Could the experts tell me if this knife is legal in India?

All Things Sharp and Pointed: compound and crossbows, knives and swords.
User avatar
Priyan
One of Us (Nirvana)
One of Us (Nirvana)
Posts: 416
Joined: Sun Sep 19, 2010 10:49 pm
Location: Assam

Re: Could the experts tell me if this knife is legal in Indi

Post by Priyan » Mon May 07, 2012 10:23 pm

Skyman wrote:Priyan....not that i want to know,but how on earth did you get into the hole for a night?
Was jogging in the morning, forgot that day was 24th of January. Also my name matched with a wanted man. lol everyone would run if they see guys chasing you like mad dogs.
I'm wondering how a pocket knife would help you in case of a car crash? You might get stuck in seat belts unable to use it.

Here's the link to 1959 Arms Act in PDF format http://mha.nic.in/pdfs/arms%20act-1959.pdf
and here's 1962 Arms Act http://delhipolicelicensing.gov.in/list ... S-1962.pdf

I heard about the maximum blade length of 9" applies while importing knives but not sure if it applies to domestic production and use too.
What about export laws, I have a friend in USA who is asking me to ship a 13" khukri to her. Is it possible?
When I'll get to shoot a gun?

For Advertising mail webmaster
goodboy_mentor
Old Timer
Old Timer
Posts: 2928
Joined: Sun Dec 07, 2008 12:35 pm

Re: Could the experts tell me if this knife is legal in Indi

Post by goodboy_mentor » Mon May 07, 2012 11:35 pm

before i do that,aren't the restrictions imposed by the center public domain? Or is rti the only way to find out?
Yes all the notifications are supposed to be published in the official government gazette. So if you can get hold of those particular gazettes in which the concerned notifications were published, you will be able to read the relevant notifications. Other option is to buy some book on Arms Act 1959 which also has updated each and every notification issued till date. Or consult some local seasoned criminal lawyer who is updated with every notification related to this matter. Other option is RTI with the concerned government department.
i mean there are things like blade lengths above 9 inches are illegal and so on,from where did people get this? Are these restrictions imposed by the center?
There is no such thing as knives below 9 inches are always legal and so on. What matters is the notification issued under Section 4 of Arms Act 1959. If there is no notification issued under Section 4 of Arms Act 1959 for your area, it means you can possess any kind of "arms other than firearms" regardless of shape/size etc. But if the there is notification under Section 4 of Arms Act 1959, then you will have to follow what the notification says you to do.

About your question related to 9 inches length, probably what you are referring is Category V in Schedule I of Arms Rule 1962. There is some kind of misconception floating around on the net that knife below 9 inches is legal and so on. If you do not believe me then read one case related to Amrik Singh vs State Of Rajasthan.
"If my mother tongue is shaking the foundations of your State, it probably means that you built your State on my land" - Musa Anter, Kurdish writer, assassinated by the Turkish secret services in 1992

Skyman
Shooting true
Shooting true
Posts: 975
Joined: Fri Jan 27, 2012 1:29 pm

Re: Could the experts tell me if this knife is legal in Indi

Post by Skyman » Tue May 08, 2012 9:17 am

Priyan-the pocket knife i am looking to get has a seat belt cutter and glass breaker.
Thanks for the links.
Are people coming in from the U.S able to get knives as personal baggage? If so will Indian knife laws apply? Need to clear that up.I don't know about export laws, that khukri is legal in the U.S, produced in India but i don't know if i can leave our shores.Unsharpened one could be sent as a decorative item though, i guess.

Goodboy- what to do now, i can't get a hold of the notifications, the govt reply said the state had imposed no restrictions,only central restrictions apply.How to get hold of them? DO you know what laws apply if someone is getting knives as personal baggage?
I would rather hit my target gently than miss hard.

User avatar
mundaire
We post a lot
We post a lot
Posts: 5410
Joined: Mon May 22, 2006 5:53 pm
Location: New Delhi, India
Contact:

Re: Could the experts tell me if this knife is legal in Indi

Post by mundaire » Tue May 08, 2012 9:47 am

Skyman you really should go through the Arms Act & Arms Rules - at least once. It's short enough and useful enough to be very worthwhile for you. Till the time you can get a copy in your hand try - http://www.abhijeetsingh.com/arms/india/laws/

