INSAS

[eljefe]

TRX,
Atleast the bedpan mechanics got one thing right!
I wish they had also used the SMLE bayonets, which are a fry cry ahead of the POS issued right now

[Sakobav]

here is the INSAS II any ideas folks what is the new reincarnation
May be it was posted before

http://idrw.org/?p=1646


DRDO working on Next Gen INSAS rifle for Indian Army

By admin at 2 December, 2010, 9:59 am

BY: PTI

In three years from now, army soldiers will have two new modern, indigenous rifles at their disposal instead of the standard INSAS rifle, allowing them to operate effectively in urban or jungle environment.

The DRDO is working on a Future-INSAS rifle to go along with the under-development future infantry soldier project that the Indian defence establishments are currently working on, DRDO’s Chief Controller of Research and Development (Armament and Combat Engineering) S Sunderesh said here today.

It is also working on a new single-hand operated carbine, he said.

INSAS stands for Indian Small Arms System and is a family of infantry arms consisting of an assault rifle, a light machine gun and a carbine.

The 5.56mm by 45mm calibre weapon will be replaced by the Future-INSAS, a prototype for which is currently in development stage.

“We are always trying to incorporate new technology into existing rifle systems. We are currently working on a future INSAS rifle which can be integrated into the Future Infantry Soldier project by including a sensor and a thermal imaging device onto the rifle itself,” Pune-based Armament Research and Development Establishment (ARDE) Director Anil M Dattar said.

The ARDE has started working on the new rifle so that it could give night vision to the soldier through thermal imaging sensors integrated onto the weapon system.

“Usually Thermal Imagers are available in larger weapon systems or as stand alones. We are trying to miniaturise the TI sensors to fit it on the Future-INSAS,” Date said.

The basic idea was that the future soldier, sent into a counter-insurgency or anti-terrorist operation in an urban or a jungle environment, has a handy weapon that he could use.

Joining the Future-INSAS family of weapons will be a modern sub-machine carbine with 5.56mm by 30mm calibre incorporating both a pistol and a rifle design, so that the soldier can fire the weapon using just one hand.

“Obviously it will be light weight and have less power than F-INSAS and hence can be fired with one hand. But it will still be lethal and effective,” Dattar said.

The future rifle and carbine will come alongside the Future Infantry Soldier project, which itself will be completed in three phases.

The first phase of the Future Infantry Soldier project would be completed in three years.

[eljefe]

[Sakobav]

Well here is another thing from India Today OFB built a factory in Amethi ( ) but they have no gun to produce..
Aptly titled GHOST GHUNS

From India Today

http://indiatoday.intoday.in/site/Story ... -guns.html
Weapons
The DRDO's 5.56 mm MSMC (left) and the OFB's Amough carbine

Any idea whats up?

Nearly three years ago, Amethi's young MP Rahul Gandhi unveiled the foundation stone for a Rs 408-crore factory in his constituency. The Gandhi scion commended the jawans of the Indian Army for laying down their lives to defend the country in regions as geographically diverse as the Siachen Glacier and the dunes of Rajasthan. "It is our duty to ensure that top-of-the-line and world-class equipment be made available to them," he added. There was also a history to his statement. Just two years earlier, the army projected a requirement for over 4 lakh sophisticated 5.56 mm carbines, a compact automatic weapon meant for close quarter combat. Two types of carbines were required-2 lakh close combat carbines to be imported and licence produced and 2 lakh protective carbines would be made by the Ordnance Factory Board (OFB). These would equip nearly half the 1.1 million-strong army. The deal was worth Rs 6,583 crore, easily the world's single largest contract for importing small arms. With an assured order for nearly three lakh carbines, including 1.6 lakh imported weapons that would follow from the close quarter battle (CQB) contract, Amethi was set to become India's hub for sophisticated small arms.

