The Elusive Trigger
- brihacharan
- Old Timer
- Posts: 3112
- Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2010 3:33 pm
- Location: mumbai
The Elusive Trigger
Hi Guys,
> Here's some food for thought!
> When it comes to tuning your favourite Air Rifle, we all have gone hammer & tongs to import Springs, Seals, Top Hats, Rear Guides, Rear sights, Front Sights and what have you.
> But the ONE ELUSIVE and most important fixture - "The Trigger" is not even considered - WHY? Well people may say it's the question of fitment - well I think its all about a bit of re-engineering - and no one including me has taken the trouble to solve this. But I've now started looking into the possibilities.
> I believe a few IFGians have attempted this - I would welcome them to share their experience.
> All said and done the Trigger contributes a lot to the smooth functioning of the gun and its accuracy - a smooth trigger is always an unsatiated dream of every shooter, atleast for owners of Indian made Air Rifles.
> I am pleased to share some 'Gyan' on Triggers - to those who are a bit unfamiliar with what a Good Trigger is all about , this should make good reading.
The dynamics of the trigger, known as its pull, are one of the most important aspects of usability, since any movement of the firearm caused by pulling the trigger can have an impact on the placement of the shot. Trigger pulls are relative, however. Compare a sport like action shooting, which emphasizes speed and uses relatively close targets with large scoring zones on the targets, to bulls-eye shooting, which uses distant targets with tiny scoring zones. While both types of trigger need a predictable pull, bulls-eye shooters demand a much higher degree of precision.
* Analysis of the trigger pull -
* The trigger pull consists of three stages:
1.Take-up or pre-travel, which is the movement of the trigger which happens before the sear moves.
2.Break - the movement during which the trigger moves the sear to the point of release.
3.Over-travel, which is the distance a trigger moves after the sear releases.
4.The take-up is the least critical stage of the trigger pull, and individual preferences vary widely.
Two stage triggers, for example, consist of a noticeable take-up, followed by a distinct increase in the force required to pull the trigger, followed by the break. A single stage trigger, on the other hand, has no discernible movement before the break. Fully adjustable triggers will provide a two stage pull, and the option of reducing the first stage travel to zero, essentially making the trigger a single stage trigger.
5.The break is a far more critical stage of the pull, as it happens just prior to the shot being fired. Here again, individual preferences vary; some shooters prefer a soft break, where there is a smooth but discernible amount of trigger travel during firing, while others prefer a crisp break, with a heavier weight and little or no discernible movement.
6.The over-travel can be the most critical factor in the trigger pull, as any movement caused at this point will happen as the shot is fired. This is especially important with firearms where there is a sudden release of resistance when the sear breaks, such as in double action triggers. An over-travel stop will arrest the motion of the trigger just after the break, and prevent movement.
Improving the trigger pull
An adjustable trigger may have ways to adjust all of these stages, plus trigger location. For example, a first stage or take-up adjustment might include weight and travel, a second stage or sear engagement adjustment might include weight and travel, and a trigger stop adjustment would limit the over-travel.
While adjustable triggers may provide the greatest level of control, much can be done with standard non-adjustable triggers. Careful hand fitting and polishing of parts, addition of high precision or adjustable aftermarket parts, or fabrication of new parts can greatly improve most triggers. Care should be taken, however, since trigger work requires a great deal of care and precision, and a bad trigger job can easily render a firearm highly unsafe or unusable.
Cheers
Briha
> Here's some food for thought!
> When it comes to tuning your favourite Air Rifle, we all have gone hammer & tongs to import Springs, Seals, Top Hats, Rear Guides, Rear sights, Front Sights and what have you.
> But the ONE ELUSIVE and most important fixture - "The Trigger" is not even considered - WHY? Well people may say it's the question of fitment - well I think its all about a bit of re-engineering - and no one including me has taken the trouble to solve this. But I've now started looking into the possibilities.
> I believe a few IFGians have attempted this - I would welcome them to share their experience.
> All said and done the Trigger contributes a lot to the smooth functioning of the gun and its accuracy - a smooth trigger is always an unsatiated dream of every shooter, atleast for owners of Indian made Air Rifles.
