Applying for an Arms License in India

The legal aspects of owning, shooting, importing arms/ ammo and other related legal aspects as well as any other legal queries. Please note: This INCLUDES all arms licensing issues/ queries!
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goodboy_mentor
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Re: Applying for an Arms License in India

Post by goodboy_mentor » Sun Nov 21, 2010 5:18 pm

There is nothing new that you are saying that I have already not stated in my post.
I agree that the problem is certainly not new, but not many people know the reason behind the problem. I have only tried to explain the reasons behind the problem.
Per the new policy the courts do not have to give any directions since the policy itself mandates that all applications be disposed off within 60 days
By new policy do you mean MHA circular to Home Secretaries of all States and Union territories given on 31.3.2010 or Arms Amendment Bill 2010 that is pending approval of Parliament?

If you mean MHA circular, it has no legal value and not binding on Courts. No MHA notification, circular or policy be sent to undermine an act of Parliament i.e. Arms Act 1959 or the Constitutionally guaranteed fundamental rights. Has any LA given in writing that it is denying issue of license because of MHA circular/policy? Can you please say why some LAs have simply stopped receiving license applications? Why they are not receiving applications as before and rejecting them as before by giving in written that MHA circular is the reason for rejecting arms license, if the MHA circular is legal?

If you mean Arms Amendment Bill 2010, it is still pending with Parliament. If we assume that it gets passed in its original form that was tabled in Lok Sabha, it will still be open to judicial review. No law of Parliament can be passed in violation of fundamental rights of citizens. If it is passed it is ultra vires. Also regardless of any law passed by parliament, in order to get their fundamental rights enforced citizens can any time approach High Court under Article 226 and Supreme Court under Article 32.
The case I have cited was out in the papers
I did read that case long time back but I do not remember it properly. But I have given possible reasons in my reply in my previous post above. Can you please confirm that if no facts were suppressed by applicant in his license application and the case was contested in court as a matter of his fundamental right guaranteed by Constitution?
the judiciary for the most part does not like to interfere with the role of the executive
I agree, judiciary cannot interfere in day to day functioning of executive. But if any action of executive is shown to court violating the fundamental rights in Part III, judiciary is fully empowered under Article 266 and 32 to get that fixed.
The few cases in court wrt grant /addition of fire arm etc that are documented on this board haven’t really met with any outcome as yet.
Are you talking about these mentioned at http://indiansforguns.com/viewtopic.php ... 89#p113930 ? and http://indiansforguns.com/viewtopic.php ... 7&start=15

If yes then:
1) Are you saying that these 2 people were not issued arms licenses even after directions were given by court to the LA?
2) Or are you saying that all the later applicants even after these judgments are still facing the same difficulty?

If you are choosing the choice 2, then my answer is: Courts give only those directions for which the relief is being sought by the applicant. In both the cases applicants went to court seeking directions only for themselves and not for all people meaning for directions to be given to the government to correct the problem creating section 13 of Arms Act 1959. The real problem is that people do not know that RKBA is their fundamental right and there is a big shortcoming in Section 13 of Arms Act 1959 which is talking of "prescribed time" only and not "prescribing a specific time" for which almost every applicant is approaching High Court only for himself, to get a specific time for his case or somehow "please" the LA(either by pillar to post or whatever he "thinks" best). I have tried to explain this in my post above at http://indiansforguns.com/viewtopic.php ... 53#p118753 This problem of approaching High Court for almost every applicant will continue till a clear fixed time is given to LA to decide to either issue the license or reject the issue of license giving reasons for the same.
Sure in a genuine case there can be a positive result,but that would be considered an exception rather than a rule.
As I have explained above the shortcoming in Section 13, the applicant does not appear "genuine" to the LA unless he is some big shot. Or he gets directions from High Court forcing the LA to do whatever is wanted by Arms Act 1959 within the time period prescribed by High Court.
I don’t know of any such case,if you do pl do share the details it will help many a member here who is running form pillar to post.
I have already shown you the reason in Section 13, why applicant has to run either "pillar to post" or to High Court because there is no fixed time within which LA has to decide anything. LA can keep sitting on the file indefinitely without either issuing the license or denying the same with reasons.

