Fire Arms of the Indian Defence Forces

[xl_target]

I am very sure I saw a G3 with a soldier/police ( I am not familiar with Indian uniforms, sorry): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heckler_%26_Koch_G3
Am I right or is it a weapon just looking like a G3?

Alex, is it possible that you saw a soldier or policeman with an SLR? That would not be an uncommon sight.
Another possibility is the H&K MSG90 which is based to the G3. These, however, are used by SF units (like the paracommando's) and one doesn't normally see these guys parading around. However, the NSG uses them too.

[boris]

I am very sure I saw a G3 with a soldier/police ( I am not familiar with Indian uniforms, sorry): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heckler_%26_Koch_G3
Am I right or is it a weapon just looking like a G3?

Alex, is it possible that you saw a soldier or policeman with an SLR? That would not be an uncommon sight.
Another possibility is the H&K MSG90 which is based to the G3. These, however, are used by SF units (like the paracommando's) and one doesn't normally see these guys parading around. However, the NSG uses them too.

sir NSG uses the PSG-1,MSG90 used only be the three SF units.anyhow how is your .22 1911 doing.

[sa_ali]

thanks a ton for sharing the video, i gives such a proud Indian feeling while watching it.

Its good that atleast our spl forces are getting better weapons.

[boris]

Boris

In the snapshot of Sikh officers the one away from the picture has a red stripe on his turban signifying a senior rank a Lt gen -- these pictures are on BR website and again why have multiple type of weapons - folks are trained on one or two typically and the guns/ammo is interchangeable with regular infantry weapons.. i doubt whether US special forces has such a diverse guns inventory with operational units they keep things limited to handful type of guns.

Travor is a contentious choice even Israel has not fully embraced it there are better choices out there but then what do arm chair folks like us know

Best

sir firstly thank you for pointing that out,secondly the SF units always like to keep flexibility in their weapon systems as i have been told for eg the british SAS use the canadian C7 too but in small numbers only,the US forces have so many variants of the M-16 in their inventory like the M4,mk mod 16,SR-25 sniper and now they have begun using HK 416(gun used on bin laden),M110 semi auto sniper system and some LWRC guns in small numbers,our guys are keeping a good mix using effective 5.56 round tavors and M4(those who dont like tavors) and AK variants in 7.62 short.

there are absolutely better choices but when the SF is happy and doing very well with what they got what more can we folks say

thank you

thanks a ton for sharing the video, i gives such a proud Indian feeling while watching it.

Its good that atleast our spl forces are getting better weapons.

not only that sir the infrastructure is also good ,i remember seeing the kill house of airborne para units(5,6,7) suited mainly for insurgency ops and the kill house i saw here used by SF which is multi storeyed and can be used to train for every scenario which made me even happier that finally para(SF) has been differentiated from para and given their due role

thank you for the compliment

[Scarlett Warrior]

Para (SF) of the Indian Army have graduated to Tavors, Indian Navy Marcos have upgraded to AK-74s. Garuds of the Indian Air Force are yet to get anything worth, they’re still getting INSAS and AK-47s.

As a matter of fact, it’s a pity that some units of the Indian defence forces still use vintage fire arms like the BREN LMG and the Sterling Sten Guns (they still do train with them). They can get LMGs from the INSAS family and MSMC at the least, leave alone state of the art weapons.

[Safarigent]

having a plethora of weapons is not a great situation either.
there was a news report a few months back that the government has decided to reduce the random order of weapons by the various police/paramilitary/defence forces arms.
it is harmful in that you spend money in establishing supply chains for different weapon systems. Some countries have a wide variety in their weapon systems but they are quantitatively on a much smaller arm than india and they also have the money to spend on these things.
secondly, it is not the weapon but the finger on the trigger that matters.
the sas was for a lot of years using inferior weapons than their opponents in the ww 2. that didnt stop them from winning over their opponents most of the times.
the western sf units who come to india to train with the indian sf units come for the cross training and experience not because we have better weapons.
i want to see where this thread develops and i would love to be a part of the discussion here.