> I am pleased to share some 'Gyan' on Triggers - to those who are a bit unfamiliar with what a Good Trigger is all about , this should make good reading.
The dynamics of the trigger, known as its pull, are one of the most important aspects of usability, since any movement of the firearm caused by pulling the trigger can have an impact on the placement of the shot. Trigger pulls are relative, however. Compare a sport like action shooting, which emphasizes speed and uses relatively close targets with large scoring zones on the targets, to bulls-eye shooting, which uses distant targets with tiny scoring zones. While both types of trigger need a predictable pull, bulls-eye shooters demand a much higher degree of precision.
* Analysis of the trigger pull -
* The trigger pull consists of three stages:
1.Take-up or pre-travel, which is the movement of the trigger which happens before the sear moves.
2.Break - the movement during which the trigger moves the sear to the point of release.
3.Over-travel, which is the distance a trigger moves after the sear releases.
4.The take-up is the least critical stage of the trigger pull, and individual preferences vary widely.
Two stage triggers, for example, consist of a noticeable take-up, followed by a distinct increase in the force required to pull the trigger, followed by the break. A single stage trigger, on the other hand, has no discernible movement before the break. Fully adjustable triggers will provide a two stage pull, and the option of reducing the first stage travel to zero, essentially making the trigger a single stage trigger.
5.The break is a far more critical stage of the pull, as it happens just prior to the shot being fired. Here again, individual preferences vary; some shooters prefer a soft break, where there is a smooth but discernible amount of trigger travel during firing, while others prefer a crisp break, with a heavier weight and little or no discernible movement.
6.The over-travel can be the most critical factor in the trigger pull, as any movement caused at this point will happen as the shot is fired. This is especially important with firearms where there is a sudden release of resistance when the sear breaks, such as in double action triggers. An over-travel stop will arrest the motion of the trigger just after the break, and prevent movement.
Improving the trigger pull
An adjustable trigger may have ways to adjust all of these stages, plus trigger location. For example, a first stage or take-up adjustment might include weight and travel, a second stage or sear engagement adjustment might include weight and travel, and a trigger stop adjustment would limit the over-travel.
While adjustable triggers may provide the greatest level of control, much can be done with standard non-adjustable triggers. Careful hand fitting and polishing of parts, addition of high precision or adjustable aftermarket parts, or fabrication of new parts can greatly improve most triggers. Care should be taken, however, since trigger work requires a great deal of care and precision, and a bad trigger job can easily render a firearm highly unsafe or unusable.
Cheers
Briha
-
- Eminent IFG'an
- Posts: 236
- Joined: Sat Dec 19, 2009 1:55 pm
- Location: Mongoli
Re: The Elusive Trigger
Firstly, I must congratulate you on taking up this subject.
A good trigger, no matter what the type of weapon, is crucial to get good accuracy.
And air gun triggers because of their design and load factor are notorious for being terrible and can often be rendered unsafe if tampered with by amateurs.
And drop in units are neither available or known of to most of us for the typical air gun.
Looking forward to your posts on this.
A good trigger, no matter what the type of weapon, is crucial to get good accuracy.
And air gun triggers because of their design and load factor are notorious for being terrible and can often be rendered unsafe if tampered with by amateurs.
And drop in units are neither available or known of to most of us for the typical air gun.
Looking forward to your posts on this.
- brihacharan
- Old Timer
- Posts: 3112
- Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2010 3:33 pm
- Location: mumbai
Re: The Elusive Trigger
Hi Skeetshot,skeetshot wrote:Firstly, I must congratulate you on taking up this subject.
A good trigger, no matter what the type of weapon, is crucial to get good accuracy.
Looking forward to your posts on this.
> Glad you liked my take on the subject.
