Indians For Guns

Seems like a very difficult choice to make between choosing the Hammerli FP-60 and the Morini CM-84E Free Pistols.

The second question is whether Mechanical as in the Hammerli or Electronic, as in the Morini.

Thinking in the Indian context is important as servicing issues need to be taken into account...

Would welcome any opinions from learned friends here !

Regards,

Dear Olly,

In addition to what I had written in a different post for you...

I have a acquired a Swiss made 2nd hand Hämmerli FP60 (not the current Walther made one) recently (although waiting to file my demand for a license) and I am pretty satisfied with it. The only complaint it has from different fora is that it's aluminium frame tends to wear out because steel screws are directly milled inside the aluminium frame (steel on alu seems to be eating out the alu). But if proper care is taken, it should not be that much an issue.

I would add on a few more remarks.
- The FP60 has a sharp rake angle which many do not like. There is a possibility of adjusting this angle to a max of 5%. The Morini is completely different and those who like the angle of Morini, generally do not like the one on FP60 and vice versa.
- The CM84E comes with a compensator, which needs to be cleaned regularly and it is a headache. If not cleaned regularly, lead deposits and gunk are difficult to remove later on.
The new FP60 has also a compensator which means that it has also to be cleaned. But the comp looks easier to clean without dismantling. My FP60 (old swiss made) does not have any comp and hence no additional pain .
- I had to get one of the grip nut (right side) replaced on my FP60 because, being very thin it was broken by the past owner while tightening too much the grip screw. So, the the right side grip screw has to be handled carefully and just tightened without much force.
- The factory made FP60 grip does not have a rave review at least on the earlier ones (made by Nill). I do not know about the Walther made new FP60s. The Morini grip is appreciated by all.
- The trigger adjustment screws made of steel are directly milled inside the aluminium frame on the FP60. This tends to the risk of the aluminium being eaten out by the steel screws if too much fiddled with for the adjustments. Some say that the fine adjustments also might get changed with time because of that.
For my part, I have adjusted my trigger and I do not touch them any more. In a critical situation, I can very well put a drop of nail polish to fix the screws without jamming them permanenetly.

Now, I will talk about my short experience with my FP60 (about 1000 shots till now). I simply love this gun because I am basically a great fan of Hâmmerli ( I shoot also with the AP40 air pistol). I prefer the mechanical trigger and I just love the trigger blade with the O ring on it. It has a nice feeling and it helps me to find the trigger finger placement exactly (muscle memory). The gun is very well balanced, and I do not use any extra weight on it. The maintenance is very simple. The accuracy does not need any more introduction (factory claims 16mm grouping of 10 shots at 50m during test firing). You can do unlimited dryfiring by just engaging the hair trigger.

I have shot only a few shots with the Morini. The E trigger was very surprising for me perhaps because it was adjusted at a very light weight, too light for me.

You have the pros and cons of the FP60. Hope it helps.

best regards
tirpassion

Thanks for the detailed writeup...

Since I use the Morini AP, I am used to the sights and the grip. So I might have a bias there !

There has been no problem with the electronic circuitry and I'd give 100 / 100 for this AP. Hence, need more arguments on the Electronic vs Mechanical.

Cleaning the compensators should not be that big a issue, as by that exercise, one would be forced to oil the pistol too !!

I like the 'O' ring on the Hammerli and intend putting on one on the Morini, if that becomes the gun of choice ! Sounds stupid some what but I fully understand the advantages of the rubber 'stop' for the trigger finger.

A big question remains - why does one have to have a 'hair' trigger on the Free Pistol ? There is no mandated trigger pressure, unlike the AP. Since we are used to the 2 stage trigger pull of the AP, why not have the same on the FP ??

And, WHICH AMMO suits best at the 50m match competitions ? Choices are between Lapua SK Magazine, Lapua Pistol King, Eley Pistol, Eley Tenex and Eley Pistol.
They say that the FPS makes a difference - a higher FPS = higher recoil = more fatigue / inaccuracy. Is it true ?
And, a slower round is less diverted by windage compared to a faster round. Since this ammo is only to be used for 50m competitions, and not knocking down anything, the ideal choice of FPS etc. makes sense !!

These are thoughts that come to my mind...

hello again,

The Morini AP is termed by experts as the most forgiving of the APs while the LP10 is the most unforgiving. In the highest level of international competitions, the LP10s are the most used ones followed by the Morini. On the contrary the Morini FP is far from being forgivingl. Yet the Morini FP is in majority in the highest level followed by the TOZ35. Incidentally, the TOZ35 is termed as the most forgiving of FPs.. Curious user behaviour....

