Holding 2 similar licenses from two different states?

[captrakshitsharma]

Hi All,
Request your interpretation of fire arms law on the following matter.
A thought came across to me and some of my friends. Can a person hold 2 different firearm licenses for a similar class of firearm say a pistol / revolver in two different states?
To be specific say u hold a license for a pistol in one state and for another pistol in another state? Is it any different for a long gun??? (Sanjay and Abhijeet must have guessed what i am trying to get at )
Any restrictions on holding a NP Bore Pistol/Revolver in say for example in Uttarakhand and and Applying for a License for a NP Bore pistol and a Breach Loading Rifle/ Shotgun in Haryana?? Technically it is three licenses which is permitted, But does the two different states licenses have any restrictions or prohibitions??

Regards to all
Rakshit.

[mundaire]

Irrespective of the "type" it would be quite illegal to hold arms licenses from 2 different states or even 2 different jurisdictions within the same state. The law is clear on this, one needs to apply for a license from the place (read city/ district/ state) where one is "normally resident". If someone holds licenses in multiple jurisdictions, he/ she needs to have them consolidated in one jurisdiction ASAP, else if busted the person could loose all licenses and end up spending some time at the taxpayers expense...

HTH

Cheers!
Abhijeet

[captrakshitsharma]

hmmmm

-- Sat Nov 20, 2010 12:05 am --

so even if u have houses in 2 different states and reside with address proofs even then.. ?? so all your licenses do have to be from the same jurisdiction???

[goodboy_mentor]

19. Protection of certain rights regarding freedom of speech, etc.—(1) All citizens shall have the right—
(d) to move freely throughout the territory of India;
(e) to reside and settle in any part of the territory of India; 1[and]

I have a different view, Constitution of my country guarantees me as quoted above. Arms Act 1959 cannot violate my above rights.

I can constantly be on move throughout India as per Article 19(1)(d).

I can reside in any part of the territory of India as per Article 19(1)(e).

If someone has houses both in Uttarakhand and Haryana. As per Article 19(1)(d) & (e) he can regularly move freely between both his houses and also reside in both of them regularly as per his Constitutionally guaranteed fundamental rights . He is a "normal" resident in both his houses, Constitution is saying that to him, this has been guaranteed to him by Article 19(1)(d) & (e). At the most the State can ask him his address proof, which he can furnish like his electricity bills in both locations. State cannot say that it is not his residence or it is not his "normal" residence. So long he keeps his arms within the area validity of the license, where is the problem? I have also tried to interpret certain provisions of Constitution and Arms Act 1959 in relation to RKBA at http://indiansforguns.com/viewtopic.php ... 85#p117785 Please read and see if I am going wrong anywhere.

[prashantsingh]

Absolutely Rakshit.
Just like you are supposed to have one voters card and one passport .
When you fill the application form to apply for a fresh Arms licence ....you also have to give details of the weapons you already have and the licences.



I differ from your views "goodboy mentor".
I see no harm in applying for a licence from one place. It's just more practical.
The only issue is the "All India" endorsement.
Which was no big issue for the previous generation.

[goodboy_mentor]

Arms license is not like a voter card or a passport. If that is the case then how can one person have arms licenses on 3 booklets for 3 firearms? Yes you have to give answer questions correctly in application form, but based on those answers provided by you, licensing authority cannot deny issuing arms license because as per Constitution you a "normal" resident in both places.

[mundaire]

IIRC one of the cases against Sanjay Dutt was to do with his holding licenses across different states... I think google should turn up the relevant details... Also as Prashant has rightly pointed out, at the time of application one needs to furnish details of arms licenses currently held as well as address details of any place you have resided at within the past 5 years.

[prashantsingh]

Let us assume Rakshit has 3 licences.
1 Pistol licence from Dehradun
1 Rifle from Delhi
and 1 Gun (12 bore) from Gurgaon .....issued around the same time.

So three years later ....Our man has to run around three different states for the renewal.