[Alex Amtage]

You must be right! I think it was a police squad not army I saw!

[boris]

having a plethora of weapons is not a great situation either.
there was a news report a few months back that the government has decided to reduce the random order of weapons by the various police/paramilitary/defence forces arms.
it is harmful in that you spend money in establishing supply chains for different weapon systems. Some countries have a wide variety in their weapon systems but they are quantitatively on a much smaller arm than india and they also have the money to spend on these things.
secondly, it is not the weapon but the finger on the trigger that matters.
the sas was for a lot of years using inferior weapons than their opponents in the ww 2. that didnt stop them from winning over their opponents most of the times.
the western sf units who come to india to train with the indian sf units come for the cross training and experience not because we have better weapons.
i want to see where this thread develops and i would love to be a part of the discussion here.

i agree but having 3-4 different rifles isnt bad either,pak SSG has almost the same number only difference being we have tavor for bullpup and they have steyr-aug.

the western SF bit is right but as of now they havent sent their best the delta force and devgru over here till now.but i have heard indian SF folks say that the SAS is amazing and hands down they are better than any yankee unit.

the fact is we dont have the money to spend on the SF like US does on delta and devgru,both these units spend more money on 9mm ammo alone than the entire marine corps does on its entire ammo in a year.if we had i dont have an iota of doubt we be the best of the best,like you i too have a close relation in the SF and our SF is amazing and highly underestimated mainly by our own people and others.

anyway here is what i can say is an old video of delta which was shown to green berets,rangers during recruitment and its confirmed by many to be the real deal,i must say american SF is amazing and they too are underestimated by many.



do show it to your father and i'd love to hear his views.

regards

[Safarigent]

you are right.
but i truly believe that the man underneath is what matters to agreat deal. its that intangible which makes the SAS the best and which has made the Indian SF to be held in high regard. i have not only my dad but also my brother in law who is in the SF and a few other friends.
you are right about enough money not being spent on these boys, but vice versa, thats why they are so mentally tough and proficient. the can do attitude is instilled in them because they cant afford a toys will do attitude
i might be biased,but bigger and fancier doesnt add up to better. and anyway, being SF, after a certain level of equipment and training, its your mental make up that matters more.

[boris]

you are right.
but i truly believe that the man underneath is what matters to agreat deal. its that intangible which makes the SAS the best and which has made the Indian SF to be held in high regard. i have not only my dad but also my brother in law who is in the SF and a few other friends.
you are right about enough money not being spent on these boys, but vice versa, thats why they are so mentally tough and proficient. the can do attitude is instilled in them because they cant afford a toys will do attitude
i might be biased,but bigger and fancier doesnt add up to better. and anyway, being SF, after a certain level of equipment and training, its your mental make up that matters more.

i am in full agreement with you sir,it is one of the main mottos of the SF to do the best with whatever they have got,i dont think the british govt. spends as much on the SAS,SBS as US does on delta,team 6,SEALs,green berets but still my relative in the SF and also others have said brits are better hands down.

it is always said that its the man behind the machine that matters,many people think the probation/selection that SF men go through is for ultimate fitness is a fact i disagree after a lot of reading on them and some of their interviews i believe all that ardous physical toil is not just to test you but to build the mind and heart of an SF operator - not to give up under any odds.

thank you for your contributions

[Safarigent]

its a systematic process where in they break you down mentally and physically, and then build you up the right way.
lets talk about their decision making skills.
does anyone know the methodology used to arrive at decisions by these guys?

