TOKAREV PISTOL .30 CALIBER (7.62MM)

[eljefe]

"packing a TT33 in their waistband on half cock". Do, and that's exactly what you may end up with.

+10

Unless there's a term called 'quartercock' ? but that depends on the surgeon...

[nagarifle]

sounds like cock and pull to me

[ashish73sharma]

hi,
i am a service officer and due to receive a NSP 9mm pistol shortly , can some one clarify the rule position with respect to endorsement of this wpn on NPB licence.
can this allotment entitle me to stake a claim for PB licence
regards
Ashish

[Anand]

Hello Ashish,
First off, let me thank you for your services rendered to our country.

My understanding is that a NSP weapon (which means Non Service Pattern) is a weapon that does not conform to the type in use as a standard by the armed forces in any significant quantity. There fore eligible for allotment to officers.
If the 9mm caliber you mention, is any caliber other than the service 9mm(9mm P /9mm Luger) then it would be NPB such as 9mm Makarov or 9mm Short /.380 ACP or 9x21mm or 9x25mm etc.
If the 9mm pistol alloted to you, can be shown to be a non prohibited bore (basically, service 9mm ammo must not chamber and fire in it) it can be endorsed on a license as an NP Bore firearm.
If the NSP 9mm pistol in question is a PBore, then you will have to apply to the MHA for a PB license. Whether it will be issued solely on the strength of the fact that you were alloted a PBore 9mm pistol in the services, I dont know.
Regards,
Anand

[gunman]

"packing a TT33 in their waistband on half cock". Do, and that's exactly what you may end up with.

+10

Unless there's a term called 'quartercock' ? but that depends on the surgeon...

One must also consider a possibility of a "nocock"

[Katana]

I was speaking to someone today about the interchangeability of ammunition in the TT30 and its Chinese counterpart the TT213(7.62x25) as against the Mauser C96 (.30) (7.63x25). What I was told is that the Mauser round fires in the TT 30/213 but does not eject.

Does anyone have any experience with this? Is it true?

[TwoRivers]

The 7.62x25 Tokarev round is simply the 7.63x25 Mauser round back-engineered by the Russians. The Tokarev round is rated at slightly lower pressure than the Mauser. However, some military surplus (Czech) is loaded hotter, though I have not seen any pressure test results.
There are slight differences in some of the cartridge dimensions; but usually the two are interchangeable in most chambers. My Mauser C96 will accept and function with Tokarev ammo, my Tokarev will do so with Mauser ammo.
Velocity for the Mauser was usually listed at 1440 fps, the Tokarev at 1387 fps, with the same 86 grain bullet. QuickLOAD indicates that velocity can be increased considerably for the Mauser, while staying withing the pressure limit. It is, however, factory loaded to 1400-1450 fps; whereas new commercial American loads go higher for the Tokarev. Whether they are within CIP established pressure limits, I do not know.

[denong]

hi guys,
i hope it not illegal in india but, has anyone tried to modify their tt's like the grip and sights.how would it look if the originals were replaced by 1911 wrap around grips and the sights replaced by latest 1911 like sights.

regards

[timmy]

Here are some ideas for you:

This guy has the idea, but I could find no grips on the marstar site -

http://hiddendefense.blogspot.com/2008/ ... grips.html

This site has a number of TT33 options:

http://www.marschalgrips.com/tt33wr/tt33wr.htm

Nice, but to expensive, I thought:

http://www.gunsamerica.com/967304804/No ... e_Grip.htm

It seems as if some folks have used Hogue Handall Jr grips like you see here:

http://www.hoguestore.com/index.php?mai ... &cPath=114

Do a google search on TT33 hogue grips to see some discussions of getting these to work.