Also see the following:
From the Arms Act 1959
2. (1) (c) "arms" means articles of any description designed or adapted as weapons for offence or defence, and includes firearms, sharp edged and other deadly weapons, and parts of, and machinery for manufacturing, arms, but does not include articles designed solely for domestic or agricultural uses such as a lathi or an ordinary walking stick and weapons incapable of being used otherwise than as toys or of being converted into serviceable weapons;
4. Licence for acquisition and possession of arms of specified description in certain cases
If the Central Government is of opinion that having regard to the circumstances prevailing in any area it is necessary or expedient in the public interest that the acquisition, possession or carrying of arms other than firearms should also be regulated, it may, by notification in the Official Gazette, direct that this section shall apply to the area specified in the notification, and thereupon no person shall acquire, have in his possession or carry in that area arms of such class or description as may be specified in that notification unless he holds in this behalf a licence issued in accordance with the provisions of this Act and the rules made there under.
20. Arrest of persons conveying arms, etc., under suspicious circumstances
Where any person is found carrying or conveying any arms or ammunition whether covered by a licence or not, in such manner or under such circumstances as to afford just grounds of suspicion that the same are or is being carried by him with intent to use them, or that the same may be used, for any unlawful purpose, any magistrate, any police officer or any other public servant or any person employed or working upon a railway, aircraft, vessel, vehicle or any other means of conveyance, may arrest him without warrant and seize from him such arms or ammunition.
Also read Sections 22., 24, & 27.

From the Arms Rules 1962
18. Application of Sec. 4 of the Act
In any area specified in the notification issued by the Central Government under Sec. 4, licenses for acquisition, possession or carrying in that area of arms of such class or description as may be specified in that notification may also be granted or renewed as provided in Sch, II, subject to such conditions as are specified in that schedule and in the license.

19. Arms other than fire arms
Unless the Central or State Government by notification in the Official Gazette so directs, no license shall be required for the manufacturer, sale, possession for sale or test, of arms of category V except in the areas notified under Sec. 4.
From SCHEDULE -I of the Arms Rules 1962
Category V.
Arms other than fire-arms: Sharp-edged and deadly weapons, namely: swords (including sword-stick), daggers, bayonets, spears (including lances and javelins); battle-axes, knives (including kirpans a Khukries and other such weapons with blades longer than 9" or wider than 2" other than those designed for domestic, agricultural, scientific or industrial purpose, steel baton; "Zipo" and other such weapons called "life preserves"; machinery for making arms other than category II; and any other arms which the Central Government may notify under Sec. 4.
As per SCHEDULE -II of the Arms Rules 1962 the competent Licensing Authority for Category V Arms is:

For purpose of "Acquisition/ possession/ carrying and use for protection/ sport/target/ practice/display" -
District/ State - Distt. Magistrate
Whole of India - State Government
Renewing authority - Distt. Magistrate.

To get a copy of the above - go to your nearest Govt./ legal bookseller and get a copy of the "Arms Act 1959 & Arms Rules 1962 (BARE ACT". Should cost you no more than INR 200/-.

Cheers!
Abhijeet
Like & share IndiansForGuns Facebook Page
Follow IndiansForGuns on Twitter

FIGHT FOR YOUR RIGHTS - JOIN NAGRI NOW!

www.gunowners.in

"Political tags - such as royalist, communist, democrat, populist, fascist, liberal, conservative, and so forth - are never basic criteria. The human race divides politically into those who want people to be controlled and those who have no such desire." -- Robert Heinlein

User avatar
Priyan
One of Us (Nirvana)
One of Us (Nirvana)
Posts: 416
Joined: Sun Sep 19, 2010 10:49 pm
Location: Assam

Re: Could the experts tell me if this knife is legal in Indi

Post by Priyan » Tue May 08, 2012 10:05 am

Abhijit I tried to search for those books before but couldn't find it anywhere in my city. Could you please explain to me the knife export laws, I need this information urgently due to the reason I mentioned in my previous post.
mundaire wrote:machinery for manufacturing, arms
So by this definition, Milling machine, drill press, lathe etc. are arms and require a license?
Do we need permit to own them?
When I'll get to shoot a gun?

User avatar
dev
Old Timer
Old Timer
Posts: 2614
Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2006 5:16 pm
Location: New Delhi

Re: Could the experts tell me if this knife is legal in Indi

Post by dev » Tue May 08, 2012 10:45 am

Skyman wrote:Priyan-the pocket knife i am looking to get has a seat belt cutter and glass breaker.
Thanks for the links.
Are people coming in from the U.S able to get knives as personal baggage? If so will Indian knife laws apply? Need to clear that up.I don't know about export laws, that khukri is legal in the U.S, produced in India but i don't know if i can leave our shores.Unsharpened one could be sent as a decorative item though, i guess.

Goodboy- what to do now, i can't get a hold of the notifications, the govt reply said the state had imposed no restrictions,only central restrictions apply.How to get hold of them? DO you know what laws apply if someone is getting knives as personal baggage?
You can buy the car seat belt cutter and glass breaker for $5 at dealextreme.com, this is with free shipping heh...heh.. :D
To ride, to speak up, to shoot straight.

