Infantry rifle

[zombie]

IOF being what they are would be better off building a weapon based on AK47/AKM. It can be made more accurate and full-auto removed.

Somehow I feel that 7.62mm x 39 is a winner in all aspects and suits our requirements just fine. Alternately license copy of Vz. 58 with generous use of polymer should serve well too. As it is, this weapon is a favourite of SF chaps. Allows to use ammo collected from enemy combatants easing logistics.

A more powerful round for line units on line of 6.8mm SPC should do the job.

[TwoRivers]

Well, aren't they doing that already? What is the INSAS if not an AK47 clone? And how could a Kalashnikov based design be more accurate? The AK-47 is known for its reliability, not great accuracy.

[MoA]

I have said it before and will say it again: The AK pattern weapons (AK's. VZ'z. et al) are more kitchen utensils than weapons. Simple effective, work everytime, despite neglect. Get the job done.

[zombie]

TR, INSAS has drawn 'inspiration' from quiet a few contemporary firearms. So let us not discuss that.

Regarding more accurate versions of AK, originals were built with not-so-fine tolerances. This led to loss of accuracy at longer ranges and negligible maintenance requirements. This was in turn result of Soviet style of recruiting conscripts rather than having an army of career soldiers. Conscripts and weapons built with finer tolerances don't gel well. M-16 wielding draftees in Vietnam being a classic example. M-16 built with fine tolerances was pretty accurate, but prone to jams due to weather and using propellant other than what it was actually designed for. Conscripts never get enough time to familiarize themselves with weapons and mostly fail to appreciate weapons maintenance leading to malfunctions. Soviets completely avoided that by building a not-so-perfect but rugged and usable weapon which didn't require any maintenance and could be used with minimum training. Proliferation of AK and its clones across the globe supports their doctrine. In addition to that it could be manufactured real cheap.

By building this weapon to finer tolerances, it can be made more accurate to meet punch and accuracy requirements of line units who'll take it to battle in deserts, plains or mountains.

[TwoRivers]

And in the process lose its reliability, as well as its ease of manufacture. Part of the problem with the M16 in Vietnam was the idiotic advice that the rifle required no cleaning, and no field cleaning equipment being issued. The substitute powder with more fouling and residue didn't help matters. A case of die and learn, I guess.

[zombie]

Spot on about M-16.

Your concern about improved AK is valid. But as it is cleaning drill is strictly enforced in Indian Army. And it is staffed big time by career soldiers. Regarding ease of manufacture, OFB is already manufacturing a complicated piece of hardware in terms of INSAS. Improved AK would be lot more easier than that.

[Priyan]

I think AR type rifles would be a good rifle to arm our soldiers with. AFAIK US Army is replacing their M16 with M4 and the Marines are thinking about replacing it too. Few days ago I heard Russia is about to replace their AK47 too (yey! cheap parts kit, too bad AK won't be cheap as Mosin Nagant due to the Full-auto ban and 1994 import ban). What about G36? I saw Pakistan armed forces with G36 in a liveleak video.

[puru baruah]

i would rather suggest a space age weapon like the Tar 21,bullpup(tavor) better than most assault rifles of today and not only that ,,,its handy(not that cumbersome to carry specially in the jungles during operations ,light weight,and reliable too,,,,,battle tested by both israeli army and our Indian special forces and Rashtriya rifles in their Counter insurgency ops......and its one of the serious contenders i guess for the replacement of the Insas from the army

[puru baruah]

and it has similar range compared to any 5.56 assault rifles and less recoil durin full auto fire and better accuracy

[zombie]

Puru, TAR-21 (Tavor) will have same performance as most weapons firing 5.56mm rounds because Tavor uses 5.56mm rounds. Of course our SF and RR chaps are using it, but it all comes back to punch of the round. From what I know, SF is not too happy about its stopping power.

Tavor is offered in 9mm x19 as X-95, but then again it is a pistol round and completely useless for medium range engagements.

Although a bull-pup with 7.62mm x 39 round would be pretty interesting.

[puru baruah]

i dont think our Para sf and RR are not happy with the tavor,infact they are ordering more of them,even our Marcos recently bought them..i do agree in the case of lack of stopping power the 5.56mm ammo,but compared to other 5.56 insas or m16 normal rifle,tavor is better.. I guess the Israeli's will be working out soon in the 7.62x39 version of Tavor.,like they did in the Galil

[zombie]

Are you sure they are happy about Tavor and there are no vested interests for ordering more Tavors? Why didn't we get a license to manufacture it? Never mind. Some things are not fit for public discussion.

[Priyan]

Can someone explain to me why Trevor is better? Won't it require some efforts to teach soldiers to reload a bullpop rifle quickly. Speaking of 5.56x45 and 7.62x39 stopping power, both round would kill someone if shot in the vitals. 7.62x39 won't just magically kill someone if shot in the shoulder or leg.

[puru baruah]

@zombie..i will post a link soon regarding the role of tavor,,,and as for the liscense manufacturing part,our Govt now a days does not buy through the process of single vendor system..rather now a days it opens a tender,calling various manufacturer to participate and the weapon system which meets both technical,financial parameters wins..for small scale ,this process is not followed but for large scale liscense manufacturing ,this process is followed,,,and the tender process for the next assault rifle for the indian is going to start in a year or so,and wil b a lengthy process..sigh

[puru baruah]

@priyan..tavor was made seeing various threats faced by the military today .it is light ,short(good for urban warfare or in jungles,thanks to its size,,and u wouldnt want 2 carry a rifle like insas or slr in both the situations mentioned above,shorter the weapon better is it for the infantry,, and without compromising the effective range...and as for the reloading part..they will get used to it,, like they did learn for the first time in ak or in insas