Medical certificate and intelligence check during renewal

[ebenezer]

Dear all,

The Chennai city police has made medical certificates mandatory during renewal time. This is to certify that the applicant is of sound mind and physically fit. I'm told that this requirement has been in force since last year. While this seems to be the individual decision of the police, no doctor is willing to give medical certificates when they are told it is for gun licence renewal.
I also got an additional information that intelligence checks are going to be done on each renewal application from this year. This, i was told, is part of the MHA's directions. But, I couldn't find any mention of this in the MHA order. As far as I know, intelligence checks are done only at the time of applying for an arms licence. It also seems that even at the time of selling the firearm, intelligence checks are done. Now if each application is to be undertaken for intelligence check, when will they complete the renewal process and return the licences?
Are these procedures being followed in other districts/states also? Any information on this would be appreciated.

Regards,
Ebenezer

[Amit357]

Intell checks ---------------------------------,IB kind if Intell or IQ Kind of Intell,up north most of the guys would clear the IB check but regarding the IQ test i have some reservations,Ebenezer,these directions from time to time are the diktats of some overzealous DCP Licencing,it happens a new DCP/DM has a different idea about Arms Licencing then his predeccer,there are some who dont give a damm and issue/renew Arms Licence,there are some who are not gonna do the needful..Part of the discreationary powers of the DM/DCP

[ebenezer]

Oh No! I'm sorry, I should've put it correctly Amit. It's not the IQ kind of test. It's the background check that I meant, and it is done by the intelligence authorities of the city police.

Regards,
Ebenezer

[Amit357]

Ebenezer,police verification at time of Grant/Renewal of Arms Licence is a background check.its followed everywhere,gone are the days when Arms Licences were issued/renwed by verbal orders of SDMs/DMs.IB checks are done on people who are being granted P.Bore Licences,you know the practice followed sicnce the days of the RAJ.Regards to the physical test,it has become mandatory for a Driving Licence,so for the Arms Licence it shouldnt be a big deal.Rgds

[ebenezer]

Thanks Amit for clarifying that. I just wanted to know if this is the procedure everywhere or Chennai is a bit overzealous.

Regards,
Ebenezer

[hamiclar01]

Background checks are conducted in Delhi, as far as I am aware. The same sort as for passport issuing. Haven't heard of medical checks.

In an integrated health network in UK, you have to sign a form authorising the police to question your GP about physical and mental health problems. In the wake of the Cumbria shootings, rules are now being drafted making it necessary for GPs to communicate any change in mental health status to the Police.

Who does Chennai police want to issue this medical? Any medical practitioner? Psychiatrist? Can you specify the expected wordings on the letter?

[snIPer]

Medical check / certificate from a government doctor is a must if you need a license from Bangalore.
/S/

[ebenezer]

Can you specify the expected wordings on the letter?

To whomsoever it may concern,

This is to certify that xxxxxxxxx, s/o, xxxxx, residing at xxxxxx, is physically and mentally fit.
His/her eyesight is good.

Regards,
Ebenezer

Sniper,

This was unheard of in the history of Chennai arms licensing, especially in renewal, though it is better to get one.

Ebenezer

[goodboy_mentor]

Regards to the physical test,it has become mandatory for a Driving Licence,so for the Arms Licence it shouldnt be a big deal.

I disagree, it is indeed a big deal not because of the test, but because it is a burden being put on you, to provide the proof for refusing the license. Hence this "demand" is illegal. Arms Act 1959 is a regulatory law to regulate the fundamental right guaranteed by our Constitution under Article 21(regulate does not mean to infringe or cause hardships for enjoyment of the right, its purpose is only to target the mischief). The burden to look for "reasons" to deny the grant or renewal of arms license lies with the state. Licensing Authority is already well empowered to decide whether a person is of "unsound" mind or "any" reason not fit to be issued license. If Licensing Authority thinks that it is incompetent to implement the relevant provisions of Arms Act 1959, it can bring its own government doctor for that purpose(but cannot compel applicants to visit some doctor) under Section 14(I have mentioned the relevant clauses below) The applicant is under no burden to provide "reasons" for refusal of license, which they are asking from applicant under Section 14 of Arms Act 1959. To understand in detail please read http://indiansforguns.com/viewtopic.php ... 15#p117785

They are doing all this as per Arms Act 1959 14. Refusal of licences:
(i) where such licence is required by a person whom the licensing authority has reason to believe---
(2) to be of unsound mind, or (3) to be for any reason unfit for a licence under this Act; or
(3) Where the licensing authority refuses to grant a licence to any person it shall record in writing the reasons for such refusal and furnish to that person on demand a brief statement of the same unless in any case the licensing authority is of the opinion that it will not be in the public interest to furnish such statement.

If we try to understand from above sections, Sections 14(i)(2) &(3) they have been delegated powers to determine if a person is of "unsound" mind or for "any" reason unfit for license by using their discretionary powers granted to them and also protection under Section 40. Section 14(3)means since it is the question of applicant's fundamental right, the burden to provide "reason" to refuse license lies on the State, so that in case the fundamental right to RKBA guaranteed by our Constitution of the applicant is infringed, the applicant can approach High Court with evidence to get his right enforced which has been guaranteed by our Constitution.

[dr.jayakumar]

interesting discussion!you can't beat these officials!if mental and iq check is over they will bring out something new.but one thing they forget,we won't give up,do we?

[veeveeaar]

Hi every one, this is what i have been crying about in various threads . We have to put all such bitter experiences to NAGRI or NAGRI should call for such experiences and solutions from all members . At every stage, these ** literate guys popup so many surprises on the innocent arms licensee. Every one connot have the time, money and perseverance to take on such issues ,they become numb and muted. So please members please ask yourselves that wether these'' QIXOTES ''can be allowed to take us for a ride ? I REQUEST NAGRI TO BE KNOWN TO EVERYBODY AND CALL FOR SUCH BAD AND ILEGAL EXPERIENCES so that the so called new arms2010 act will become a practical and transparent one.

[goodboy_mentor]

@dr.jayakumar and veeveeaar
Gentlemen, I fully agree with you and I am also reading your opinions in other threads and they make a lot of sense. These people are exploiting the ignorance of people and some provisions in the law which are not very clear. I have tried to explain the points in support of RKBA in details at http://indiansforguns.com/viewtopic.php ... 15#p117785 probably which you have already read. Shortly I will be sending a PM to both of you explaining in short some finer points behind this situation that is going on, and what can be legally done. Also please read the following to understand how and why they are doing all this: http://indiansforguns.com/viewtopic.php ... 53#p118753

[veeveeaar]

thank you

[Amit357]

gb_m,please dont take this in the wrong way,buy you are refrering to the sections of the Arms Act in a perfect world,the whims and fancies of the DM/DCP- SP to the SHO and further the beat staff,the revenue staff,{in HRY and PB a report is sought from them to} are not mentioned in the Act.In my perfect world there would be a police clearence for an Arms Licence,i wouldnt push it that far that no clearnce is to be sought but after that no additions, PPs,area of carrying,renewals,etc.Please study the format of the applications,it stinks of neopotism and something all about the whims and fancy of the Licencing Authority.

[goodboy_mentor]

Please study the format of the applications,it stinks of neopotism and something all about the whims and fancy of the Licencing Authority.

If I understand you correct, you mean to say that it is not possible for one individual to fight everything and everywhere. I agree 100% in that. How did we reach this stage? Who supported them? Is it not a good saying that "Nip the evil in bud"? If people do not understand and allow the things go from good to bad, then bad to worse, then were is the end? I find the opinion expressed by veeveeaar sensible and workable.