Make life simple guys and follow the Law. Just be more practicle.

The Bigger issue today for everyone .....Is the All India Endorsement

[goodboy_mentor]

Certainly I agree, the correct details have to be mentioned in arms license application, one should not be withholding the facts, probably in Sanjay Dutt case he did not mention the facts while applying for arms license and probably also obtained more than three arms licenses. But if I mention the facts about my existing firearm licenses and that I am residing at both places for the past 5 years, which I can do very much as per the Articles 19(1)(d) and (g), the licensing authority cannot deny the license, neither in Haryana or in Uttarakhand.

Yes licenses from one place are more practical and easy to manage while renewal, but what to do if AIV endorsement is next to impossible?

Yes I fully agree that AIV endorsement is a big issue. That is why people are compelled to apply at different places because they do not get AIV endorsement.

[captrakshitsharma]

First of all Thanks to Doc (looking forward to some scotch with u in ol town) Abhijeet and Good boy for the insights. As the doc diagnosed right the ailment i am trying to get treated is the all india issue which has turned from incovenience to a pain for me personally.
All i was trying to get around the problem of not being able to travel with a weapon and keep weapons both in Gurgaon and Dehradun was get another license in Gurgaon and get my father's pistol transferred to a new pistol license in Gurgaon and he can get a new handgun as he holds an NRI status and can bring in a weapon . Further get the 3 state validity on both licenses and that will solve my weapon carry travel needs for most places i live and travel to and through...

So i guess it is illegal to hold a license from 2 states .... and the situation remains a situation..

[goodboy_mentor]

So i guess it is illegal to hold a license from 2 states .... and the situation remains a situation..

I do not mean to offend or override anyone's views. Prashant has correctly said that having all licenses at one location is easier to manage but AIV is the real problem.

But having licenses at 2 or 3 locations is also not illegal provided you do not obtain them by suppressing any facts as asked in the application form because you are following the due procedure of law. The illegality commences only when you suppress the facts asked in your application form to obtain arms license. If you have residences at 2 or 3 locations and residence proof for these locations, the law cannot say that you do not reside at a particular residence or cannot reside at more than one residence because of the fact that Articles 19(1)(d) &(e) of Constitution enable you to do so. Also the law cannot say that if you have residence at 2 or 3 locations you should always carry all your arms with you, so that all your arms always stay at one residence with you, in that case it would mean that the law is first implicitly accepting that you have all India licenses with you(even if you have all India license, law cannot compel you to keep firearms at only one of your residences). You have safe place to store arms in your house under lock and key, the house is well secured. You may also have other family members in your house to ensure the safe custody of your firearm as retainers in your house. Even if you approach High Court, High Court will support you, provided you have not suppressed any facts while applying for arms license. Once you get arms licenses you can apply for getting AIV endorsement done for 1 or more arms at any desired residences by you. Later on if you desire you can also change your residence anytime(change of residence does not mean change of ownership of residence) to only one location and get all the arms under jurisdiction of one licensing authority by following the due procedure of law. Law cannot say that why you are reducing place of your residences from 3 to 2 or 2 to 1. You can get these views confirmed by a good lawyer also.

[captrakshitsharma]

So as per the new proposed ruling is it that three more states can be added on to your license other than the home state or is it two more states.

[goodboy_mentor]

Are you trying to mean that MHA policy circulated to Home Secretaries of all States and Union Territories? If yes, then in my opinion it is illegal and has no legal value. Since you reside both in Haryana and Uttaranchal, you can apply at any one of the locations, from the place where you find comfortable to chase your arms license application, mentioning all the facts as asked like if you already have arms license, your places of residences etc. and after getting the license, chase to get AIV endorsement or at least endorsement covers all the states between your 2 residences because you have residence at both places and want to take firearm with you while traveling freely between both your residences. At both stages you may have to approach High Court, not because it is required by law, but because of the bureaucratic lethargy, unreasonable delays etc. created by them.