Foreign Film Armourers with India-sourced Flintlock Muskets-

[DocAV]

WE are an Australian Film Armourer company, with a Job in India in the coming months, with a need to use Flintlock Muskets and Pistols ( Mahratta Wars period, late 1700s), which we intend to acquire from an Indian manufacturer, use in the Film, and then Export to Australia. The Export Licencing will be handled by our Suppliers, but what about the Acquisition, transport to Mumbai Film Studio, use during Filming, and return to the manufacturer for Export to us???

Would there have to be a representative of the Manufacturer on set at the studios, or do the Studios have a "Licence" for such use, or must our Armourer ( a Fully Licensed Queensland (Australia) FIlm Armourer for all categories of Firearms and ordnance)
also get some sort of Indian Licence?

I have read the Arms Act 1959, and the Arms Rules 1962, and there is NO indication of Licences for Film use, or for Foreigners using Indian Guns in India for Film use, and besides that, there are several Typos, and the general layout of the Act and Rules which make the Law a (bit) ambiguous and confused, to say the least.

If anybody with the requisite knowledge who is a member of this Board can help us, with advice and correct information, we would be grateful.

We already have done one film in India ( Kashmir-Ladakh area, with the Indian Army-- "Lashkah" a couple of years ago, but all the guns were supplied by the army...we only supplied technical assistance and Blank Ammunition.) and we are looking forward to doing more joint productions ( India -Australia) in the future.

Replies can be made via this board,
or direct to
[email protected]

Thanks and Regards,
DocAV
Brisbane Australia.

[jonahpach]

Hello DocAV,
I hope some of the members will be able to help you with your query, But I have a feeling that foreign companies such as yours will be able to jolt our bureaucrats from their stupor. As it is, common citizens like us have to run from pillar to post even to get a rejection of our application for an arms licence.

I am wondering about your intentions to import indian made flintlocks, muskets and pistols made by indian manufacturers. As the law stands, we mortal beings are made to believe that we are not allowed to export small arms. IIRC, Even present licenced owners of rare and collectable firearms with obsolete calibres have been unable to export them in this present day.

Goodluck and keep us posted of your trials and tribulations.

Jonah

[goodboy_mentor]

in the coming months, with a need to use Flintlock Muskets and Pistols ( Mahratta Wars period, late 1700s), which we intend to acquire from an Indian manufacturer, use in the Film,

Please note: Under Arms Act 1959 Section 3(2), an individual is allowed maximum of 3 firearms only. Establishments/Firms are excluded from the provisions of Section 3(2) and can keep more than three firearms. So if you want more than 3 firearms the license has to be in name of some Establishment/Firm. It would be much simpler and easier for you if you can contact some Indian Establishment/Firm like film studios or producers/directors who are familiar with these kind of filming. There are plenty of films made in India on historical characters like "The Sword of Tipu Sultan" and "The Great Maratha" by Sanjay Khan in which antique firearms were used.

If you desire, you may also try contacting either one or both of the following:

1) Any antique gun replica manufacturers in India like http://www.curioushouse.com/about_us.htm These antique gun replica manufacturers are the people who usually supply such antique gun replicas to film making units. Probably they would be more familiar with the practical aspects related to your questions.

2) The film studious where you will be shooting the film. They might be already having licenses for such antique firearms.

and then Export to Australia.

Export of firearms by private companies or individuals is practically not allowed. Only government owned Indian Ordinance Factory exports firearms. Private antique gun replica manufacturers do export their products, but they ensure that their product satisfies Section 45(c) of Arms Act 1959 so that it is not legally a "firearm" but legally a curio, non firing imitation of antique firearm etc. Like they do not drill the barrel completely etc. Once the replica reaches the importer, he modifies the antique replicas to make them proper firearms.

You cannot hand over firearms to anybody without paper work. If you have acquired firearms on your license and want to hand them over to manufacturer or anybody for that matter, either you can get him endorsed on your license as a "retainer" from the licensing authority, or the person should be licensed arms dealer authorized to keep firearms, or you give 45 day notice period to the licensing authority for sale to the manufacturer(or any firearm license holder to whom you desire to sell). Once you get "permission" to sell after 45 days, only then you will be able to sell to the specific manufacturer or to the specific arms license holder you had requested in the 45 day notice period form. Then the manufacturer(or whoever is legally taking custody of your firearms) may get the firearms modified by those who have license to repair/modify firearms so that they become non firing imitation firearms(so that they can be exported).

Other option would be to keep the firearms on your license and get them modified into non firing replicas from licensed arms dealer who is authorized to carry firearms repair/modification etc.

Other option would be to use totally different set of firearms for filming and export.

but what about the Acquisition,

Anybody who has a firearm license can acquire the type and quantity of firearms and ammunition as mentioned on the license.

transport to Mumbai Film Studio

Firearm can be only carried within the area validity of license. If you want to transport firearm from one "area validity" to another, you need to get a transit license and register your firearm with the licensing authority at destination. Usually the area validity is limited to single district, sometimes to entire state, rarely all India.

use during Filming

If you have mentioned the purpose as "filming" in your license application, it should not be a problem.

Would there have to be a representative of the Manufacturer on set at the studios, or do the Studios have a "Licence" for such use, or must our Armourer ( a Fully Licensed Queensland (Australia) FIlm Armourer for all categories of Firearms and ordnance) also get some sort of Indian Licence?

