Disaster or Survival Firearms Situation SHTF

[Anand]

First off, while we have our limitations in India, with the number of firearms and ammo allowed legally, I was wondering what the majority of licensees have in terms of a survival "cache" (if you can call it that ).
While I lived in the USA I had several handguns of different calibers and just one rifle in .303. I felt that was adequate and also the logic was, if I had to arm any immediate friends or associates, it would be less cumbersome to carry a handgun for defense. I know , I know I was far less experienced then..

Here in India, I would probably have to re think the situation! I do own 2 hand guns and a rifle. But I would also like to own a .22 Rifle and a shotgun in addition to the above. Unfortunately, the first is a possibility (because of NRAI membership) but the second can only happen if the laws are changed.

The logic I followed is like this: In a survival situation such as if a disaster strikes,like a Tsunami or Hurricane or what ever, traditionally law and order take a hit and looting of shops, attacks on home owners for supplies like food, water shelter etc are known to happen. In such a scenario,the best defense would probably be a pump action shotgun, with handguns being easier to conceal and transport, if you had to get out of there quick.

Rifles could be used for a hunting application in times of prolonged meat scarcity if the law permitted it but that is debatable since the only permits I have heard of recently are for wild pigs and some deer causing crop damage.

Assuming you could have 3 firearms + one .22 rifle as Member of a Rifle association what would you keep, with regard to the above mentioned situation?
I would have:
1. Handgun of .30 or .32 caliber
2. Shotgun Pump Action of 12 Bore
3. Rifle of .315 or 30-06 caliber
4. Rifle of .22 LR caliber
5. .22 Air rifle

One of the main reasons for the above is (relatively) easy availability of ammo. The other factors are: The shotgun can be used for self defense and hunting(if legally permitted) although sacrificing concealability. The handgun is most concealable but the trade off is lack of power and lack of availability of more powerful ammo even if you have something like a .44 Mag. The medium caliber rifle is for longer range defense/ hunting and the .22 would have to be mostly for hunting and practice as would the air rifle be. All three cannot be concealed and still be easily "deployable".

Of course, in conjunction with other family members you could have more firearms, but mobility may be sacrificed.

What would you have?

Regards,
Anand

[MoA]

If a SHTF situation does occur in India, the MOB mentality will generally take over. Hence the best defense would be to have your own posse.

That being said to ward off a posse you will need more than one gun.

Personally though I own a number of guns, I dont think in a SHTF they would be very useful.

[Bruno22]

A 'Bug out bag' would be a better option in the event of any disaster. You can find many 'cocktails' for this on the net and youtube. This is also called a grab bag.
MoA rightly points out that generally mob mentality will take over and a lone gunman would only infuriate the mob to do something irrational. Generally a fair amount of money and some tradable stuff like gold may also be added to the bag to buy ones way out of situations or get on to some kind of transport to safety or buy medical help.
Regards
Bruno22

[nagarifle]

wrong thinking gents, when a natural disaster hits, the after effect is lack of food/water medicine etc, people rather have food water then tv set. why is that? simple! no food and no water can be had as the storm etc has destroyed it all. so no electricity no need for tv etc. so a safe hideout with supplies is a must. then one can think about arms etc. any grab bag etc must contain such items as water and food with medicine, as immediately after a disaster one needs to find a safe shelter etc before going hunting.

just remember that if you have noting then no mob is going to go after you.

as for arms think in general purpose rather then individual tools for each occasion ie for hunting/protection a rifle and or shotgun, knife and handgun. now do not forget that the law of the land will be in suspended animation for a while until control is established. happy international disaster prevention day to all

[TwoRivers]

Gold, "to buy ones way out of situations" won't do you much good. Whoever put you in that situation will just take it away from you, along with anything else of yours they might fancy.

[goodboy_mentor]

Here in India, I would probably have to re think the situation! I do own 2 hand guns and a rifle. But I would also like to own a .22 Rifle and a shotgun in addition to the above. Unfortunately, the first is a possibility (because of NRAI membership) but the second can only happen if the laws are changed.

If you refer http://indiansforguns.com/viewtopic.php ... 30#p130409 don't you think Arms Act 1959 is saying not just 3+1 in your case rather it is not placing any restriction on number of firearms for you(as well as all those who are members of ANY rifle club or rifle association licensed or recognized by the Central Government.)

just remember that if you have noting then no mob is going to go after you.

Not everybody will have "nothing", most of us will also have female family members. Since there is no law and order, the "unprotected" females will become the most attractive and easy targets for criminal elements to conduct kidnappings and raping etc., hence the firearms and sufficient quantity of ammunition are indispensable.

Gold, "to buy ones way out of situations" won't do you much good. Whoever put you in that situation will just take it away from you, along with anything else of yours they might fancy.

Absolutely correct unless you are lucky to find someone "honest" to trade gold for goods.

[Bruno22]

Gold, "to buy ones way out of situations" won't do you much good. Whoever put you in that situation will just take it away from you, along with anything else of yours they might fancy.

I am not talking about huge bars of gold. Just some small gold coins (the type that the bank sell) because they are more concealable like in your socks or even in your pocket. Looters will go for your wallet not anticipating that you have double or triple the amount safe somewhere. The same amount in cash would be a lot more bulky and visible. Anyway in a bad situation they will even take away your matchbox.
The gold could also be used in a 'after the worst is over' situation when you need some money. Also its universal in terms of value.