[nagarifle]

since we have drifted to character etc of forces take a butchers at this.

http://www.nagalandpost.com/ChannelNews ... M35c9D8%3d

DGAR may face action for misusing funds
NEW DELHI, SEP 27 (IANS) :Published on 28 Sep. 2011 1:39 AM IST


Indian Army has sought the government’s permission to initiate a formal probe against Assam Rifles Director General, Lieutenant General Rameshwar Roy on charges of spending regimental funds of the Paramilitary force on his wife’s clothing, hair dressing and other gifts.

Defence Ministry, in turn, has forwarded complaints in this regard against Roy to the ministry of home affairs, under which Assam Rifles functions in the Northeastern states in a counter-insurgency role.

“We have got some complaints and we have forwarded the matter to the home ministry for further action,” Defence Minister AK Antony told reporters in response to a question on the alleged misuse of funds and a formal probe against Roy.

Meanwhile, Defence Ministry sources said Army Chief General VK Singh has written to Home Secretary RK Singh demanding the repatriation of Roy, a serving army officer, to his parent force.

The army headquarters, the sources said, had documentary evidence that the officer spent at least Rs 23,000 of regimental funds of Assam Rifles for personal expenses, especially on his wife.

An initial probe conducted by the army headquarters, New Delhi had established the authenticity of the documents. As and when he is sent back to the army, Roy is all set to face a formal court of inquiry.
Lt Gen Roy, who belongs to the Jammu and Kashmir Rifles regiment, took over as Director General, Assam Rifles in December last year.

money well spent i think eh

[boris]

since we have drifted to character etc of forces take a butchers at this.

http://www.nagalandpost.com/ChannelNews ... M35c9D8%3d

DGAR may face action for misusing funds
NEW DELHI, SEP 27 (IANS) :Published on 28 Sep. 2011 1:39 AM IST


Indian Army has sought the government’s permission to initiate a formal probe against Assam Rifles Director General, Lieutenant General Rameshwar Roy on charges of spending regimental funds of the Paramilitary force on his wife’s clothing, hair dressing and other gifts.

Defence Ministry, in turn, has forwarded complaints in this regard against Roy to the ministry of home affairs, under which Assam Rifles functions in the Northeastern states in a counter-insurgency role.

“We have got some complaints and we have forwarded the matter to the home ministry for further action,” Defence Minister AK Antony told reporters in response to a question on the alleged misuse of funds and a formal probe against Roy.

Meanwhile, Defence Ministry sources said Army Chief General VK Singh has written to Home Secretary RK Singh demanding the repatriation of Roy, a serving army officer, to his parent force.

The army headquarters, the sources said, had documentary evidence that the officer spent at least Rs 23,000 of regimental funds of Assam Rifles for personal expenses, especially on his wife.

An initial probe conducted by the army headquarters, New Delhi had established the authenticity of the documents. As and when he is sent back to the army, Roy is all set to face a formal court of inquiry.
Lt Gen Roy, who belongs to the Jammu and Kashmir Rifles regiment, took over as Director General, Assam Rifles in December last year.

money well spent i think eh

speaking of the assam rifles one of the CO's of an AR unit is col. hemento panging from manipur i think,ex 9 para SF and from what i have heard a deadly commando

[boris]

its a systematic process where in they break you down mentally and physically, and then build you up the right way.
lets talk about their decision making skills.
does anyone know the methodology used to arrive at decisions by these guys?

i think its the training and more so the constant practice they do,every day these guys have a mock mission or CQB in kill house and they practice on and on every day,i think after this level of practice the decision making becomes part of their instinct or rather a part of them.

would love your inputs on this

[Safarigent]

thats what everyone thinks.
recently, a decision making concept called the CLEAR model is being incorporated.
Its basically Clarify, Look, Evaluate, Act, Review.
Simple but deadly efficient.
instinctive decisions can be wrong for one might falter at any of these steps. the decisions are arrived at through this process, only you and i will take longer than them. A CQB training house is where this comes out at its best. you cant instinctively shoot at any target you see, while i might, the SF operator will have arrived at a CLEAR decision and done his job. Every other scenario that you can think of utilizes this concept.