Full metal jacket vs soft point

[.338 lapua]

Hello guys,

I recently purchased some ammo for the IOF .30-06 from Mumbai and Kolhapur a mix of sellier and bellot soft point and Fmj,however when I was buying the Fmj the dealer said that the fmj is rarely purchased as it tends to eat up the rifling faster.I know i do not have the privilege to shoot thousands of rounds a year but am just curious to know if that is true.If our gurus can shed some light on this.

Regard's

[Baljit]

i use most of the time FMJ in 7.62 x 39 , i did not notice anything in rifling and i shoot lot's ammo i mean lot's .i don't know why he said that.


Baljit

[Hammerhead]

Because the dealer is getting more commission out of soft points and a bit expensive than fmj - Haji

[YouTube][/YouTube]

[Vineet]

The S&B FMJ is slightly thicker than the S&B soft point. This can be seen by inserting both the cartridge, one at a time, into the muzzle end of the rifle, like this

IMG_3360.JPG

When you compare both the bullets , you will notice that FMJ is slightly thicker than the soft point. Being thicker it will eat up rifling faster.

The reason why FMJ from S&B are thicker, is may be because it is a training ammo. In training, lots of rounds need to be fired, which wears the rifling and maybe S&B makes the FMJ thicker to compensate the rifling wear.
Here is the link which says FMJ from S&B are the training ammo and are disposable in bulk package. http://www.sellier-bellot.cz/rifle-ammu ... 7&view=all

[Vikram]

.338Lapua,

Simple :

A .30/06 FMJ Cartridge





A .30/06 Soft-point cartridge




What do you see? The soft-point is still encased in a metal jacket and is not any softer than an FMJ.The amount of contact of the metal jacket is same with both,and the steel or coper jacket of an FMJ is still softer than the barrel steel, AFAIK.



Best-
Vikram

[TwoRivers]

The S&B FMJ is slightly thicker than the S&B soft point. This can be seen by inserting both the cartridge, one at a time, into the muzzle end of the rifle, like this

IMG_3360.JPG

When you compare both the bullets , you will notice that FMJ is slightly thicker than the soft point. Being thicker it will eat up rifling faster.

The reason why FMJ from S&B are thicker, is may be because it is a training ammo. In training, lots of rounds need to be fired, which wears the rifling and maybe S&B makes the FMJ thicker to compensate the rifling wear.
Here is the link which says FMJ from S&B are the training ammo and are disposable in bulk package. http://www.sellier-bellot.cz/rifle-ammu ... 7&view=all

Nonsense. The only way you can make any determination is by measuring the bullets with a micrometer at their full diameter, not by inserting them into the muzzle of a rifle. Nor do bullets eat up rifling. Bores get worn, eroded, at the thoat by hot gas; and at the muzzle by improper use of a cleaning rod.

Your second paragraph is a winner. To compensate for rifling wear, the bullet is made larger in diameter, which in turn wears the rifling faster?

[Baljit]

Thank you TwoRiver, accually i am waiting for you to ans. this nonsense .

Thank's again

Baljit

[xl_target]

To further elaborate on Two Rivers post.....

In the US, we have SAAMI (Sporting Arms and Ammunition Manufacturers' Institute) that sets the standard dimension for each particular caliber. In Europe, they use CIP (Commission Internationale Permanente pour l'Epreuve des Armes à Feu Portatives) standards. All commercial ammunition manufacturers observer these standards. Any deviation from these standards could be dangerous to the gun and/or the shooter.

S&B most likely follows CIP standards and their 30-06 bullets would have the same diameter whether they are FMJ or JHP. If your dealer is telling you otherwise, he is a liar or his knowledge of firearms is seriously suspect.

Vineet, If your bullet fits down to different depths (into the muzzle), it is because the shape is different. If it fits all the way down into the muzzle easily, then you have a defective gun or defective bullets. In that case the rifling will not engrave the bullet and it wont be stabilized when fired.

SAAMI
CIP

[Baljit]

Again thank you very much XL,you clear the picture for everybody and most importantly to Vineet.I do know the ans. but i don't like to give my ans. because so many guy's don't like me anymore on this site.


