Hindustan Times full page feature on gun owners

[.338 lapua]

A very good job indeed,Really,the thing with our society is that there is lack of awareness about RKBA,Such posts in the national papers will definitely make people think of how the common citizens are being deprived of fundamental rights.three cheers for Mr TC,Please also try and write about the plight of the citizens who after getting the arms license are left to buy outdated and cheap weapons at exhorbitant rates or are forced to buy substanard ones from the government factories.Thank's Mr TC.' Keep it up"


Regard's

Dhiraj

[Vikram]

Thank you,TC.Something not often seen in the Indian press.We need more like you.


Best-
Vikram

[TC]

A very good job indeed,Really,the thing with our society is that there is lack of awareness about RKBA,Such posts in the national papers will definitely make people think of how the common citizens are being deprived of fundamental rights.three cheers for Mr TC,Please also try and write about the plight of the citizens who after getting the arms license are left to buy outdated and cheap weapons at exhorbitant rates or are forced to buy substanard ones from the government factories.Thank's Mr TC.' Keep it up"


Regard's

Dhiraj

Thank you so much Dhiraj. I will.

Regards
TC

[TC]

Thank you,TC.Something not often seen in the Indian press.We need more like you.


Best-
Vikram

Thank you Vikram... Nice to hear from you. Its been almost three years since we last exchanged notes. As Abhijeet pointed out, I was MIA.

Regards

TC

[boris]

Very good article by TC sir,any journo who writes in favor of RKBA is aces in my book.


Now coming to that police chap who is feared about being outgunned I'd very much like to slap him for his pathetic comment and since he cited that as the reason for ban on imports so we can say that well the police say that its actually the governments mistrust on its own citizens and maybe their fear that import has been banned,not some mumbo-jumbo about terrorism or selling at exorbitant prices by importers.After all we got this from the horse's mouth.

I must actually applaud the British for being so good that even after 65 years the mindset that they aimed for the IAS,IPS has remained intact or bulletproof as I put it.

But coming back on topic its a good moment that RKBA has been supported by an Indian Journalist.

[paragvns]

excellent job!the epaper is available here -
http://paper.hindustantimes.com/epaper/viewer.aspx#

[renjith747]

spin_drift

Also if I may make a suggestion, it would be really beneficial if you could perhaps write an article that talks about Articles 19 and 21 of the Constitution and RKBA and how our fundamental right (RKBA) is being subverted by the authorities... and how because of the subversion of RKBA ordinary law abiding citizens are being victimized both by the criminals and the authorities and also talk about the arms import ban stating that the citizens who manage to get arms license have shell out a boat load of money to buy old imported weapons and crappy IOF stuff and yet the politicians have easy access to them (imported weapons) at throw away prices and also the people who protect them (SPG, NSG) have all imported weapons...
Also talk about NAGRI what it is and what are it goals and accomplishments till now as that would help NAGRI get some visibility....

I hope TC will consider this in future.I believe that a journalist is empowered with Freedom of Press which is a Fundamental right & Freedom of press is implied from the Article 19(1)(a) of the Constitution.I hope these articles can drive out fear and ambiguities from the mind of persons who wishes to procure a fire arm license in India.last but not least "The pen is mightier than the sword".You are our representative to this society who speaks about RKBA and i pray that you could bring some changes in this society.Wish you all success...

Regards
Renjith

[TC]

Very good article by TC sir,any journo who writes in favor of RKBA is aces in my book.


Now coming to that police chap who is feared about being outgunned I'd very much like to slap him for his pathetic comment and since he cited that as the reason for ban on imports so we can say that well the police say that its actually the governments mistrust on its own citizens and maybe their fear that import has been banned,not some mumbo-jumbo about terrorism or selling at exorbitant prices by importers.After all we got this from the horse's mouth.

I must actually applaud the British for being so good that even after 65 years the mindset that they aimed for the IAS,IPS has remained intact or bulletproof as I put it.

But coming back on topic its a good moment that RKBA has been supported by an Indian Journalist.

Thank you Boris. You are right about the mindset of IPS/IAS officers but there are a few who think against the tide but do not have the guts to swim against it. And, please don't consider me a journalist. I fired live ammo decades before I started writing reports !!

Regards

TC

[TC]

spin_drift

Also if I may make a suggestion, it would be really beneficial if you could perhaps write an article that talks about Articles 19 and 21 of the Constitution and RKBA and how our fundamental right (RKBA) is being subverted by the authorities... and how because of the subversion of RKBA ordinary law abiding citizens are being victimized both by the criminals and the authorities and also talk about the arms import ban stating that the citizens who manage to get arms license have shell out a boat load of money to buy old imported weapons and crappy IOF stuff and yet the politicians have easy access to them (imported weapons) at throw away prices and also the people who protect them (SPG, NSG) have all imported weapons...
Also talk about NAGRI what it is and what are it goals and accomplishments till now as that would help NAGRI get some visibility....