Over two-and-a-half years later, Rahul would be embarrassed to be associated with the project. The factory buildings at what will be the OFB's 41st plant are just a year away from inauguration. It turns out that putting up the buildings was the easy part, for the defence ministry does not have a carbine to build in the Rs 13.6-crore plant. The Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) and OFB designed weapon have failed to pass the army's tests. Its plans to import carbines continues to be stuck in red tape. "Without a weapon being selected, we cannot order the specialised machinery required to build them," says an OFB official. The factory is a testimonial to bureaucracy, bungling and delays in the defence public sector and a yawing capability gap staring at foot soldiers fighting Maoists in central India, insurgents in the North-east and in Jammu and Kashmir.

Rahul
Rahul laying the foundation stone of the Rs 408-crore factory at Amethi.
The factory project has drawn heavy fire from the Comptroller and Auditor General (CAG) whose report calls it 'ill-conceived and tardy' and has asked the government for an urgent review. But the clump of empty factory buildings is only part of the story. It will be at least five years before a jawan in either Siachen or Rajasthan can hold a weapon that rolls out of the plant. With the army unhappy with the indigenous INSAS rifles and using the sturdy but ageing AK-47 for its counter-insurgency operations, the requirement for new assault rifles and carbines remains as important today as it was five years ago: "Right now, the infantry is utterly neglected and is desperate for a modern assault rifle or a carbine," says a senior infantry official.

The need was first felt in October 2005, when the army cited an 'urgent operational requirement' for a new close quarter carbine. This is officialese for a virtual alarm. The army was progressively phasing out the British designed 9 mm 1A1 'Sterling', a weapon with a distinctive banana shaped magazine developed after the Second World War and mass produced by the OFB since the 1960s. The DRDO designed compact INSAS carbine (among a troika including an assault rifle and light machine gun) had been rejected a decade earlier. In April 2006, the Ministry of Defence (MoD) green-lighted the proposal for a new carbine producing factory and a site-selection committee zeroed-in on two sites: the OFB's Field Gun Factory (FGF) in Kanpur and surplus land at the Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) plant in Korwa, Amethi.
.
It is still unclear why the OFB wanted to set up a new factory when three of their small arms factories at Tiruchirapalli, Kanpur and Ishapore near Kolkata were running at less than half their capacity. Even its busiest Rifle Factory at Ishapore, with a capacity of 80,000 assault rifles had been producing just 50,000 rifles for the past three years. "Producing small arms to expand the facilities at any of these three locations would mean spending just Rs 50 crore," says an OFB official. It was not the first time that a factory was being set up for political considerations, but the OFB did not even learn from its earlier experience of setting up its 40th factory, the ordnance factory in Nalanda, then defence minister George Fernandes' gift to his constituency. The project was to be completed in 2005 but despite a spend of over Rs 2,160 crore, it is yet to be commence production.

The OFB's Tiruchirapalli small arms plant had 1,300 acres of surplus land that was fenced but it wasn't even considered. The OFB's FGF in Kanpur had 200 acres of surplus land. This was not to be. The OFB rolled out a number of excuses why its Kanpur factory could not be used to manufacture the carbine. Why Amethi was chosen is anybody's guess because the MoD specifically instructed its site selection committee to 'use only available surplus defence land to avoid problems like land acquisition and rehabilitation and to avoid overall expenditure'.


When HAL offered the OFB 34 acres, it did not take into account the fact that this land was barely sufficient for the factory. The OFB ended up asking the Uttar Pradesh government for more land to build houses for the factory employees, a request that is still pending. Meanwhile, DRDO and OFB efforts to design carbines for the huge army order hit road blocks. The OFB's 'Amough' a 5.56 mm carbine that superficially resembled an AK-47 was rejected outright by the army several times between 2006 and 2009. The DRDO-designed 5.56 mm modern sub machine carbine (MSMC) was also pronounced unfit for induction by the army. The OFB and DRDO were asked to work together on a new design. Last year, the two partners modified the DRDO's MSMC carbine and now plan to hand it over to the army for trials in early October. DRDO officials say the carbine could be ready for production within a year but only if it passes the army's stringent trials. If these delays weren't enough, the carbine deal was nearly scuppered last year by a whiff of corruption when former OFB chairman Sudipta Ghosh was arrested by the Central Bureau of Investigation. Ghosh had allegedly received bribes from several vendors including Singapore Technologies, a bidder for the army's carbine contract as well as a prospective collaborator to build 48,000 weapons in India for the home ministry.