[arshjeet]

My experience with TOKAREV .30 PISTOL , its fairly reliable has a good punch but its not very accurate handgun i have owned three of kind in past they are less than $200 and ammo is also dirt cheap $250 for 3000 rounds military surplus. if i was living in india i would rather choose 45 acp 1911 over Tokarav, as per my knowledge some people have managed to register them on their NPB licences although its again a matter of debate. My point is its cheaper to buy 1911 45 acp than Tokarav in india, its more reliable more accurate arguabley best self defence round and more dependable too. Again this is my opnion other might not think alike.

[timmy]

The earlier Soviet and Polish TT 33s I've seen are often finished very well. But the Chinese one I have (actually, a 213) is pretty crude. Many TT 33s are crude, which makes them reliable, but not conducive to high marks in the accuracy department.

However, consider: Many people here in the USA, especially those who served in the armed forces when the 1911 was the service arm, complain about the 1911's accuracy, as well. I've often heard such people say: "It won't hit the broadside of a barn" or "It's more accurate and effective to just throw the chunk of iron." I think that there are two reasons for this: First, people with small hands (read: the majority of the public) often have a hard time mastering the 1911, and the loose tolerances of wartime manufacture, or wear of service weapons, makes them loose, as well.

My Dad, who was in the US Army before WW2 and served through that war, was on his regimental target team. Their methods for "accurizing" (they didn't call it that back then) were these: The armorer would strip a bunch of 1911s down and select fit the assorted parts to assemble a tight pistol for target work. Sometimes, Dad said, they would put the slide in a big vice to squeeze it for a tighter fit. It was especially important to get a bushing that was a tight fit to the barrel. (The later Series 70 with the collet bushing largely eliminates this problem.) The other parts went back together for general issue. I suspect that, if one used the same process of select fitting a TT 33 from the parts of many pistols, a reasonably accurate gun might result. One thing that the TT 33 design can't duplicate, however, is the trigger/sear/hammer of the 1911. The short, fat mainspring in a TT 33 mostly resides in a hole in the hammer, and is fiendishly stiff. The whole firing assembly, while good for quick repairs and offering reliable feeding through integral feed lips for quick field repairs, is simply not a design that is as optimal for good shooting as the 1911 system.

Regarding the inherent accuracy of the cartridge itself (7.62x25 versus .45 ACP), I could accept that the .45 ACP is inherently more accurate, but in general shooting, I doubt there would be much difference, based on design. There could be large accuracy differences, based on where the ammunition was made, however.

[arshjeet]

Tim, if you have to pick amongst what is available in indian market, which one you will intend towards Colt, Ithacs 1911 45acps or Tula 30's or Norinco 30's for your self defence and dependentes (family). ?????????????????????

[timmy]

arshjeet, sorry for the late reply: I don't see the TT33, Norinco .30/9mm or any of its derivatives as a good choice for personal defense, unless nothing else is available. It is not safe to carry "cocked and locked" because the cocking notch has been known to break when carrying on half cock, and at full cock, I would not trust them for the same reason, plus any safety was not part of the original design and is suspect. You cannot carry them with a round in the chamber and the hammer down, because they don't have an inertia firing pin. So, the only way they are safe to carry is with the chamber empty, meaning that the slide must be cycled to make them ready for use. They are too unsafe and slow for personal defense, in my opinion. For military use or for plinking fun, they are great guns, whether nicely finished or crude!

[nagarifle]

i do believe a good smithy could put a safety on them. were not some Romania ones came with safety to please the USA laws?

[timmy]

There are 2 kinds of safeties: The Chinese used one that blocks the sear with a lever that is in the same area as a 1911, and the Polish ones use a pivoting trigger block that is above and behind the trigger on the left side.

However, in both cases, this will still not protect against a TT 33 going off when it is dropped on the hammer. Personally, I would not feel safe carrying one with a round in the chamber in any state.

One may argue that a 1911 could possibly go off if the hammer is struck when the pistol is dropped. Perhaps this is so; that's why I've always carried mine with a round in the chamber and the hammer down. It can be brought into action by thumbing back the hammer. This is contrary to the normally accepted way of carrying a 1911, but I feel safer this way and it is made possible by the 1911's inertia firing pin.