> Out of sheer desperation I tried the following on my IHP35 22cal -
1. Dismantled the trigger assembly & also removed the piston
2. Using a 'Jeweler's File smoothened both the sears gently and with utmost care to give them a smooth finish
3. Using a wet cloth-coated emery sheet gave it a further smooth finish & gave the parts a light coat of moly-grease
4. Didn't overdo the job for fear of 'slippage' & causing auto-fire
5. Surprisingly the trigger release turned out to be "Reasonably Smooth"!!! Much better than the original rough feel!
Cheers
Briha
- Basu
- Veteran
- Posts: 1483
- Joined: Wed Apr 08, 2009 7:14 pm
- Location: Salt Lake Kolkata
Re: The Elusive Trigger
I hold a strong view that if the IHP could be fitted with better or sophisticated trigger, its performance
could have been much more consistent and accurate.
Basu
could have been much more consistent and accurate.
Basu
Not all those wander , are lost...............
-
- Eminent IFG'an
- Posts: 236
- Joined: Sat Dec 19, 2009 1:55 pm
- Location: Mongoli
Re: The Elusive Trigger
No need to overdo the job when you are playing with the sear surfaces on any trigger.
Another thing that helps is using slightly oversize pins to remove slop.
Of course, if one wants to get a really safe and light trigger, there is need to add another lever system to the sub assembly , but the luxury of space is rarely available in a gun.
Well done, and a right approach with wet emery. Polishing the bearing surfaces certainly helps.
Another thing that helps is using slightly oversize pins to remove slop.
Of course, if one wants to get a really safe and light trigger, there is need to add another lever system to the sub assembly , but the luxury of space is rarely available in a gun.
Well done, and a right approach with wet emery. Polishing the bearing surfaces certainly helps.
- airgun_novice
- Veteran
- Posts: 1138
- Joined: Sun Sep 12, 2010 11:15 pm
- Location: Mumbai-Thane, India
Re: The Elusive Trigger
Wonderful post. Re-read it thrice just to let the 'gyaan' seep in.
==
O Shea (character): Guns make you nervous ?
Charles Bronson: Guns or the users ? Idiots with guns make me nervous.
(Death Wish V)
O Shea (character): Guns make you nervous ?
Charles Bronson: Guns or the users ? Idiots with guns make me nervous.
(Death Wish V)
-
- Learning the ropes
- Posts: 39
- Joined: Wed Feb 10, 2010 7:34 pm
Re: The Elusive Trigger
Like this thread! Being mechanically inclined I have tuned up some triggers in airguns including HW80's rekord trigger.
Did some work on a daystate PH6 and a really good tune up on a gamo unit fitted on the early Rapids.
I love the gamo unit after placing some brass washers, spring changes, custom trigger shoe and some precise grinding and polishing work.
Though this unit has a false 1st stage it is my favourite.
On a note of personal advise I don't recommend polishing bearing and sliding surfaces to a mirror finish as this
tends to pool the lubricant. Finishing to about 400 grit wet-o-dry works great and the lube stays on to do the job.
Did some work on a daystate PH6 and a really good tune up on a gamo unit fitted on the early Rapids.
I love the gamo unit after placing some brass washers, spring changes, custom trigger shoe and some precise grinding and polishing work.
Though this unit has a false 1st stage it is my favourite.
On a note of personal advise I don't recommend polishing bearing and sliding surfaces to a mirror finish as this
tends to pool the lubricant. Finishing to about 400 grit wet-o-dry works great and the lube stays on to do the job.
-
- Fresh on the boat
- Posts: 7
- Joined: Mon Oct 03, 2011 2:13 am
Re: The Elusive Trigger
How hard is it to import triggers made for airguns here? Thanks
-
- Veteran
- Posts: 1906
- Joined: Tue Apr 06, 2010 9:55 am
- Location: tamilnadu,india
Re: The Elusive Trigger
you don't have to import,Mr.bricharan has a good contact in chennai,who can help you with everything you need for an airrifle.he will definetly help you with your triggers.ddgrego wrote:How hard is it to import triggers made for airguns here? Thanks
- ak27
- Almost at nirvana
- Posts: 162
- Joined: Sun Aug 28, 2011 11:12 pm
- Location: Illinois
Re: The Elusive Trigger
I think the trigger over-travel has NO significance in springers.
Please correct me if i am wrong.
cheers,
aditya kona
Please correct me if i am wrong.
cheers,
aditya kona
"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety" - Ben Franklin