Having said all this, I would like to say that law is nothing but strong logic and reason that has been codified and put on paper. If a flawed logic is put in a law,then it is bound to create problems for everybody except few high and mighty. This is precisely what is happening. MHA is issuing a policy to favor the high and mighty. People are running here and there in search of "some" solution, but are not able to find and understand where is the real problem. In my opinion the problem has two aspects bcause most of the people are not aware of the following:
1) RKBA is the fundamental right guaranteed by our Constitution. I have tried to explain this at http://indiansforguns.com/viewtopic.php ... 15#p117785
2) The logical faults in Arms Act 1959 which I have tried to explain in this post and also my previous posts preceding this post.

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Re: Applying for an Arms License in India

Post by drifter » Mon Nov 22, 2010 11:03 pm

Dear Goodboy_mentor,

Thanks for the post.

I fully understand what you are saying, it is a fundamental right and cannot be denied on baseless grounds.
Rs 1lakh is high and moreover I cannot use a 12 bore as there is no shotgun range. I don't remember mentioning that I don't know how to use weapons. Well I plan to talk to the issuing authority about the matter,if he can issue me a license for a 30-06 and a 22 rifle I will become a member at the rifle range :lol: . I don't have any other ideas on the issue. This is the fate of most Indian citizens.

Sorry for the delayed reply as I did not have access to the computer.

Reg,
drifter.

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Re: Applying for an Arms License in India

Post by goodboy_mentor » Tue Nov 23, 2010 12:58 am

I don't remember mentioning that I don't know how to use weapons.
This is not a big problem. You can visit the firing range and learn it from someone there.
if he can issue me a license for a 30-06 and a 22 rifle I will become a member at the rifle range
There is no need to write specifically 30-06 or .22, instead you can mention NPB rifle/shotgun in your license application. That would mean any rifle or any shotgun of any non prohibited bore.
"If my mother tongue is shaking the foundations of your State, it probably means that you built your State on my land" - Musa Anter, Kurdish writer, assassinated by the Turkish secret services in 1992

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Re: Applying for an Arms License in India

Post by drifter » Tue Nov 23, 2010 5:16 am

Dear goodboy,

Points taken will try and ask for a NPB.
There is no way one can learn to shoot in my city range, only members are allowed. This does not matter though as I have visited a few ranges abroad. Now the issue is they can't issue a license with strings attached!.

reg,
drifter.

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Re: Applying for an Arms License in India

Post by goodboy_mentor » Tue Nov 23, 2010 3:38 pm

Now the issue is they can't issue a license with strings attached!.
They will be able to get hold of the strings if you give them such opportunity by asking a license for "sport". If you are mentally prepared to approach High Court if needed, then apply for self defense, then they will not get such strings(unless you have criminal records) except sitting on the file continuously until awoken up by High Court. Once you get a license for "self defense" then you can certainly join any range as per your free will, if you want to practice target shooting for the purpose of your self defense.
"If my mother tongue is shaking the foundations of your State, it probably means that you built your State on my land" - Musa Anter, Kurdish writer, assassinated by the Turkish secret services in 1992

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Re: Applying for an Arms License in India

Post by arabindjha » Fri Jan 28, 2011 10:59 pm

dear abhijeet my name is arabind,from chennai. I want to apply for a revolver/pistol. i dont pay income tax. Is there any chance that i can get the license

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Re: Applying for an Arms License in India

Post by goodboy_mentor » Fri Jan 28, 2011 11:32 pm

Obtaining an arms license is a citizen's right. Income tax has no connection with arms license whatsoever. Arms Act 1959 Section 14(2) clearly says :

"The licensing authority shall not refuse to grant any licence to any person merely on the ground that such person does not own or possess sufficient property."

Property is of basically two types movable and immovable. Yearly monetary income is movable property. It is also not necessary that every citizen has to pay income tax.

