How many?

[winnie_the_pooh]

Has any one come across any sort of information anywhere as to how many rounds a person needs to fire as a bare minimum in a year

a)to be proficient in the use of a firearm and

b) to gain familiarity with a firearm to ensure its safe handling

[xl_target]

I don't think anything is written in stone. It would depend on the person and and the desire to perform, I guess.

a)to be proficient in the use of a firearm and

Shooting is a perishable skill and obviously the more you do it, the better you will be at it. I can tell when I haven't shot my handguns for a while. My group size shows that too. If it hasn't been too long, it will take me 20-30 rounds to get back some of the ease and smoothness that I feel. Also some days I just can't seem to do anything right and somedays everything flows. Unfortunately, the good days are rarer than the bad days.

One way to get around it is dry firing. Some of the pro's who shoot tens of thousands of rounds every year say that they spend half their time dry firing. HVJ1 also addressed this issue of visualizing the gun on the target.
A good reference: http://grayguns.com/dry-fire-secrets-of-the-pros/ Bruce Gray is a well known gunsmith, competitor and instructor. The only caveat would be that some guns do not lend themselves to dry firing. Either way, I always use snap caps when I dry fire.

b) to gain familiarity with a firearm to ensure its safe handling

The more you handle your gun, the more familiar you will be with. I have to keep repeating the mantra of the four rules to myself. Even then once I am done shooting a string, I occasionally catch myself with the barrel of the empty gun not pointed downrange. Getting used to a gun with a decocker, I would automatically decock the empty gun and return it to my holster at the range. However at an IDPA shoot, the range master wants you to leave your gun open till he can inspect it for an empty chamber. The same thing happens at our club's bowling pin shoots. I have to remember where I am and conform to that venue's safe gun handling rules. When I am carrying concealed, I will keep the gun in the holster at all times. If I have to go into a place where carry is prohibited, I remove gun and holster as one piece. When I come out of that place, I will reinsert the gun/ holster combo into my waistband. When I am not at a range, I will try to keep any gun handling of a loaded gun to a minimum. When I am cleaning it, I will unload the gun and check the chamber. If I am interrupted for any reason and I put the gun down, I will check the chamber again before I resume.

It is easy to become complacent and I have to keep reminding myself of the four rules. These are my opinions and I sure a different person would have a different opinion so take it for what it is worth.

[nagarifle]

i agree that shooting is a skill fading sport, more you do it the better you get sort of thing. as for ammo spent? never heard of a fixed number needed. Jeff COPPER I think spent over 20k in the year, can someone correct me on this as not sure of the figure. your avarge INDIAN JAWAN gets to spend what some 500 or less, the police 0-20

[Vineet]

Read somewhere that its compulsory for secret service agents in US to shoot once every three months.

[goodboy_mentor]

Has any one come across any sort of information anywhere as to how many rounds a person needs to fire as a bare minimum in a year

a)to be proficient in the use of a firearm and

b) to gain familiarity with a firearm to ensure its safe handling

For this we need to find out how many rounds bare minimum are required to be fired as practice in proficiency for elite law enforcement agencies in our country like NSG etc.

[winnie_the_pooh]

This is int he context of the 50 round ammo limit imposed by the MHA and is to be used for filling an RTI application. I could not find anything on the net.

[goodboy_mentor]

Yes that is exactly why I mentioned NSG and not local police. For the purpose of RTI related to 50 rounds you can do RTI to MHA, get copies of all documents related to reaching this decision of magic number of 50 rounds. Once you get the RTI reply, next course of action can be decided then.

[YogiBear]

Aloha,

A lot of times, I just keep shooting until I 'm out of ammo or I get tired, then I pack up and go home.

Usually several 100s of handgun and at least 100 rifle, depending on rifle caliber and power factor.

There are times the club will have a BBQ picnic at the range for lunch.

I think the Wife enjoys the company and food most. She'll shoot a "few" rounds and retire with the

rest of the girls, eat and chat.

[Skyman]

I wonder if law enforcement issued guns ever get a proper break in? A few hundred rounds are needed for a proper break in. Civilian guns sure don't get that treatment.

[xl_target]

I wonder if law enforcement issued guns ever get a proper break in? A few hundred rounds are needed for a proper break in. Civilian guns sure don't get that treatment.

Not necessarily Skyman. Some manufacturers use that as a copout. A properly finished gun made with today's CNC machines should require no break in. None of my guns have required a break-in, including my cheap 10/22's.