I hope TC will consider this in future.I believe that a journalist is empowered with Freedom of Press which is a Fundamental right & Freedom of press is implied from the Article 19(1)(a) of the Constitution.I hope these articles can drive out fear and ambiguities from the mind of persons who wishes to procure a fire arm license in India.last but not least "The pen is mightier than the sword".You are our representative to this society who speaks about RKBA and i pray that you could bring some changes in this society.Wish you all success...

Regards
Renjith

Thank you Renjith.
Problem is that in India freedom of the Press is as shaky as freedom of the right to bear arms... Well, almost as shaky....
Contrary to what most people believe or like to believe journalists cannot always freely write what they want to write. There are issues which I should not discuss here because of professional ethics. But I will try not to let you guys down because I AM ONE OF YOU.

Regards
TC

[goodboy_mentor]

Fantastic work by TC

No matter what the Act says, no citizen enjoys any Constitutional "right" to own a firearm.

I humbly disagree with the above statement. Every law is flowing from the Constitution, so is Arms Act 1959. Arms are acknowledged as Fundamental Right under Articles 19 and 21 of the Constitution and corresponding Fundamental Duty under Article 51A(d). Since Parliament has the power to regulate the fundamental rights by legislating, arms are regulated by Parliament under Arms Act 1959. There have been recent High Court judgments that have acknowledged the fact that arms are part of Article 21 and thus arms license is not a privilege granted by State. They can be read here http://indiansforguns.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=15639 and http://indiansforguns.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=15638

It is understandable journalists do have practical limitations but sometimes in order to present a balanced article, they can mention the opinion of hon'able courts as counter balance to the biased and prejudiced opinions of government babus or other ignorant people.

[TC]

Fantastic work by TC

No matter what the Act says, no citizen enjoys any Constitutional "right" to own a firearm.

I humbly disagree with the above statement. Every law is flowing from the Constitution, so is Arms Act 1959. Arms are acknowledged as Fundamental Right under Articles 19 and 21 of the Constitution and corresponding Fundamental Duty under Article 51A(d). Since Parliament has the power to regulate the fundamental rights by legislating, arms are regulated by Parliament under Arms Act 1959. There have been recent High Court judgments that have acknowledged the fact that arms are part of Article 21 and thus arms license is not a privilege granted by State. They can be read here http://indiansforguns.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=15639 and http://indiansforguns.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=15638

It is understandable journalists do have practical limitations but sometimes in order to present a balanced article, they can mention the opinion of hon'able courts as counter balance to the biased and prejudiced opinions of government babus or other ignorant people.

Thanks goodboy_mentor.
Since you have mentioned the court order in reference to Article 21 I hope you understand why I had put the word "right" inside double inverted commas and kept the word Constitutional outside. Because, the "right" we are talking about has been twisted into a four letter word by Babus at the grund level. I could use the counterbalance you are referring to but that would have shifted the focus of the news feature from legacy, pride of gun owners and maharajas. I am planning something on RKBA... lets see

regards
TC

[smath70]

Great article. I inherited a semi automatic from my father , who incidentally brought it from America in 1967 and I have tried all options to get it transferred to my name , but, to no avail. Can someone help me out. It is a J.C. Higgins .22 semi automatic, model 25. My father died in 2009 upto which time the license was valid. After which it was deposited in a local armory with the relevant annual fees paid. The license was an all India license for several years and then it became a state license.


But, lately I HAVE RECEIVED AN ORDER FROM THE DC TO surrender it to the police .

Sam Mathews.

Great Job, TC!
It's good to now that everyone in the press is not biased against us.
Is there any way that we can read the article online?

you can read it here sir http://paper.hindustantimes.com/epaper/viewer.aspx

GUNS ARE FOREVER

Hindustan Times (Kolkata)
22 Apr 2012

Once a symbol of might, personal firearms raise questions in today’s society. But, enthusiasts are not ready to give up, reports - TANMAY CHATTERJEE

"We plug the barrels of stick guns and remove the firing mechanism so that people can keep them at home as souvenirs"
JP SINGH Assistant commissioner (Arms Act), Kolkata Police

A pistol, neatly crafted and disguised as a gold plated pen, was perhaps the most bizarre gift Lord Mountbatten, the last viceroy of colonial India, was hoping to receive when the country was paying the price of her Independence with more than half a million deaths, mindless mayhem and, last but not the least, the life of Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi.