The army, meanwhile, is having troubles of its own trying to import a new CQB carbine which it had so desperately wanted five years ago. It sent out a request for proposals (RFPs) to several global small arms manufacturers like Heckler and Koch, Colt and FN Herstal in April 2007 but withdrew it a few months later. A fresh proposal was sent out in April the next year but withdrawn in June 2009. Army officials say a series of factors repeatedly scuppered the contract: insisting on weapon sights (not made by small arms firms), disagreements with other partners like the OFB, and offset clauses mandated for purchases over Rs 300 crore. If fresh RFPs are issued today and all goes well, army officials estimate at least two more years just to acquire new carbines.

"The problem is a cumbersome acquisition procedure involving the army, the ministry, defence production ministry and defence acquisition council, each with their own bureaucracies," says defence analyst Brigadier Rahul Bhonsle (retired). OFB officials say part of the problem has to do with the army's vacillation. "The army is not clear on what it wants. Their last carbine RFP did not even specify the calibre of the weapon," says B.S. Bhatia, former member of the OFB. With the carbine import-and-build proposal now buried under a pile of pending requests for infantry modernisation bulletproof jackets, helmets and night sights-the army plans to float yet another RFP for two lakh assault rifles worth nearly Rs 5,000 crore. One more proposal to add its already bloated pending wishlist.

With no weapon in sight to make at a plant which is fast nearing completion, the OFB made a last ditch attempt to make it relevant. Last year, they suggested that the plant be used to manufacture sporting rifles, another fact heavily criticised by the CAG. In the current stalemate the CAG has questioned the necessity for continuing with the Korwa project and asks for a cost-benefit analysis of setting up a new factory, now just an academic argument. The world's largest small arms buy is already a big embarrassment for the MoD.

BREECH LOCK

The world's largest procurement of small arms-over 6 lakh carbines and rifles worth over Rs 11,000 crore-for the army and police forces has been delayed by over five years due to development delays and bureaucratic hurdles in the defence ministry

What: Close Quarter Battle Carbine

How many: 43,318 to be purchased, 1.6 lakh to be manufactured

How much: Rs 4,400 crore

Status: Cleared by Defence Acquisition Council (DAC) in February 2006. RFPs issued twice and cancelled. Army yet to issue fresh RFPs.

What: New Generation Protective Carbine

How many: 2,18,320 carbines to be designed and made indigenously

How much: Rs 2,183 crore

Status: Cleared by DAC in February 2006. OFB design rejected by army in 2009. DRDO design selected with modifications. Trials slated for early October 2010.

What: New Generation Assault Rifles

How many: 2,00,000 weapons to be imported off the shelf

How much: Rs 4,949 crore

Status: Cleared by DAC in November 2009. It was meant to replace the 5.56 mm INSAS rifles in frontline army service. RFPs to be sent out to manufacturers.

[Raj Malhotra]

A new offering from OFB


http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/5933/r762sniper.jpg

From DFI

http://defenceforumindia.com/showthread ... 708&page=5

[boris]

Well here is another thing from India Today OFB built a factory in Amethi ( ) but they have no gun to produce..
Aptly titled GHOST GHUNS

From India Today

http://indiatoday.intoday.in/site/Story ... -guns.html
Weapons
The DRDO's 5.56 mm MSMC (left) and the OFB's Amough carbine

Any idea whats up?