The Right to Keep and Bear Arms is a fundamental right guaranteed by our Constitution under Articles 19 and 21. I have tried to explain this at http://indiansforguns.com/viewtopic.php ... 15#p117785
"If my mother tongue is shaking the foundations of your State, it probably means that you built your State on my land" - Musa Anter, Kurdish writer, assassinated by the Turkish secret services in 1992

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Re: Applying for an Arms License in India

Post by amitvar » Thu Feb 10, 2011 3:00 am

Hi,

I was wondering whether being a member of the Indian Territorial Army make the gun licensing process any easier in New Delhi?

Thanks in advance.

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Re: Applying for an Arms License in India

Post by goodboy_mentor » Thu Feb 10, 2011 4:16 pm

It really saddens me no end, when I find people looking for "easier" methods for something that is their right. Obtaining an arms license is a citizen's right. The Right to Keep and Bear Arms is a fundamental right guaranteed by our Constitution under Articles 19 and 21. The Territorial Army is not above the Constitution of India. If still things are not "easy", it means something is seriously wrong with our system or with our people who have been, without application of their mind, blindly "following" this system like slaves. Probably people have been more looking for "easier" methods for the past over 60 years of our "independence", resulting to such a pathetic situation wherein they have to still look for "easier" methods for something that is our Constitutionally guaranteed right!

The Arms Act 1959 was passed to co-ordinate the fundamental rights of citizens, i.e. the right of self defense guaranteed under Article 21 of Constitution and the Right to Keep and Bear Arms guaranteed under Articles 19 and 21 of Constitution. This can be ascertained by reading the related objectives of The Indian Arms (Amendment) Bill (No.49 of 1953), which became the Arms Act 1959:

"(ii) that weapons for self-defence are available for all citizens under license unless their antecedents or propensities do not entitle them for the privilege;

(c) to co-ordinate the rights of the citizen with the necessity of maintaining law and order and avoiding fifth-column activities in the country;"

“When men yield up the privilege of thinking, the last shadow of liberty quits the horizon.” - Thomas Paine
"If my mother tongue is shaking the foundations of your State, it probably means that you built your State on my land" - Musa Anter, Kurdish writer, assassinated by the Turkish secret services in 1992

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Re: Applying for an Arms License in India

Post by vivekpeter » Fri Mar 04, 2011 12:04 pm

Hi Guys,

I am member of the Madurai Rifle Club. I had applied for a rifle licence for a 0.22 calibre RF rifle. The Licence issuing authority (DRO in my case) required the following 3 clearances - Clearance from Revenue Dept, Clearance from Forest Dept and Clearance from Police.

I got the 1st two clearances (Revenue and Forest), but regarding the clearance from the Police, they called me to their station, and they kept on prolonging things (eventhough I had provided them a copy of my Passport, Ration Card and my rifle club membership card). The reason why they kept prolonging things was unclear to me. And one day, I spoke to the writer in the police station. He said the Inspector od that station was asking for a Bribe of 10000 rupees. I was totally dismayed.

My father is a Commandant IN CISF and he is very straightforward. I told the writer this, and he replied back that 'No one is straight forward' and that the Inspector told him that.

The result of all this - the Inspector had endorsed the following in his report that -
i. I did not give any proof of my membership (though I gave one)
ii. I did not posses wealth and hence no need for a gun for self protection(I had stated that I needed a rifle for sporting and not self protection)

My papers are still pending with the DRO.

Guys, could you give me any directions on how to proceed.

Regards,
Vivek
Gun control??!!

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Re: Applying for an Arms License in India

Post by goodboy_mentor » Fri Mar 04, 2011 1:44 pm

In my opinion there is hardly any other way except fighting for our rights. Right to Keep and Bear Arms is our fundamental right guaranteed by our Constitution under Articles 19 and 21 and we will have to fight for it. Nobody is going to offer our rights to us on a plate.

On 07/03/2011 NAGRI is going to make a presentation to the Parliamentary Standing Committee on Home Affairs(http://indiansforguns.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=13069). Please email this information in detail to NAGRI so that they can highlight the practical problems faced by people. If a son of CISF Commandment is facing so many problems, it can be well imagined what is the plight of "ordinary" citizens. The emails for NAGRI are:
president(at)gunowners(dot)in
vp(at)gunowners(dot)in
secgen(at)gunowners(dot)in
i. I did not give any proof of my membership (though I gave one)
If you have acknowledgment of receipt about submission of copy of membership, inform him the same and give him another copy of membership and get its photocopy stamped and signed by him. Or send the same documents by speed post/registered post.