Skyman
Shooting true
Shooting true
Posts: 975
Joined: Fri Jan 27, 2012 1:29 pm

Re: Could the experts tell me if this knife is legal in Indi

Post by Skyman » Tue May 08, 2012 11:32 am

From SCHEDULE -I of the Arms Rules 1962
Category V.
Arms other than fire-arms: Sharp-edged and deadly weapons, namely: swords (including sword-stick), daggers, bayonets, spears (including lances and javelins); battle-axes, knives (including kirpans a Khukries and other such weapons with blades longer than 9" or wider than 2" other than those designed for domestic, agricultural, scientific or industrial purpose, steel baton; "Zipo" and other such weapons called "life preserves"; machinery for making arms other than category II; and any other arms which the Central Government may notify under Sec. 4.


Abhijeet- i do not know if you are into knives, but there are a lot of other things that paragraph does not name which may come under section 4.For instance spring assisted knives find no mention.While a great many things may be notified under section 4, i do not know if everything will be dealt without ambiguity, for example serrated knives may be interpreted as the official wishes if there are no notifications present or if the notifications do not cover that.

The problem is, the Karnataka home ministry has said there are no notifications issued by the state govt, only those issued by the central govt are in force.The question is - what are they?

Priyan- thats exactly what i'm saying, the govt says machinery.A lathe maybe used to mill knives OR machetes which do not come under the purview of the law.A lathe can also mill a motorcycle crank.But you might be on the wrong side of the law, depending on ad hoc interpretation!!! You can buy small lathes yourself, and industrial grade machinery if you are into industries i guess.

Dev- will check the site, but you see i want the knife.The rest are welcome extras.
I would rather hit my target gently than miss hard.

Rajat
Shooting true
Shooting true
Posts: 631
Joined: Mon Aug 30, 2010 3:55 pm

Re: Could the experts tell me if this knife is legal in Indi

Post by Rajat » Tue May 08, 2012 11:48 am

Skyman wrote:Priyan-the pocket knife i am looking to get has a seat belt cutter and glass breaker.
It is available here in India and the manufacturer is Victorinox. It is available at most Base Camp stores across India. This model is called the Rescue Tool and comes with all that you are looking for.

Check out: http://www.basecamp.in/Products/Victori ... 17796.aspx

goodboy_mentor
Old Timer
Old Timer
Posts: 2928
Joined: Sun Dec 07, 2008 12:35 pm

Re: Could the experts tell me if this knife is legal in Indi

Post by goodboy_mentor » Tue May 08, 2012 11:58 am

what to do now, i can't get a hold of the notifications, the govt reply said the state had imposed no restrictions,only central restrictions apply.How to get hold of them?
The central restrictions will also be sent to the state home ministry for getting implemented by local police, therefore you may do another RTI with them. I have already answered this question earlier here http://indiansforguns.com/viewtopic.php ... 30#p165386
DO you know what laws apply if someone is getting knives as personal baggage?
General answer: customs laws and arms laws apply. Specific answer: please refer ITC(HS) Code 93070000 in Chapter 93 of Compendium on Import Policy of India and baggage rules.
but there are a lot of other things that paragraph does not name which may come under section 4.For instance spring assisted knives find no mention.While a great many things may be notified under section 4, i do not know if everything will be dealt without ambiguity, for example serrated knives may be interpreted as the official wishes if there are no notifications present or if the notifications do not cover that.
Please do not confuse yourself by reading only Category V in SCHEDULE I of the Arms Rules 1962. Read Arms Act 1959, Arms Rules 1962, its Schedules along with the Notifications issued under Arms Act 1959. If there is no notification under Section 4 of Arms Act 1959, whether knife is serrated or not or of whatever length, shape or size or whatever does not matter so long the equipment is "arms other than firearms". What is so difficult to understand?

As far as question of interpretation by "official wishes" is concerned, they can do so regardless of notifications under Section 4 of Arms Act 1959, there are various other Sections within Arms Act 1959 as well as CrPC and IPC which they can use/misuse to arrest you.
"If my mother tongue is shaking the foundations of your State, it probably means that you built your State on my land" - Musa Anter, Kurdish writer, assassinated by the Turkish secret services in 1992

User avatar
mundaire
We post a lot
We post a lot
Posts: 5410
Joined: Mon May 22, 2006 5:53 pm
Location: New Delhi, India
Contact:

Re: Could the experts tell me if this knife is legal in Indi

Post by mundaire » Tue May 08, 2012 2:22 pm

Nope, not "into" knives, though I have a few blades. For me knives are simply tools bought with some practical end use in mind (fishing, outdoors, kitchen use, etc.). All of my knives (excluding a couple of Rampuris) see frequent use, though the only one that I carry all the time is a 11 year old Victorinox Trekker.

