Indians For Guns

HI! Since all the time ppl. who wish to take up the sport keep asking about the type of shooting hardware and the ammo used in the competitions I am starting this thread with some highly acclaimed manufacturers info. more will be added later and other ppl. can also add their links so that gradually a newbie can browse through here and know how to start off:

1. The king of small bore .22 rifle used in 50 M comps. : 1 )Anshutz (Germany) they have overwhelming dominance in this field followed by walther and elmiger & gruening (who use anshutz barrels and actions in some of their rifles) there are lot of other manufacturers who custom built the rifles at a much higher price than the factory built available off the shelf out of the box "Annie" and most find it hard to compete with her:
there is a saying in smallbore shooting : "if u dont shoot an annie -wait ill u r beaten by someone who does and then u will get urself an annie" donno who coined it but here is the link to their results page:

http://jga.anschuetz-sport.com/index.ph ... &sprache=1
deleted but this info I am posting below in not 'unsubstantiated' it is given at the bottom of the above link:


"ANSCHÜTZ rifles are the best in every catagory. I hate it when I buy an American rifle and have to send it out for trigger work, or any gunsmithing to make it more accurate. ANSCHÜTZ rifles are ready to shoot right out of the box." Shawn McEwan, USA

I am more than just happy with my 1730D-HB. I am astonished! Before the barrel was even broke in, I was getting 1/4" groups at 96 yards with a not so ideal bench with S&B 22hornet sp. I brag about the quality of your rifles to all of my benchrest friends. I have collected CZ for a few years, yours are better. Have a good year in sales!" Chad Finley, USA


"Your workmanship is excellent. This gives not only great accuracy, but pride in owning and displaying your products." Gary Rexroat, USA


"I think your target rifles are the best" Adam Stephens, Australia


"The target rifle repair service at the BISLEY annual meeting is very good! My bolt had a fault which was rectified in time for me to complete a final competition. Many thanks to ANSCHÜTZ!" Brian Taylor, England


"I am very satisfied with the way I´ve been handled by the employees, and I find only good things to underline about the ANSCHÜTZ company!" Lancu Radu, Romania

anways thats what ppl say about em )

now on to the fodder used in these :

only three names come to the top when u talk about sb competition ammo: ELEY & RWS & LAPUA (Shonebeck of germany was also very popular but they have been bought out by Lapua and the ammo produced in the plant is now sold as Lapua) I remember using black colored shonebeck LG 12 GA(LG shotshells are banned.If you have to write about shooting LG shotshells please mention when this was done) in my college days out at my farm - Damn good shells had loads of good results with those .


Eley is the manufacturer of the famous Eley 10X ultimate ammo
http://eley.co.uk/olympic_rifle.htm

Lapua is the manufacturer of the equally famous Midas ammo:
http://www.lapua.com/index.php?id=897

RWS is another famous brand

www.rws-munition.de/en/
Mostly smallbore shooters also use acessories made by a german company called GEHMANN - they r very famous for their quality producrs u can chk them on the web.

BIG BORE RIFLE: 300 M

Over the past few years the venerable .308 win has been edged out by the 6mm br cartridge in this sport and also at longer ranges too.. the most commonly used rifles in big bore besides any rifle with a heavy barrel that catches ur fancy and can mount peep sights are in no specify order:
Tanner, grunig &Elmiger , Sig, Blaser, Keppeler, Alpine, bleiker, mauser, walther ,Kricho,steyer besides these there are a host of other custom manufacturers but the above mix is ready to shoot straight out of the box match grade performance.

chk out www.gruenel.ch for their future target range of rifles and also www.Blaser.de for their revelutionary straight pull action ! with easily interchangable barrels this rifle has won rifle of the year for the past wo consecutive years ! mostly the LRSII or Tactical II is used in the comps.

