information for additional weapon

[hhchoudhary]

Hi
I am having a arms license and I am having a .22 Bruno rifle in sporting g and now I want a additional weapon pistol in sporting and self protection could anyone show me the way to get this done in the easy way.

[goodboy_mentor]

Apply for endorsement of additional weapon/s on firearm license and submit requisite fees at licensing authourity. There have been number of rulings by courts to not to refuse additional firearms just because someone has already got a firearm. Please refer: http://indiansforguns.com/viewtopic.php ... 869#p83382
Moreover self defense is a fundamental right guaranteed under Article 21 of Constitution, and applying for Arms license for self defense is a legal right. You may read a recent important judgment by Hon'ble High Court, AP at http://www.indiansforguns.com/viewtopic ... 7&start=15

[ruger_rugged]

This is a very interesting discussion. I possess an arms licence for over 5 years now valid throughout India. I have a shortgun endorsed on it. About 8 months ago I applied for a additional pistol licence which after 4 months of processing was refused by Police Commissioner. The refusal letter was a ready made letter which had the reason printed on it ready to go type after filling my name and file number and the reason of refusal was "The reason cited for obtaining licence was not valid".The letter further said that if the decision was unacceptable to me then I have the option to appeal before State Govt within 30 days. I have put an appeal before Home Dept Maharashtra State. Now this becomes quite funny coz I have short gun for self protection and when I demand pistol for the same self protection, stating that I travel a lot and It is not convenient to travel with shotgun, then my licence is refused citing a silly reason. What is not valid? I need weapon for self defense therefore have been granted licence for shotgun and if there was no need then why a licence was granted to me?

The procedure for obtaining additional licence in Maharsahtra is quite different. They treat every weapon as a separate subject. The procedure for every weapon is same as applying for fresh licence and the inquiry process is cumbersome.
Experts out there, I need your help. Can you suggest what to do next? Can you guys suggest any lawyers in Mumbai/Thane region that might be help in this matter? Any other suggestion are welcomed.

Cheers

[Anand]

ruger_rugged,
The law states that a verification must be done on an applicant before issuing a license, the number of firearms being no more than 3 per person (whether all are entered under one license number in one booklet or under 3 separate licenses in 3 separate booklets). If you applied for a fresh license without ever mentioning that you are already a licensee, the clerk may have routinely sent that pre-typed rejection letter. However, if you asked for an inclusion of an additional firearm in your existing license, it may have been easier.

Now, any sane normal person knows that, when issued, a license basically means that the said licensee is of the correct legal age,of sane mind, has no history of criminal behaviour and has no propensities for such. Once this sacred document has been issued it means that the system has "whetted" you and trusts you to be able to hold a firearm(s) for whatever reason cited in the application.

But, after 1983 when all common sense went God only knows where with regard to licensing, every discretionary power that the licensing authority had, has been twisted so as to make it extraordinarily difficult for the average person, by the introduction of either new rules or policy, to acquire a license, in direct contravention to the spirit of the Arms Act. Unfortunately the vastness of the discretionary powers bestowed on the licensing authorities make it impossible for any equality, consistency or transparency in the Arms Law.

Your recourse would be to seek an interview with the LA and explain the matter, failing which you may go to Court, which (although it may take a while) will direct the LA to explain the reason for denial, and
force it to reexamine your case and issue a license especially as you are already a license holder.

If you have to go to Court, your lawyer will probably tell you, the main focus of the issue is that you are already a licensee,and the Law allows you to hold 3 firearms and that you have been denied for no good reason.
Regards,
Anand

[ruger_rugged]

Thanks Anand.
I was called in for an interview with the LA (Commissioner of Police) and after a brief discussion, he offered me to give a pistol licence with a condition that I surrender my shotgun. That means me he was keeping me to just 1 weapon. I argued that I have a need for both and that the shotgun is equally important. He said that he doesn't issue additional weapons and therefore refused my application. My application was for an additional weapon on the same licence, but in Maharashtra they threat every weapon as a separate licence. There is no point in going to LA. The best shot will be to get it cleared through appeal. I talked to folks in POL 9 department of Mantralaya which deals with such cases and I was told that appeal petitions have been pending since year 2005. These people have not been given hearing dates and thats why they are pending.
To get a petition clleared, one has to obtain hearing date. Any suggestions on getting hearing dates in this case??
Any lawyers who can help or suggest on this?

Cheers

[goodboy_mentor]

The situation as it stands today is that as per Article 21 of Constitution Self Defense is a Fundamental Right and hence Right to Keep and Bear Arms is embedded in it. Else the fundamental Right to Self Defense is absolutely meaningless. Police, paramilitary etc. are given firearms not to kill, murder etc. but only for their self defense to the fullest measure as per protection by Article 21 of Constitution just like for the rest of the citizens. Hence citizens should be eligible to keep similar arms for same right.
But the irony is that the executive has been delegated practically unlimited powers by Parliament to do as they please as per various sections of Arms Act 1959. To top it all Section 40 gives them full protection to do "anything" under Arms Act under "good faith". Since they have been given practically unlimited powers and protection, if they want they screw up the application even without thinking. Try convincing them otherwise the the only recourse left will be the courts, who will (eventually) have to rule in your favour but it will cost money, which is why so few citizens bother to appeal license rejections. The officials know this and thus continue to harass ordinary citizens. The usual purpose is to extort bribes. The more "strict" they can get with help of discretionary powers given to them by Arms Act, more bribes they can extract. After 26/11 a senior officer of Mumbai Police was boasting to media about how "strict" they have become to issue licenses after the terrorist attacks(As if terrorists had obtained firearms on licenses). The Bombay High Court had asked for guidelines for refusal of arms license cases : http://www.dnaindia.com/mumbai/report_h ... ce_1230331
I have tried to find out some problem sections in Arms Act http://indiansforguns.com/viewtopic.php ... 15#p108363
IMHO the practical way out for you now is to file a writ in High Court with help from a good lawyer.

[ruger_rugged]

Gurus,
If a person has arms licence for a weapon with All India Validity and then if he goes for second weapon, Will the second weapon have All India Validity Automatically or will it be limited to the state?

[darashp]

dear mr,ruger
if u endorse ur weapon on the same licence,then it will be automatically all india valid and if they gave u a new book for the addition then it will be limited to state.

[psm]

Do somewhere authorities are issuing separate booklet for different weapons????????

PSM

[goodboy_mentor]

Yes in many states they issue separate booklets, instead of endorsing additional firearms on same license.

[darashp]

if u want to endorse ur firearm on the same licence u just go to the la babu,s they will take some suvidha fees and will do ur work properly,if ur states rules allow......

[darashp]

anybody from ludhiana has got addition of weapons n.p bore in his licence in these two months? sep and oct2010 pls reply...

[goodboy_mentor]

Are you still facing the problem that they are not receiving applications for new arms licenses/application for additional weapons? If yes then what are the options you have tried till now?