Else give another copy and get its photocopy stamped and signed by him. Or send the same documents by speed post/registered post.
ii. I did not posses wealth and hence no need for a gun for self protection(I had stated that I needed a rifle for sporting and not self protection)
Arms license is issued for Self Defence(it is a Fundamental Right guaranteed to all persons by our Constitution under Article 21). Even a beggar without any property has this Fundamental Right guaranteed to him by our Constitution under Article 21. Since Self Defense and RKBA are Fundamental Rights under our Constitution, in order to not offend the Constitution, Arms Act 1959 Section 14(2) is very clear that arms license cannot be denied merely due to lack of property/wealth/cash etc.
14. Arms Act 1959
(2) The licensing authority shall not refuse to grant any licence to any person merely on the ground that such person does not own or possess sufficient property.
Reference: http://www.abhijeetsingh.com/arms/india ... r_3_4.html

Personally I see such careless refusals as dereliction of duty and malafide intentions on part of the police officer. He has even lost the protection afforded to him by Section 40 of Arms Act 1959 to act under good faith, since he is clearly violating Section 14(2) of Arms Act 1959.
"If my mother tongue is shaking the foundations of your State, it probably means that you built your State on my land" - Musa Anter, Kurdish writer, assassinated by the Turkish secret services in 1992

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Re: Applying for an Arms License in India

Post by veeveeaar » Fri Mar 04, 2011 5:32 pm

Vivek Peter ,First you should have GUTs and be'' FIGHTER''.This Inspector whom you are talking about is just a TOOL of the licencing authority.All he has to do is to check your criminal antecedents and report to his superiors. Even the S.P. has no say in this. He has to just communicate the same to the L.A. Just let it reach a stage after the elections and PM me . I will give you all the backup to get a licence IN A STRAIGHT FORWARD WAY

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Re: Applying for an Arms License in India

Post by vivekpeter » Fri Mar 04, 2011 6:49 pm

veeveeaar wrote:Vivek Peter ,First you should have GUTs and be'' FIGHTER''.This Inspector whom you are talking about is just a TOOL of the licencing authority.All he has to do is to check your criminal antecedents and report to his superiors. Even the S.P. has no say in this. He has to just communicate the same to the L.A. Just let it reach a stage after the elections and PM me . I will give you all the backup to get a licence IN A STRAIGHT FORWARD WAY
Hello Sir,
Thanks for the encouraging reply!
I am tightly following up with things. I will keep you updated of the progress. I am waiting for my papers to be rejected. Then I am going to appeal to the appellate authority.

@goodguy_mentor
Thanks for the reply sir. I will definitely pursue and get my licence. I will take the steps you ave mentioned and post it to people at NAGRI.

BTW, Mr. VeeVeeAar, are you from Madurai? I am from Madurai too! Nice knowing a fellow IFG member from hometown!

Thanks for your replies guys! Its really encouraging me to follow things up!!

Regards,
Vivek
Gun control??!!

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Re: Applying for an Arms License in India

Post by target shooter » Sat Mar 05, 2011 1:44 pm

All he has to do is to check your criminal antecedents and report to his superiors. Even the S.P. has no say in this. He has to just communicate the same to the L.A.


:agree: And secondly ask your father to act. he should be in picture. That inspector needs to be told whats not correct. This yr father can do, as he is comdt (sg) ie commandant who senior to ssp.

regard,
ts

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Re: Applying for an Arms License in India

Post by nagarifle » Sat Mar 05, 2011 2:22 pm

target shooter wrote:All he has to do is to check your criminal antecedents and report to his superiors. Even the S.P. has no say in this. He has to just communicate the same to the L.A.


:agree: And secondly ask your father to act. he should be in picture. That inspector needs to be told whats not correct. This yr father can do, as he is comdt (sg) ie commandant who senior to ssp.

regard,
ts
:agree: after all what are fathers for? but to put a good word about their son. and what the point of having a father in uniform is you can not show him off with pride :lol: and few extra excorts fully uniformed and armed even better :lol:
Nagarifle

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