AMMO: Lapua is the clear leader here followed by Norma and RWS , In europe most shooters who can afford /or whose govt. does not allow reloading shoot these brands. In fact the match ammo made by these companies is so good that expert handloaders are hard pressed to try and beat them! a normal shooter or handlaoder cannot even come close to them and most of the loaders use Lapua /Norma brass and their powders! and in some case thier bullets too ;)http://www.lapua.com/index.php?id=910 chk out this comprehensive site for all info on their rifle and pistol carts ,velocities etc etc

http://www.norma.cc/sida/eng/index.html
www.rws-munition.de/en/


deleted this link to the lapua clearly shows the overwhelming dominence of this factory loaded ammo in the international arena : xcuse me but I cant resist posting some of their the acheivements page here:

http://www.lapua.com/index.php?id=893 : at this page u will find their acheivements from 1930 to date - yes its not a typo it IS 1930


2006
ISSF World cup finals in Granada, Spain 2-8 October 2006


• Gold Medal, 25m Pistol Women, Otryad Gundegmaa
• Bronze Medal, 50m 3-positions rifle Women, Sonja Pfeilschifter


300m European Cup Final in Winterthur

Lapua was used to win all gold medals in the competition, additionally 14 out ot 18 medals were shot with Lapua 6mm BR.


CISM military shooting World Championship games 2006, Elverum, Norway


Team Norway was the best in the CISM military shooting World Championship games in Elverum, Norway (Military Rapid Fire Rifle Men Team Competition). All team members used the Lapua´s 6mm BR cartridges. Lapua congratulates the winners and hopes for success in upcoming competitions as well.


Lapua was the most used cartridge brand in the CISM games in 2006.

man the acheivments page of this company does drive one green with envy - A factory process outshooting nearlly ALL HANDLOADERS and the rest dependant on them for the brass ,powder and bullets hatts off

Norma is also a very strong contender with very impressive results:
http://www.norma.cc/sida/eng/index.html

so is RWS:
www.rws-munition.de/en/

There are also a handfull of american companies which are very good like : Fedral, Blackhills ,PMC - to name a few but Fedral is considered to be the best factory rifle match round in the US.

I think if u go through the above info u will certainly have a better understanding of the sport and will not have to re-invent the wheel trying to figure out what stuff is commonly used.


Shutzen,you were yellow carded for a specific purpose and asked to clean up your posts.This not only applies to old posts but all the ones that you are going to make in the future.I have deleted what was obviously written to povoke.Keep this in mind when making future posts.penpusher

Shutzen,

Thanks for the information.BTW,the authenticated sources of information that you mention are the sites of the manufacturers themselves.You can hardly expect them to give an unbiased opinion of their products.I am sure there are as many people critical of their products as are appreciative of them.A further search might throw up a more balanced opinion of the 2 companies, Anschutz and Lapua and also what is counted as being the best, currently.

penpusher

penpusher";p="21961 wrote:Shutzen,

BTW,the authenticate sources of information that you mention are the sites of the manufacturers themselves.You can hardly expect them to give an unbiased opinion of their products.I am sure there are as many people critical of their products as are appreciative of them.A further search might throw up a more balanced opinion of the 2 companies, Anschutz and Lapua and also what is counted as being the best, currently.

penpusher

HI! penpusher most of these companies are in the business since a century to a century and a half. Whatever accolades they r claiming are based on the positions and medals obtained by athlethes using their equip. Its very well documented by event, place,date,competition and positions. The law for making false misleading claims being what it is abroad and I bet the competitiors will not let the other guy add another feather in the cap without raising a stink and a lawsuit to boot there is no reason to doubt the credibility of the info. However in the typical indian babu fashion we can always ask them to furnish a affidavit

Duly attested by a Class I Magistrate and not a notary,in my case.

penpusher

Shutzen,

The views given on the Anschutz are highly subjective opinions fo various individuals and can hardly be considered as the basis on which a person can decide that their rifles are the best.

Re.Lapua,I am sure that they make good ammunition,but considering that we are talking about a period from 1930 (a 77 year period) the pickings are pretty slim.Especially considering the no. of competitions that take place the world over ,ISSF and non-ISSF.After all a competitor in any shooting sport, only looks for one thing and that is accuracy,in the ammunition that he/she uses.The only difference between ISSF and non-ISSF sports is the rules that govern them and the type of events that take place.

penpusher

If there is any doubt as to the authenticity of the claims made by manufacturers, here are a few footnotes to take into consideration. (legal litigation aside).