The fact that there is similarity in sights and the grip angle should be ample reason to stick to the Morini FP for you. Moreover, the Morini FP has a optional version with a 2 stage trigger. Just get enough information about the after sales service of the electronic trigger by Morini in India.
The FP60 can also be adjusted to have a 2 stage trigger if you put the trigger weight on the higher side.

best regards
tirpassion

Edit/addition: I have never understood either why the trigger weight is so less on a FP. The FP60 can be adjusted from 10 to 100g max. I have adjusted the weight to the max because I am comfortable with a higher weight. If possible I would yearn for more weight. But alas!!!!

One word - Morini

Hi olly,

Pardon me if its OT here.

I dont have expertise on anyone of these pistols.
But, I believe you are going to achieve much more with whatever you choose.

At this time , with your achivement in picture, I need only olly's determination

On a lighter note,

Now, only one thing comes to my mind is one brand to buy, 'OLLY PISTOL'.

Regards.

I just missed on my 2 cents on the ammunitions.

And, WHICH AMMO suits best at the 50m match competitions ? Choices are between Lapua SK Magazine, Lapua Pistol King, Eley Pistol, Eley Tenex and Eley Pistol.
They say that the FPS makes a difference - a higher FPS = higher recoil = more fatigue / inaccuracy. Is it true ?
And, a slower round is less diverted by windage compared to a faster round. Since this ammo is only to be used for 50m competitions, and not knocking down anything, the ideal choice of FPS etc. makes sense !!

The costliest of the ammo will not give the best of the points. So, for my standard in shooting, I go for the price first. I go for an ammo which will chamber well and will be easy to extract after the shot. I abandoned the cheaply priced CCI Standard although it worked quite well on my FP60 because of the said reason.
Then I came across the SK Standard plus which I am using with a lot of pleasure both for shooting and the wallet (4 Euros = Rs. 280 for a box of 50). The equivalent is more or less the SK Magazine. If your means permit, the Lapua Pistol King is excellent value for money (It costs 8 Euros for a box of 50 here). I have never used the Eley ammo because of the cost factor (even the cheapest Eley ammo is costlier than the top grade SK brand ammo). For me, the SK brand, manufactured by Lapua, is of high quality at a very reasonable price and I intend to stick to it.

For the velocity, I understand that any standard velocity ammo is good for the FP. By standard velocity I mean 320 to 330 m/s from a 66cm barrel or 280 to 285 m/s from a 15cm barrel. All the ammo you mentioned fall in this category of standard velocity. The priority for target shooting is the regularity of the ammo; the powder charge, the projectile weight, the rate of combustion of the powder etc. It is evident that costlier ammo will have better level of regularity.
The recoil factor is important for the 'Call'. If the ammo is more powerful, the recoil will be stronger and more difficult will it be to make a good 'call'. Hence, one will hardly understand and analyze his/her own shooting.

Just thought of adding one more word. I have never had any misfire till date on my FP60 with any ammo I used (SK, Lapua & CCI).


best regards
tirpassion

only32owner wrote:Hi olly,

Pardon me if its OT here.

I dont have expertise on anyone of these pistols.
But, I believe you are going to achieve much more with whatever you choose.

At this time , with your achivement in picture, I need only olly's determination

On a lighter note,

Now, only one thing comes to my mind is one brand to buy, 'OLLY PISTOL'.

Regards.

Sorry, guess I missed out on this post.. !! Thank you for the kind words !!

I guess I don't put my hand into too many events at one time. I pick up just one event during a year and try and give it my best. Surprisingly it works...

It took me about 5-6 months from 0 to Renowned Shot in the 10m pistol; and about 3-4 months from 0 to Renowned Shot in Free Pistol ! I don't listen too much to chatter, except the basics and characteristics of the weapon itself. Rest - I trust myself and my ability. Ofcourse I do learn 'on the job' - I analyse my mistakes and remember them, and take care not to repeat them...

I'd say the same words to any budding shooter --- TRUST YOURSELF AND YOUR ABILITY.

Tirpassion,
Thanks for sharing your experience.... will be able to revert with more as and when I can lay my hands on something other than SK Magazine (Lapua) and try it out.... !

You need to be comfortable with your pistol mentally and physically, whichever be the brand. The same goes for the ammo, try out different brands and make up your mind. Having done that, you will be free to focus entirely on your shooting.