But, in 1948, India was a different land. Erstwhile Maharajas, scions of the princely states and landlords were bearing a legacy that had made India a jewel in the crown of the British empire.

The .22 caliber pistol with a 2.7 inch barrel and concealed trigger was a gift to the viceroy from the Maharaja of Jodhpur. It is believed that the firearm, resembling "pen guns" available in Europe at the time, was made by a local gunsmith.

Stories of Indian kings and noblemen and their love for hunting and firearms can run into thousand-page biographies and film scripts. Ironically, most of it is now history. To enforce the ban on hunting and contain crime and terrorism, the Union and the states have been forced to tighten regulations on ownership of firearms since the early 80s. As a result, hundreds of legal heirs to antique and classic firearms across the country have either lost interest in retaining their family heirloom or taking up shooting as a sport like their forefathers. In short, gun enthusiasts — unlike in countries like the USA where the ‘Right to keep and bear arms’ has been guaranteed by the Second Amendment — are gradually becoming extinct.

But, like in all countries where rich history has forced man to become custodians of legacy, a few thousand Indians have refused to let go of their guns. Among them, are quite a few people from Bengal.

When he stares at the Kolkata skyline from his third floor flat at Park Circus, the child in 80-year old Sayyed Abdul Kashem often gets lost in the jungles of Birbhum district where his father, Sayyed Muhammed Hussain, heir to the Khanpur Estate, used to go hunting with Raja Kalikinkar Singh of Maheshpur.

"My father had a British 404 double barrel rifle made by Jeffrey and a ‘drilling’, a shotgun with three barrels firing shells of different bores. There were more. A room in our house was stocked with 18th century flintlock rifles. Dildar Khan, one of my father’s guards, used to hunt wild deer with these obsolete rifles inside the Sultanpur forest. One day a rifle blew up on his face. Probably he rammed in too much gunpowder. Dildar lost his life," recounts Sayeed Abdul Kashem. "Those days are gone."

The octogenarian, ‘Kashem Saheb’ to the city’s gun-loving fraternity, has not given up his ‘babies’ — a classic 357 magnum-12 bore heavily engraved over-under combination and an antique combination with a 16 bore barrel. "Both are of German make," Kashem Saheb points out with panache.

Jyoti Prakash Das, an avid shooter and grandson of Alamohan Das, after whom an industrial zone in Howrah was christened Dasnagar, lives in the company of cold steel and warm nostalgia. His father, Prabhat Kumar Das, bagged the bronze at the 1966 World Shooting Championship in Germany, using a typical hunting shotgun — a Remington 1100 semi automatic.
Urged by experts to procure something more appropriate for the skeet event, Prabhat Kumar returned home with a wonderful Italian over under gun — a Perazzi. "He died that year and could not make it to the Mexico Olympics", says Jyoti Prakash. "But, his guns are with me."

Being in the gun trade probably makes things easier. Joydip Biswas of J Biswas and Co. at Esplanade is one of the youngest collectors in the country to possess two classic hunting rifles — a Holland & Holland 30.06 and a Farlach Armex 375 magnum with factory fitted telescope. "The 30.06 is the only one of its kind in India," quips Joydip as he shoulders the rifle and takes aim at an invisible target.
A "first generation" gun lover, Partha Banerjee, senior executive with a private company, was inspired by friends and colleagues who own firearms. "I was a kid then. One of my relatives did not allow me to touch his revolver. I promised to myself that some day I would own one," says Banerjee.

He purchased two pistols and a British rifle over the years. "Once I was done with all the shooting, I sold two of the weapons. But I have retained the Ruger Mark I .22 pistol. It is an American classic."

Arms and the man: Legal hurdles on the way

Despite every provision that gives an Indian citizen the reason to claim a firearm licence, the Indian Arms Act of 1959 does not really help hardcore gun enthusiasts, collectors or, even wannabe shooters, because of the amendments and enforcement at the ground level.

To begin with, the Act does not allow one person to own more than three firearms at a time. A fourth, subject to discretion of the administration, is allowed provided it is of .22 caliber which is primarily used by sportspersons.
No matter what the Act says, no citizen enjoys any Constitutional "right" to own a firearm. Granting or not granting a licence depends entirely on the discretion exercised by the local police or district administration. And, this discretion gives the local authorities the power to deny licence even if the applicant passes the mandatory test, that is, he has provided proof that he is a bonafide, law-abiding citizen with no criminal record.

"With illegal firearms infiltrating metros and towns and crime and terrorism on the rise, the police will always want to ensure that weapons in the hands of private citizens are kept at a minimum. A weapon in every home would mean that the police would be outgunned the day hell breaks loose. We have to use extreme caution while granting a licence and that is why there is almost a blanket ban on import of weapons from abroad since 1984," said a state home department official.