Thank's again

Baljit

[Vineet]

I was expecting this, specially from TwoRivers. I knew he is against the bullet test.

Vineet, If your bullet fits down to different depths (into the muzzle), it is because the shape is different.

Can you please elaborate on this. Won't different shapes have different effect on rifiling?

I do know the ans. but i don't like to give my ans. because so many guy's don't like me anymore on this site.

I would like to know your ans. We're all here to learn and discuss. Right or wrong, it sparks good conversation and we all benefit by it.

@.338 lapua, have you try this out? Did you notice any difference in the shapes of FMJ and SP?

[Baljit]

Vineet i send you a PM call me or send me your number , keep it mind everything on recorder.waiting for you call


Baljit

[xl_target]

I was expecting this, specially from TwoRivers. I knew he is against the bullet test.

Vineet, to be perfectly blunt, it is not a valid test of diameter, it just displays a lack of understanding of geometry.

Can you please elaborate on this. Won't different shapes have different effect on rifiling?

It doesn't matter where along its outer surface the rifling grabs the bullet as long as you spin the bullet.

Take a look at the two bullets below. They are both 7mm bullets but they have different shapes, if you insert each one into the muzzle end of the rifle, they will penetrate to different depths. This does not mean that they have different diameters. In fact both these bullets have the exact same diameter. The difference in how far they go into the barrel is only because the ogive (shape of the curve) is different. However, both bullets will grab the rifling and will spin at the same rate when exiting the muzzle.



People use different bullets for different purposes. Target shooter's use wadcutters to make a perfect hole in the paper. Long distance shooters will choose a pointed boat-tailed bullet because they fly further than a round nosed bullet of the same weight. Hunters prefer a round nosed or flat nosed bullet to allow for greater expansion on impact. Many of today's hunting bullets are spire pointed and boat-tailed but have a polymer tip which forces rapid expansion. They combine the advantage of the spire point with the flat nose. I'm being a bit simplistic here because there is a tremendous amount of thought and knowhow that goes into modern bullet construction. Bullets can be tailored for specific purposes. A bullet built for one purpose might not be very suitable for another.

Another point to bring up to the OP; the pointed or FMJ bullet (look at Vikram's photos) will be more aerodynamic than the round nosed bullet. It will fly further and flatter (given the same weight) than the round nosed bullet. This only matters over distance and not at close range. The round nosed bullet with its exposed lead point is designed to open up faster in game so it can dump more energy into the target. However, in India, since you can't hunt and will only be using that .30-06 to shoot paper, you're better off with the FMJ bullet.

[.338 lapua]

[Take a look at the two bullets below. They are both 7mm bullets but they have different shapes, if you insert each one into the muzzle end of the rifle, they will penetrate to different depths. This does not mean that they have different diameters. In fact both these bullets have the exact same diameter. The difference in how far they go into the barrel is only because the ogive (shape of the curve) is different. However, both bullets will grab the rifling and will spin at the same rate when exiting the muzzle.]

Thank you Xl_Target sir completely agree with you the diameter of a bullet cannot change however the thickness of the jacket may vary with different makes of the same caliber,then again when the bullet is loaded in to the chamber and when the bolt is being closed one needs to apply a bit of effort ,so that is where i believe the rifling gets embedded in to the bullet .I would also agree with Mr Haji that a dlr may be making more profits by selling soft nose over fmj's.Vineet ,Vikram,Two rivers,Baljit sir thank you friends for your answer's.

Regard's
Dhiraj.

[Katana]

There is nothing different about the two as far as 'eating up the rifling or bore' is concerned. Both SP and FMJ are the same from S&B and will depreciate the rifling in equal measure.

The reason why dealers talk this way is that SP sells more because of it's take down effect on game. The FMJ, meanwhile, penetrates the tissue and exits on the other side. Obviously, dealers are left with more of the FMJ variety and they want to pass it off quickly and at maybe at a slightly lower price.

[Vikram]

but i don't like to give my ans. because so many guy's don't like me anymore on this site.

Oh,we all like you here,Baljit, and like to see you share your knowledge with us.You need not be disheartened because of an occasional disagreement,etc.


Best-
Vikram