[shooter]

Gold, "to buy ones way out of situations" won't do you much good. Whoever put you in that situation will just take it away from you, along with anything else of yours they might fancy.

I am not talking about huge bars of gold. Just some small gold coins (the type that the bank sell) because they are more concealable like in your socks or even in your pocket. Looters will go for your wallet not anticipating that you have double or triple the amount safe somewhere. The same amount in cash would be a lot more bulky and visible. Anyway in a bad situation they will even take away your matchbox.
The gold could also be used in a 'after the worst is over' situation when you need some money. Also its universal in terms of value.

After the gujrat earthquake food/water and milk was exchanged for gold jewellery.

[TwoRivers]

Bruno22: It seems that you are combining two scenarios, total breakdown of law and order, everyone on his own; and aftermath of a disaster, with people desperate and hungry, but law and order still not totally absent. What makes you think the bad guys won't make you strip, including your socks?

[timmy]

When law and order breaks down, there will be roving bands of goons. At first, one may be able to defend one's self and family against these sorts of gangs. But soon, it will be known that one has the means to defend one's self, and the guns and resources one owns will be the target of a more determined set of goons who have a plan.

With gold or money, it will be the same way. If one has only a few coins, it is going to cost a gold coin to get a sandwich or a bottle of water. The "conductor" will not have change. If one has a stash of gold coins, it will not be long before others figure this out and develop a plan to relieve the owner of the coins of their stash.

The idea of all of this survivalist stuff is that everyone is an individualist "Marlboro Man" who can stand on his own as the captain of his fate. However, the human being is a social creature and since the early days, survival was much more a matter of banding together than it was of individual heros, no matter how attractive the movies may make the latter look.

Having a the means to protect one's self is an important thing. The recent unrest in Egypt shows that having a weapon in those kinds of cases is important. But survival in these circumstances will depend on forming alliances, groups, and communities that can protect themselves. Going back to the Egyptian example, that is a story of people acting in concert, not of individual Marlboro Men or heros from a Louis Lamour novel standing tall and serving up the bad guy his just desserts.

In these kinds of cases having a weapon or two could well mean the difference between life or death. However, an "arsenal" will be useless, as caring for an arsenal isn't going to be the major consideration in a SHTF event: that will be one's own survival, and the survival of one's family.

I think that this means something one can carry around. In an urban setting, this is going to be a handgun and/or a convenient shotgun. In a rural setting, a rifle may be appropriate. The situation could well devolve into having only what one can carry, including the total supply of ammunition.

[MoA]

You will be better off stocking up on MRE's et al, and in the event of a disaster lock the house, doors, try not to show you are still around and stay put.

Or have enough guns to arm your own private army. Which will make anything available to you provided you can be a true SOB.

Remember that in a gun fight if you need to reload, there arent enough guns firing alongside you. For suppresive fire it is difficult to beat a 12 ga. Ideallyo you would have a lot of Valmet/Saiga 12's shooting in the direction you are.

If you are interested in survival in a plausible SHTF scenario read the rantings of FerFal. Otherwise get the images of standing knee deep in spent casings warding off a posse, while protecting a harem of PB Centerfolds out of your imagination.

Most SHTF scenarios are akin to the ramblings of Mall Ninja. (Do google-fu and laugh your brains out).

[xl_target]

The ultimate SHTF gun?

[youtube][/youtube]
[youtube][/youtube]

Fifteen rounds of 12 ga persuasion in a compact package
One of its two mag tubes loaded with Buckshot and the other with slugs would allow the ability to take care of a number of different threats
I believe the mag selection switch, when put in the center will allow you to load the chamber with singles.

I think it is brilliant, something really innovative from a firearms industry that has not done much but maintain the status quo for a very longtime.

As the author says; "a lot of people don't get it". Read more HERE


The closest thing available to it is the South African NS200 (Baljit showed a photo of one). They look alike and share some features but the actions are totally different.
I believe that the NS200 is not legal in the US. See his photos HERE


There was also the Winter Swatriplex-18, a semiauto semi-bullpup design with twin 9 round tube magazines. A bit long though.

More info HERE

[timmy]

I am thinking that the problem with a shotgun is that each round is so large and bulky. No doubt, at least in the city, one can sweep streets with it, but how many rounds of ammo can one carry? Not many.

What is needed is something where each round is relatively small, but potent. Also, it needs to be pretty common. This would probably mean a 9mm handgun with many high capacity magazines, I think.

[Priyan]

Here in our state pull a gun out and all mob mentality will vaporize in seconds.
I have seen it myself. About a year ago a boy died in road accident here and people blamed it on the doctors thinking they neglected the boy. A few people surrounded the head doctor and was about to beat him up but he suddenly pulled out a revolver and all backed off (That was the first time I saw a gun in the hands on a civilian)
Also it would be better to have a bag prepared with survival utility like knife, first-aid, food, water flashlight etc.

[youtube][/youtube]

This would be more fun if it was legal. Man laws were supposed to protect our freedom not to cuff us

[dr.jayakumar]

if a situation arises i could take my guns ans escape to a near by forest and live happily there after!like in movies!!