As to your queries IMHO they have all been adequately answered in this thread. The reason why I specifically mentioned Sections 20, 22, 24, & 27 of the Arms Act was to point out the simple fact that WHETHER OR NOT the blade you are looking to buy/ carry is legal or not, you can be hauled in and detained by the authorities at THEIR OWN DISCRETION. There are also provisions for this in the IPC/ CrPC (I forget which ones - Google for more). So anyone who EDC's a knife, should be prepared with an explanation if he/ she is ever stopped by the cops and asked why he/ she has it on their person.

Yes, we ARE all living in a police state! :evil:

Cheers!
Abhijeet
Like & share IndiansForGuns Facebook Page
Follow IndiansForGuns on Twitter

FIGHT FOR YOUR RIGHTS - JOIN NAGRI NOW!

www.gunowners.in

"Political tags - such as royalist, communist, democrat, populist, fascist, liberal, conservative, and so forth - are never basic criteria. The human race divides politically into those who want people to be controlled and those who have no such desire." -- Robert Heinlein

User avatar
Priyan
One of Us (Nirvana)
One of Us (Nirvana)
Posts: 416
Joined: Sun Sep 19, 2010 10:49 pm
Location: Assam

Re: Could the experts tell me if this knife is legal in Indi

Post by Priyan » Tue May 08, 2012 2:25 pm

Skyman wrote:Priyan- thats exactly what i'm saying, the govt says machinery.A lathe maybe used to mill knives OR machetes which do not come under the purview of the law.A lathe can also mill a motorcycle crank.But you might be on the wrong side of the law, depending on ad hoc interpretation!!! You can buy small lathes yourself, and industrial grade machinery if you are into industries i guess.
You are right, a lathe can turn firearm barrels and make nuts and bolts for agricultural machines too and a mill can machine anything for NASA rocket parts to a firearm receiver.
How does the government define industrial lathe and a small lathe, bed size?

I still have confusion about the knife export laws, Damn babus make everything so rolled up like spaghetti.
When I'll get to shoot a gun?

User avatar
Priyan
One of Us (Nirvana)
One of Us (Nirvana)
Posts: 416
Joined: Sun Sep 19, 2010 10:49 pm
Location: Assam

Re: Could the experts tell me if this knife is legal in Indi

Post by Priyan » Tue May 08, 2012 2:26 pm

mundaire wrote: Yes, we ARE all living in a police nanny state! :evil:
When I'll get to shoot a gun?

Skyman
Shooting true
Shooting true
Posts: 975
Joined: Fri Jan 27, 2012 1:29 pm

Re: Could the experts tell me if this knife is legal in Indi

Post by Skyman » Tue May 08, 2012 5:05 pm

Rajat- victorinox knife edges get dented easily and are not the kind any one expecting trouble carries.

Goodboy- remember i asked them for any and all notifications issued.If there were central notifications,they should have sent them over.But rather they have evaded replying by saying the state has imposed no restrictions.Do you see why i am not confident of a reply even if i do an rti? Speaking to a knowledgeable person is a worthier alternative.

Please do not confuse yourself by reading only Category V in SCHEDULE I of the Arms Rules 1962. Read Arms Act 1959, Arms Rules 1962, its Schedules along with the Notifications issued under Arms Act 1959. If there is no notification under Section 4 of Arms Act 1959, whether knife is serrated or not or of whatever length, shape or size or whatever does not matter so long the equipment is "arms other than firearms". What is so difficult to understand?

category 5 says notifications maybe issued for blades longer than 9 inches and wider than 2 inches for different areas.By the MHA answer there are none at all issued by the state govt.If only central notifications prevail, my understanding is that NO restrictions apply in this state.Is that correct, as the center has not specified any specifics but mere guidelines...?

Abhijeet- you are correct.What i was saying was there are things that there maybe no notifications for but might still land you in jail.one and the same thing.

Priyan- that's why i seek to be confused about no thing.If not, only some things.
I would rather hit my target gently than miss hard.

Rajat
Shooting true
Shooting true
Posts: 631
Joined: Mon Aug 30, 2010 3:55 pm

Re: Could the experts tell me if this knife is legal in Indi

Post by Rajat » Tue May 08, 2012 5:27 pm

Skyman wrote:Rajat- victorinox knife edges get dented easily and are not the kind any one expecting trouble carries.
Oh! I didn't know that.

By the way what is it that you have set your sights on?

User avatar
ak27
Almost at nirvana
Almost at nirvana
Posts: 162
Joined: Sun Aug 28, 2011 11:12 pm
Location: Illinois

Re: Could the experts tell me if this knife is legal in Indi

Post by ak27 » Tue May 08, 2012 6:12 pm

@Skyman AFAIK, Victorinox swiss army knives are best for EDC in the urban context and they have proven to be doing their job very well over the years.

Would like to know what kind of 'trouble' you are speaking about here...
"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety" - Ben Franklin

Post Reply