Each major manufacturer has a publicity and marketing department, actively engaged in getting their weapons noticed by sports shooters and they all keep a very good tab on each other activities ... and any unethical practices would surely be brought to the end users notice (im sure a lot of athletes would have moral issues with unethical equipment manufacturers)

case in point when Wifu Wang switched from shooting his Steyr to a Morini all the Steyr flyer's with him photographed with his Olympic medals dissapeared completely .. even though the medal was won with a steyr pistol.

Another ... a lot of claims have been made as regarding the Steyr LP10 dominating the air pistol market in terms of medals won and the number of shooters seen firing them at International events, however never has there been any direct advertising at these venues by Anchultz claiming their products to be better than Steyr, because they manufacture and assemble most of the critical parts of the Steyr LP10.

doubt it ... remove the grip of any recent Steyr LP10 manufactured in the last 18 months .. you'll see the Anchultz logo emblazoned on the side of the frame. This is because the weapon is designed and patented by Steyr even though Anchultz manufactures many parts and assembles it - but you dont see Anchultz claiming a Steyr shooters medals to be theirs.

HI! Steyrshot nice reply mate thanks for filling in the Pistol part of the sport .

Donno why but certain ppl here seem very averse to using European arms and ammo for comp. purposes. They intensly seem to dislike the dominant position of the europeans in this field - for me the guns are just tools whoever can make a proven & tested one at a decent price with ease of repairability and easy supply of spares gets my vote and patronage what r ur views on the above ?

To all,
Everyone is entitled on his/ her opinion, so long as they voice their opinion as an opinion. When something is claimed as fact, it should be backed up by verifiable proof... this goes as much for someone mooting a product/ brand as it does for someone claiming otherwise... if it is not backed by proof then it is simply an opinion... I think everyone here is smart enough to see the difference between both.

People do keep in mind that no brand/ co. is infallible and it is simply pointless to think/ claim otherwise. Think of any big brand in any field and you will have those that think it is the best and those that think it is simply not good enough/ terrible... whatever... These are all just opinions of individuals - both ways... and each is entitled to hold his/ her opinion, so long as we don't try to go around trying to impose our opinions on each other!

That said, it is a fact that most ISSF shooters use European equipment... I'd have to say that they do so because it helps them win... if it was a handicap for them in any way, we would see people shift to other makes/ models rather rapidly!

Also, it should be noted that just because a particular rifle is the best 50m rifle, it does not mean that it is the best rifle overall... it simply means that it is the best one (or most often one of the best ones) for this particular job at hand (50m)... I know this is pretty obvious to most - just putting it in anyway.... A good example of this is that the air-rifles used for 10m air-rifle shooting are NOT the same models used for HFT/ FT which is shot at greater distances... some of the manufacturers overlap - but not all, and the models are completely different for the different task at hand.

So gentlemen - agree to disagree and chill, it simply aint worth fighting about...

Cheers!
Abhijeet

To answer you question shutzen ... I have to agree with you, even though one may admire the quality and sophistication, even the technology and state of the art manufacturing process of some of these weapons .. in the end they do become tools of the trade for the top shooters.

When you consider the scores being shot with these weapons at ISSF world cups currently, its easy to gauge that the word "reputation" we use for many of these firearms is acquired in a trial by fire process in varying temperature and weather conditions.

Consider that in a 50 meter prone rifle event 600/600 has been shot regularly ... i just finished watching an ISSF.TV dvd in which the top two shooters both had 600/600 and it went down to the second last shot in the finals before a winner emerged.

In the end we all have to realize these are veterans who have a whole menagerie of support people, coaches, armorers, custom fitters etc behind them .. and they have tried every legal trick in the book to get an edge over their rivals, and have finally settled down to one choice for their equipment.

When that one choice happens to a particular brand like Anchultz and you see it in the hands of 5 or 6 of the top 8 finalists in a world cup .. you have to nod your head and say hmmm .. there must be something about that product.