Every firearm legally manufactured has to go through a proof test. There is no legal requirement for the manufacturer to be present on set at Studio, nor there is any legal requirement to bring Armourer from Australia, since whoever has been issued the firearm license(or the retainer on license)is fully responsible for proper safe keeping and safe handling/use of the firearms/ammunition thus licensed.

I have read the Arms Act 1959, and the Arms Rules 1962, and there is NO indication of Licences for Film use

Arms licenses are usually issued for self defense, sport, crop protection, display. Probably your case will fall under sport or whatever the Licensing Authority decides to write.

or for Foreigners using Indian Guns in India for Film use

Arms licenses are not issued on basis of citizenship, instead they are issued on basis of residence of individual. Arms license was issued to Kenyan citizen(reference http://indiansforguns.com/viewtopic.php ... 95#p118448) But practically speaking, it is extremely difficult even for law abiding citizens to get a firearms license in India, it will be even more difficult for a foreigner to get one.

the general layout of the Act and Rules which make the Law a (bit) ambiguous and confused, to say the least.

Very true, probably made ambiguous and confusing to confuse the people by some clever bureaucrats of this country so that people are not able to figure out that RKBA is a fundamental right guaranteed by Articles 19 and 21 of Constitution of India(http://indiansforguns.com/viewtopic.php ... 15#p117785)

[DocAV]

Dear Goodboy-Mentor,
As I understand your reply, If we buy Flintlocks from a Chandrigah manufacturer, they will need a Licensed (Indian)person to accept them in the Mumbai Film studio...we need them to be able to discharge Blank loads, as normal for Film production.
Our Armourer is in charge of all the Special effect of this Film production, and has already been contracted to "do" the Indian Section, probably with a local "Mumbai Studio" assistant with the appropriate Licensces to acquire Black powder and other Pyrotechnics for the Special Effects (Cannon, etc).

Then once the film is over, in order to export them, we will have to get the Firing Holes in the breech "Plugged" so they are no longer a "Firearm"...correct? The Manufacturer will export them as "Inert Fireamrs" as required by Indian Rules, and we will "re- activbate them once in Australia, again for purely Film use....

THis is very strange, as we have Chandrigah-made Muskets etc, both Flint and Percussion, in Australia, which carry Indian Proof marks for Working Firearms...and have been imported from India as Working Firearms... seemingly in contradiction with what you have stated about the Export Rules. THis has been going on since the 1970s, since I bought a new imported M1851 Enfield Artillery Musketoon copy, made in Chandrigah, and it was fully functional, and carried the normal Indian Proof House Markings. So export of Working "Replicas of Antiques" (ie, Flint and Percussion) has been going on for several decades... ( Over Half a Century, in fact....)

I will cast my "Lawyer's Eyes" over the Rules and Act again ( I have them downloaded). It is only 7 years since I graduated JD (Juris Doctor), in my senior years, so the basic teaching of Legal Interpretation is still fresh...although the Legacy of British Law left to the Indian Subcontinent has been sorely tested since 1949.
( The British also made a fine mess of Law in India before then as well, especially regarding Firearms...)


Regards, and Thanks...we will consult with our principals in the Production Company and see what can be "Arranged" with some Mumbai represenatitves.

Regards,
Doc AV
AV Ballistics Film Ordnance Services
Brisbane Australia

[goodboy_mentor]

If we buy Flintlocks from a Chandrigah manufacturer, they will need a Licensed (Indian)person to accept them in the Mumbai Film studio

If the flintlocks being sold fall in the definition of firearms as defined in Section 2 of Arms Act 1959, they do need a license to acquire them. License can be in name of individual if the quantity does not exceed 3 firearms. If the quantity is more than 3 firearms, the license will have to be acquired in the name of some establishment/firm. It is not necessary that licensee has to be an Indian citizen, anybody who has been issued license can legally accept them. It should be noted that every aspect of firearms from manufacture, transportation, sale, acquisition, possession, repair, export, import etc. is regulated under licenses. It may look fine on paper while reading Arms Act 1959 and Arms Rules 1962 but practically even Indian citizens find it extremely difficult and time consuming to obtain these licenses. Since Arms Act 1959 and Arms Rules 1962 are so confusing and ambiguous, most of the bureaucrats themselves are not fully aware of these laws.

Then once the film is over, in order to export them, we will have to get the Firing Holes in the breech "Plugged" so they are no longer a "Firearm"...correct? The Manufacturer will export them as "Inert Fireamrs" as required by Indian Rules, and we will "re- activbate them once in Australia, again for purely Film use....

Unless the manufacturer holds a license for export of firearms issued under Arms Rules 1962, he will not be able to export "firearms". If manufacturer does not hold a license for export of firearms issued under Arms Rules 1962, he is practically left with no other option except satisfying the Section 45(c) of Arms Act 1959.

seemingly in contradiction with what you have stated about the Export Rules.

When I said that export of firearms by private companies or individuals is practically not allowed(I meant rarely private individuals and firms are issued licenses).

THis has been going on since the 1970s, since I bought a new imported M1851 Enfield Artillery Musketoon copy, made in Chandrigah, and it was fully functional, and carried the normal Indian Proof House Markings. So export of Working "Replicas of Antiques" (ie, Flint and Percussion) has been going on for several decades... ( Over Half a Century, in fact....)

A lot of changes have been made to firearms laws and the implementation here since 1970s. Please contact those manufacturers and see if they are still retaining the licenses for export of "firearms".

The British also made a fine mess of Law in India before then as well, especially regarding Firearms...

Just like any colonial power would do in order to disarm the people. Same theme has been carried forward into the Arms Act 1959 and Arms Rules 1962.