Nearly three years ago, Amethi's young MP Rahul Gandhi unveiled the foundation stone for a Rs 408-crore factory in his constituency. The Gandhi scion commended the jawans of the Indian Army for laying down their lives to defend the country in regions as geographically diverse as the Siachen Glacier and the dunes of Rajasthan. "It is our duty to ensure that top-of-the-line and world-class equipment be made available to them," he added. There was also a history to his statement. Just two years earlier, the army projected a requirement for over 4 lakh sophisticated 5.56 mm carbines, a compact automatic weapon meant for close quarter combat. Two types of carbines were required-2 lakh close combat carbines to be imported and licence produced and 2 lakh protective carbines would be made by the Ordnance Factory Board (OFB). These would equip nearly half the 1.1 million-strong army. The deal was worth Rs 6,583 crore, easily the world's single largest contract for importing small arms. With an assured order for nearly three lakh carbines, including 1.6 lakh imported weapons that would follow from the close quarter battle (CQB) contract, Amethi was set to become India's hub for sophisticated small arms.

Over two-and-a-half years later, Rahul would be embarrassed to be associated with the project. The factory buildings at what will be the OFB's 41st plant are just a year away from inauguration. It turns out that putting up the buildings was the easy part, for the defence ministry does not have a carbine to build in the Rs 13.6-crore plant. The Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) and OFB designed weapon have failed to pass the army's tests. Its plans to import carbines continues to be stuck in red tape. "Without a weapon being selected, we cannot order the specialised machinery required to build them," says an OFB official. The factory is a testimonial to bureaucracy, bungling and delays in the defence public sector and a yawing capability gap staring at foot soldiers fighting Maoists in central India, insurgents in the North-east and in Jammu and Kashmir.

Rahul
Rahul laying the foundation stone of the Rs 408-crore factory at Amethi.
The factory project has drawn heavy fire from the Comptroller and Auditor General (CAG) whose report calls it 'ill-conceived and tardy' and has asked the government for an urgent review. But the clump of empty factory buildings is only part of the story. It will be at least five years before a jawan in either Siachen or Rajasthan can hold a weapon that rolls out of the plant. With the army unhappy with the indigenous INSAS rifles and using the sturdy but ageing AK-47 for its counter-insurgency operations, the requirement for new assault rifles and carbines remains as important today as it was five years ago: "Right now, the infantry is utterly neglected and is desperate for a modern assault rifle or a carbine," says a senior infantry official.

The need was first felt in October 2005, when the army cited an 'urgent operational requirement' for a new close quarter carbine. This is officialese for a virtual alarm. The army was progressively phasing out the British designed 9 mm 1A1 'Sterling', a weapon with a distinctive banana shaped magazine developed after the Second World War and mass produced by the OFB since the 1960s. The DRDO designed compact INSAS carbine (among a troika including an assault rifle and light machine gun) had been rejected a decade earlier. In April 2006, the Ministry of Defence (MoD) green-lighted the proposal for a new carbine producing factory and a site-selection committee zeroed-in on two sites: the OFB's Field Gun Factory (FGF) in Kanpur and surplus land at the Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) plant in Korwa, Amethi.
.
It is still unclear why the OFB wanted to set up a new factory when three of their small arms factories at Tiruchirapalli, Kanpur and Ishapore near Kolkata were running at less than half their capacity. Even its busiest Rifle Factory at Ishapore, with a capacity of 80,000 assault rifles had been producing just 50,000 rifles for the past three years. "Producing small arms to expand the facilities at any of these three locations would mean spending just Rs 50 crore," says an OFB official. It was not the first time that a factory was being set up for political considerations, but the OFB did not even learn from its earlier experience of setting up its 40th factory, the ordnance factory in Nalanda, then defence minister George Fernandes' gift to his constituency. The project was to be completed in 2005 but despite a spend of over Rs 2,160 crore, it is yet to be commence production.

The OFB's Tiruchirapalli small arms plant had 1,300 acres of surplus land that was fenced but it wasn't even considered. The OFB's FGF in Kanpur had 200 acres of surplus land. This was not to be. The OFB rolled out a number of excuses why its Kanpur factory could not be used to manufacture the carbine. Why Amethi was chosen is anybody's guess because the MoD specifically instructed its site selection committee to 'use only available surplus defence land to avoid problems like land acquisition and rehabilitation and to avoid overall expenditure'.