"Yes, this extreme caution does lead to denial of licence to people who fail to provide any convincing reason for keeping a firearm. Even if one sites threat to life or property, we have to be convinced," the officer added.
Against this backdrop, people eager to retain antique and classic firearms left by ancestors often run into hurdles. One, if there are three or more firearms, getting licence for all becomes difficult. Two, if any of the weapons are of prohibited caliber (the ones used by the police, paramilitary and Armed Forces), the legal procedure becomes all the more gruesome.

There are also occasions when an inherited weapon is found to be of a caliber or design that is obsolete. With no supply of cartridge, the weapon turn into a showpiece. Yet, the inheritor has to procure licence to retain it. "There are so many antique weapons, the old .455 or .476 Webley revolvers, for example, for which cartridges aren't available any more. We still have some in our stocks," said Subrata Daw of NC Daw and Co, the oldest surviving gun shop in Kolkata.

Firearms disguised as walking sticks and umbrellas that fire a single round at a time, have been banned in many states including Bengal. "We plug the barrels of stick guns and remove the firing mechanism so that people can keep them at home as souvenirs," said JP Singh, assistant commissioner (Arms Act), Kolkata Police.

"The Union government has provided options to preserve family legacy. And, that includes granting permission to retain weapons of prohibited bores," Singh added.

Maharajas who had their guns etched in gold

On the eve of the fateful 2011 Assembly polls, when the police asked citizens to deposit all personal firearms in the custody of registered gun dealers, a shop owner in central Kolkata was taken aback one afternoon. A businessman from Burrabazar arrived with a small metal can with a pipe and a lever protruding from opposite ends. "I refused to believe that it was a firearm but the man opened the can, inserted a .22 short cartridge inside a rotating disc and showed me how to fire it," says the shop owner.

The weapon (pictured) is a Turbiaux palm squeezer pistol made in France. Its inventor, Jaques Turbiaux, a Parisian, patented it in 1882. Copies, with an additional safety catch and couple of finger rests, were later made in the USA. Because of their poor killing power the palm squeezers never became popular. How one of these landed in Kolkata and still remains operational can ideally be a subject of research.

Antique and classic firearms, ranging from big bore hunting rifles to tiny self defence handguns, can still be found in personal collections and museums across India. Many weapons also landed in Europe. These were either sold by their Indian owners, given away to British officers as gifts or, simply acquired during wars and mutinies as 'mementos'.

During research, members of the country's first gun owners online forum, Indians For Guns, have came across a number of weapons that were custom-made by British gun makers for royal families in India. One such weapon is an old 12 bore shotgun (pictured) made by famous British gun makers, Alexander Henry, in 1874 for the Maharaja of Patiala. The gun had gold engraving down the barrel. Years later, it was reportedly given as a gift to a retired British army officer.

Westley Richards of Birmingham, another British gun maker of international repute, made a droplock paradox gun (pictured) in 1911 for the then Maharaja of Patiala. The gun, with exquisite gold engraving, also had the Maharaja’s face etched on the frame.

In 1939, John Rigby and Company made a sidelock double rifle in .416/470 for the Maharaja of Sujapur. The rifle had extensive engravings and etchings on the frame, barrel and the walnut stock. This is believed to be the only rifle made by Rigby in these calibers at that time. The rifle even has the crest of Sujapur kingdom etched on it.
At the Maharaja Sawai Man Singh II museum in Jaipur, the Silehkhana or armoury is a true treasure trove for gun enthusiasts. The museum has one of the largest and finest collections of black powder guns and handguns from the matchlock and flintlock era.

In Bengal, such a collection can be found at the Hazarduari Palace in Murshidabad district, the capital of Shiraz-ud-daulla, the last independent Nawab of Bengal who lost to Lord Clive in the Battle of Plassey in 1757.

[TC]

Dear Sam Mathews,
Yours days of agony are over. The new Arms Rules 2016 has made .22 semi automatic rifles legal for ownership by civilians. There are at least two topics discussions on the issue in this forum. Please go through those, download the Arms Rules 2016, make a copy and submit a fresh application quoting the new rules.
Your licencing authority cannot deny you a licence anymore as long as you fulfill the rest of the criteria for gun ownership. If they create problem, file a case in court. The law is now on your side.

Best wishes

TC

[goodboy_mentor]

But, lately I HAVE RECEIVED AN ORDER FROM THE DC TO surrender it to the police .

What is the written reason DC has given for surrender?

Who is in possession of the weapon?

Is that possession legal or illegal?

Have you already surrendered the weapon?

Do you have license to possess this weapon?

What legal steps you have taken after the death of your father?

What were the legal written responses to your efforts?