) caught on the backfoot. They didn't react to initial reports, and finally, when the SHTF, they opened fire. In this case, their lack of training was beneficial in that "only" 2 people were killed.

Skyman, you hit it on the button. Run, probably, and of course, pray! Not many options left in that situation.

[Skyman]

I have decided to do this from now on- Whenever i read about a crime incident in the papers, i should think about what i would/should have done, and prepare accordingly.Surprising the number of scenarios that you can prepare for by reading the papers.

God Forbid there are religious riots as there have been in the past, it will degenerate into kill or be killed, the partition aftermath being a case point.How will we fend for ourselves i wonder.

[kalashnikovcult]

while in college i was caught in a riot .. was running ..when the crpf mistook me for a rioter..they spanked my butt , with those strong lathis they have ..much better than the mumbai policemen ,the bruises which took days to heal and was detained..luckily i had i was a member of a politcal party which was ruling so was set free after 4-5 hours.

[Skyman]

Nothing quite as humiliating as being spanked in public is it? These cops with lathis take special please in spanking ladies, based on witnessing such incidents.

[SYED833]

When you are in a mob it becomes real hard for the cops to tell who's who..Best defense is to not be there,if you are,then run, you definitely can't pull a gun , knife , club, or any thing at the mob..I was in a mob suitiation in chennai while I was studying there..Inter collage fight spilled on to the road,with a couple of busses burning..
I bugged out real fast once the RAF showed up..Didnt go well for a couple of my friends..
Regards
Syed

[goodboy_mentor]

Best defense is to not be there,if you are,then run

Exactly. One should use his common sense to stay far away from a crowd that potential has to go berserk and violent due to the kind of emotional or volatile topic being discussed there.

While dealing with a crowd that has gone berserk and violent, the main aim of police is to disperse the crowd as quickly as possible. Then they simply start attacking whoever comes in front of them. Once I had gone to see a football match and the crowd became violent. The mounted Police(mounted on horses) was ordered to do lathi charge. You cannot imagine the scene! The mounted Police gone berserk, chasing and caning mercilessly anyone and everyone. In order to avoid being caned by the chasing mounted Police, everyone ran like Olympic sprint champions.

[Skyman]

Speaking of football, i have to say, nothing quite like fighting football fans.I have seen all kinds of nonsense being done by supporters in my time.Those were the days.

Back to topic, i think the chaos factor is underestimated by people.Only people who have been there know how fast things get dangerous, and pure luck determines whether you make it or not.And god help you if you are injured or out of shape.

[supershaji]

God Forbid there are religious riots as there have been in the past, it will degenerate into kill or be killed, the partition aftermath being a case point.

a delayed, but a worthwhile correction -

its NEVER a "religious" riot, but always a COMMUNAL one.

We are a sovereign state, its a shame we dont behave like ONE community.

[Skyman]

What is the difference between a religious and a communal riot? I meant to say people of different faiths clash but if there is a deeper meaning i would like to know.

[airgun_novice]

What is the difference between a religious and a communal riot? I meant to say people of different faiths clash but if there is a deeper meaning i would like to know.

My 2 cents worth of thoughts -

What is "faith" ? Religion ? Set of beliefs ? Set of values ? So if X has faith in concept of equality and fraternity shouldn't that over-ride any other set of values ? I have a great faith in "democracy"; in India it simply does not justify my faith in it. Now what is communal and what is religious riot ? The very fact that one would use "religious" negates the noun of "riot" - which religion on this planet encourages riots, as in fighting when emotions get imbalanced and tempers get super-charged ?

Similarly, "communal" riot is also non-existent - if we are one community, like supershaji rightly pointed out, a riot is non-existent. After all, "the Man" being a gregarious animal has the natural need for community - so why puncture His own Support System on a general or generic whim every now and then ? Thus in short, both the concepts are "mythya-maya", i.e. illusory and mere creations of entities with vested interests.

But to consider it crassly - just like many other things in "religion" neither party understands fully why he is doing it and yet does it simply because he thinks that riot is what is good for his religion or community.
Incidentally, the word "riot" derives from "ryaat" meaning general populace or citizenry. British in their tax or other official communication used that spelling exactly. So in short no religious "riot" or a community-oriented "riot" will get down into any *riot*.

[brihacharan]

[quote="airgun_novice"][quote="Skyman"]What is the difference between a religious and a communal riot? I meant to say Thus in short, both the concepts are "mythya-maya", i.e. illusory and mere creations of entities with vested interests.

But to consider it crassly - just like many other things in "religion" neither party understands fully why he is doing it and yet does
it's simply because he thinks that riot is what is good for his religion or community.


> FAITH since time immemorial has been used by rulers to establish control over the populace
> A classic example arises from what the Roman Governor Pontius Pilate wrote in his report to the Powers at Rome after the crucifixion of Christ....
> There exists in this land a "Power Mightier Than the Sword" it's called "FAITH"
> The rest is there for all of us to know!
> Unscrupulous politicians have since used this to usurp power to their sinister advantage
Briha

[supershaji]

What is the difference between a religious and a communal riot? I meant to say people of different faiths clash but if there is a deeper meaning i would like to know.

A "religious riot"?

What does religion have to do with a riot / genocide / pogrom?

Infact, I am certian that all religions only forbid such things.

On the other hand, religion will order you to protect yourselves from any oppression, and use full force if need arises.

That's what this forum is all about in my opinion, rights to arms, viz. rights to self defence.

Communal disharmony & conflict, on the other hand, is the product of political interest in order to "divide and rule", you can see it's manifestation in our own society. We have been indoctrinated to the extent that we aggressively choose to believe blatant lies told us, without question, and reject the truth without consideration.

We oppress ourselves with our own deliberate ignorance and inaction to empower ourselves with true knowledge.

As I said before, as Indians, we are ONE community, a very diverse one. A riot in our divided attitudes is what is needed to eradicate this corruption, as well as our compliance with it.

A comprehensive self-study & basic understanding of religion with give you your answer to your question.

Forgive me if my correction has confused you, but it was intended to raise the difference.

[Skyman]

Let us see.

What does religion have to do with a riot / genocide / pogrom?

Why were the Jews gassed? Because people were made to believe they were whatever.Thus, all Jews were believed to possess and exhibit certain traits.Regardless of the facts.And they were all killed.

On the other hand, religion will order you to protect yourselves from any oppression, and use full force if need arises.

False.Buddhism for instance does not.

FAITH since time immemorial has been used by rulers to establish control over the populace

This is correct, and the reason religion and faith are used to fight.The crusades were fought in the name of God.In reality, men wanted wealth and power.God was a justification.

But to consider it crassly - just like many other things in "religion" neither party understands fully why he is doing it and yet does
it's simply because he thinks that riot is what is good for his religion or community.

Well put AGN!! Once again, this is why such riots are called " Communal " or " Religious ".Christians were attacked in Orissa because the attackers believed them to be a threat to their own community and people.That they were mostly laborers was ignored.

I am neither confused nor confounded by the niceties people use to justify death dealing.