When HAL offered the OFB 34 acres, it did not take into account the fact that this land was barely sufficient for the factory. The OFB ended up asking the Uttar Pradesh government for more land to build houses for the factory employees, a request that is still pending. Meanwhile, DRDO and OFB efforts to design carbines for the huge army order hit road blocks. The OFB's 'Amough' a 5.56 mm carbine that superficially resembled an AK-47 was rejected outright by the army several times between 2006 and 2009. The DRDO-designed 5.56 mm modern sub machine carbine (MSMC) was also pronounced unfit for induction by the army. The OFB and DRDO were asked to work together on a new design. Last year, the two partners modified the DRDO's MSMC carbine and now plan to hand it over to the army for trials in early October. DRDO officials say the carbine could be ready for production within a year but only if it passes the army's stringent trials. If these delays weren't enough, the carbine deal was nearly scuppered last year by a whiff of corruption when former OFB chairman Sudipta Ghosh was arrested by the Central Bureau of Investigation. Ghosh had allegedly received bribes from several vendors including Singapore Technologies, a bidder for the army's carbine contract as well as a prospective collaborator to build 48,000 weapons in India for the home ministry.

The army, meanwhile, is having troubles of its own trying to import a new CQB carbine which it had so desperately wanted five years ago. It sent out a request for proposals (RFPs) to several global small arms manufacturers like Heckler and Koch, Colt and FN Herstal in April 2007 but withdrew it a few months later. A fresh proposal was sent out in April the next year but withdrawn in June 2009. Army officials say a series of factors repeatedly scuppered the contract: insisting on weapon sights (not made by small arms firms), disagreements with other partners like the OFB, and offset clauses mandated for purchases over Rs 300 crore. If fresh RFPs are issued today and all goes well, army officials estimate at least two more years just to acquire new carbines.

"The problem is a cumbersome acquisition procedure involving the army, the ministry, defence production ministry and defence acquisition council, each with their own bureaucracies," says defence analyst Brigadier Rahul Bhonsle (retired). OFB officials say part of the problem has to do with the army's vacillation. "The army is not clear on what it wants. Their last carbine RFP did not even specify the calibre of the weapon," says B.S. Bhatia, former member of the OFB. With the carbine import-and-build proposal now buried under a pile of pending requests for infantry modernisation bulletproof jackets, helmets and night sights-the army plans to float yet another RFP for two lakh assault rifles worth nearly Rs 5,000 crore. One more proposal to add its already bloated pending wishlist.

With no weapon in sight to make at a plant which is fast nearing completion, the OFB made a last ditch attempt to make it relevant. Last year, they suggested that the plant be used to manufacture sporting rifles, another fact heavily criticised by the CAG. In the current stalemate the CAG has questioned the necessity for continuing with the Korwa project and asks for a cost-benefit analysis of setting up a new factory, now just an academic argument. The world's largest small arms buy is already a big embarrassment for the MoD.

BREECH LOCK

The world's largest procurement of small arms-over 6 lakh carbines and rifles worth over Rs 11,000 crore-for the army and police forces has been delayed by over five years due to development delays and bureaucratic hurdles in the defence ministry

What: Close Quarter Battle Carbine

How many: 43,318 to be purchased, 1.6 lakh to be manufactured

How much: Rs 4,400 crore

Status: Cleared by Defence Acquisition Council (DAC) in February 2006. RFPs issued twice and cancelled. Army yet to issue fresh RFPs.

What: New Generation Protective Carbine

How many: 2,18,320 carbines to be designed and made indigenously

How much: Rs 2,183 crore

Status: Cleared by DAC in February 2006. OFB design rejected by army in 2009. DRDO design selected with modifications. Trials slated for early October 2010.