Many people have their own ideas about break-in and reliability. You will often see a minimum of 250 rounds trouble free stated on gun forums for a carry weapon but there is no hard and fast rule about that. It's just what some posters feel comfortable with. For my own satisfaction, i will run several hundred rounds through a handgun before I am satisfied that it is reliable. Most guns made today require no break-in. Handguns like Glocks, XD's, SR9's, CZ's etc usually function fine right out of the box. Unfortunately many people buy a gun and start shooting it right away. It is usually a good idea to clean all the packing grease and preservative out of the gun before you start shooting. Custom made guns with very tight tolerances will sometimes require a break-in period.

I should also mention that most police departments in the US require their officers to qualify once or twice a year. Usually it is 50 rounds to 100 rounds per year. If an individual officer wants to shoot more than that, often they will have to pay for the ammo out of their own pockets.

[Skyman]

When i say break in, i mean both ways.The gun and the man.For example, high horsepower motorcycles can be flogged right off the gate, but manufacturers advice caution the first thousand miles or so, just so that you don't crash at high speeds.

There were reports that said cops, i forget where, were given a surprise shooting drill, and their shots didn't even hit the target sheet!!! Out of 70 odd men, this happened to 60 odd cops ( In India ).

Thank you for your insight as usual.Say, how are sigs and rugers right out of the box?

[winnie_the_pooh]

Gentlemen,thank you for your replies to my query.

[goodboy_mentor]

For this we need to find out how many rounds bare minimum are required to be fired as practice in proficiency for elite law enforcement agencies in our country like NSG etc.

We have the answer below:

GOVERNMENT OF INDIA
MINISTRY OF HOME AFFAIRS
LOK SABHA
UNSTARRED QUESTION NO 808
ANSWERED ON 14.08.2012
STRENGTH OF NSG
808 . Shri MANISH TEWARI

Will the Minister of HOME AFFAIRS be pleased to state:-


(a) whether the Government is contemplating to reduce the strength of the National Security Guard (NSG) Force from 5000 to 2500 hundred commandos;

(b) if so, the reasons therefor;

(c) whether downsizing would have an impact on the number of NSG commandos stationed at NSG hubs proposed to be maintained across the country;

(d) if so, the details thereof;

(e) the current break-up of total number of NSG commandos deployed on personal security duties;

(f) whether NSG commandos are firing less then 30 rounds per week at their headquarters in Manesar and in Mumbai hub as opposed to 90 rounds per week earlier; and

(g) if so, the reasons for reduction in training resources?
ANSWER

MINISTER OF STATE IN THE MINISTRY OF HOME AFFAIRS (SHRI JITENDRA SINGH)

(a) & (b): At present there is no proposal to reduce the sanctioned strength of NSG.

(c) & (d): Does not arise in view of the reply given to part (a) and (b) above.

(e): NSG is providing mobile security cover to Z+ category PPs. Presently it is providing security cover to 15 PPs. The total deployment of personnel for VIP duties is 512 including adm support.

(f): The Commandos are carrying out weekly firing practice of 90 rounds with their primary/secondary weapons at Manesar as well as Mumbai Hub.

(g): Does not arise in view of the reply given to part (f) above.

Source Lok Sabha website http://164.100.47.132/LssNew/psearch/QR ... ref=125740

[manshah007]

Well said SKYMAN, I once had an opportunity to visit police shooting range in naigaon Dadar, mumbai. IT was a long concrete stucture about 25 yards in length 12 feet wide & height of 10 feet. It was used for used for small weapon training, i presume, where cops practice their skill of using firearms. The training and practice or lack of it made me think, for what i saw was THE FULL CEILING & SIDE WALLS WERE RIDDLED WITH BULLET MARKS STARTING FROM MAYBE 2 YARDS LENGTH from firing position. so it is for you all to decide what to expect in case of any adverse situation. Yes i did not expect national or international level of shooting but atleast decent shots somewhere near the target and not shots fired at ceiling. This observation is not intended to demean or show disrespect to anyone in forces but to bring up the point that we the public rely on cops for our safety and their training should not be compromised by red tapeism or other political interference!

[timmy]

My personal observation regarding shooting skills iis represented by analogies:

Shooting a rifle is like riding a bicycle: once you have learned how, you can go awhile without having done it, and when you try it again, your first few attempts may be a bit wobbly, but you will soon get back into the groove.

Shooting a handgun is like playing billiards: you may have done a lot of it in the past, but if you take it up again after a long layoff, you will find yourself knowing what to do, but unable to make it happen without more practice.

Shooting a shotgun, I cannot comment about. I cannot chew gum and walk at the same time, and shotgun skills are something I have never learned properly.

But in answer to Winnie's question, I think the individual and the firearm do matter, as does the intended use, but for a handgun, if a person is reasonably proficient to begin with, 50 rounds a month might be enough to keep somewhat of an edge.