What: New Generation Assault Rifles

How many: 2,00,000 weapons to be imported off the shelf

How much: Rs 4,949 crore

Status: Cleared by DAC in November 2009. It was meant to replace the 5.56 mm INSAS rifles in frontline army service. RFPs to be sent out to manufacturers.

in 2009 i read that izhmash the russian company that holds the legal copyright for the AK series had granted permission to build a factory in india for manufacture of AK 103 rifles ,no idea what would have happened.

infantry for sure isnt getting what it needs luckily special forces got their tavors and recently the m4a1's

[indiaone]

A few months ago I test fired both the INSAS and AK-47. The rate of accuracy of INSAS at 200 mtrs was much better than that of AK-47.There was a certain amount of jerk when the bullet left the barrel in AK-47. In other words , the gun jumped. In the case of INSAS it was much smooth with absolutely no jerk.Some photographs taken during the firing session are available in the link below. Comments are welcome.

https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/sredir? ... feat=email

[saleem]

dear indiaone,
ihe insas may be more accurate and flat shooting than the AK-47, but the 5.56 caliber bullet of insas lacks the stopping power of the 7.62 cal AK bullet which is vital in dangerous missions. No wonder the Israelis are shifting to 6.5 and 6.8 cal bullets to get the best of both worlds,
regards,
Saleem.

[jonahpach]

sombody lock this post

[Sakobav]

Indiaone

Nice pictures but read the earlier posts on the issues with this rifle..sad choice..

Best

[eljefe]

A few months ago I test fired both the INSAS and AK-47. The rate of accuracy of INSAS at 200 mtrs was much better than that of AK-47.There was a certain amount of jerk when the bullet left the barrel in AK-47. In other words , the gun jumped. In the case of INSAS it was much smooth with absolutely no jerk.Some photographs taken during the firing session are available in the link below. Comments are welcome.

https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/sredir? ... feat=email

Indiaone
when you say test fired, there must have been certain criteria involved in the testing, viz,
accuracy from bench, accuracy off hand, barrel lengths
ammo types, bullet weights, velocities,Did you attempt speed reloading drills, firing around obstacles, 1 m drop tests, immersion in mud etc, to name a few

I believe a certain gentleman named Newton also postulated the same as you about the gun jumping when the bullet leaves the barrel...
If the pics are not OSA, I am sure the test results will be open to us too?
you did ask for comments...what did that JCO in the pic have to say? Interested to know end user analysis too.

[The Doc]

Comments are welcome.
https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/sredir? ... feat=email

Nice cuff links.

best,

[goodboy_mentor]

The rate of accuracy of INSAS at 200 mtrs was much better than that of AK-47.

Nice pictures of indiaone firing. But I would like to mention that it is said that AK is so easy to learn and handle that even a child can fire it. With over 75 million built worldwide, the AK-47 is a firearms legend. Comparing AK 47 with INSAS would be an insult to AK 47. What will I do with the accuracy of INSAS if I cannot immediately stop the attacker charging at me? On the other hand AK 47 can help me stay alive. But who can educate our babus at IOFB? They have their own motives, probably they need to show that they are inventing something new. I would like to be the first one to purchase AK 47, the day we are allowed by our Government, may be I am dreaming in fantasy land . A very nice video by Discovery Channel about AK 47 at

No wonder the Israelis are shifting to 6.5 and 6.8 cal bullets to get the best of both worlds,

Yes there were also reports that American and British troops equipped with 5.56 mm rifles had problems stopping the charging insurgents in Iraq and Afghanistan. They were reportedly shifting from 5.56 mm rifles to AK 47s and rifles with 7.62x51 mm rounds.

[eljefe]

some of the tunnel rats in Afghanistan had 7,62x51 in AK's -purpose built...Those JATS would not have been happy with the INSAS, had they been part of the Tiger hill bunch

[target shooter]

Hello guys had a very eventful weekend this week.. Commandant of 54 Assam Rifles Col. Richard Blaize invited a few of us gun buffs to tryout some army small arms and what a day it was..
Will try to upload some of the videos tonight meanwhile here are a few pics

[ Image ]

[ Image ]

[ Image ]

Army Armourers hard at work to keep us on the go
[ Image ]

Speak softly.. carry a big gun
[ Image ]

54 ASSAM RIFLES .

ts